Italy : ma che cazzo hai fatto ?

The Rape of Lucretia

Italy votes against economic reform. Follows the Brexit/Trump tendency for populist protest voting - whether it is good for them or not. Italians have spurned a splendid opportunity, by a truly reforming prime minister, to overhaul a non fit for purpose political structure.
And plunge Italy, and Europe, into further turmoil.
Serious problems ahead now for Italy. Bailouts, rescue packages, bankrupt banks.
Talk about turkeys voting for Christmas. Even the turkeys wouldnt have been this stupid.

The flying mouse

Will our chippers stay open ?

The world is changing, the peasants are revolting and the elites look on worryingly.

hannible the cannible

Yes that's the spirit ,keep telling the people how fcuking stupid they are , it's worked a treat so far

Iwasfrozen

hannible the cannible wrote: »

Yes that's the spirit ,keep telling the people how fcuking stupid they are , it's worked a treat so far

If the cap fits...

hannible the cannible

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

If the cap fits...

A one size fits all kind of cap

The Rape of Lucretia

hannible the cannible wrote: »

Yes that's the spirit ,keep telling the people how fcuking stupid they are , it's worked a treat so far

The truth can no longer be sugar coated, and the reality must be faced. It is time for them to face up to the mistakes that they are making with such madcap voting. They have to learn that this petulant voting incompetence, where, given a say in democracy, and a vote in a referendum, they then dont in fact vote on the issue being put to them, but decide they will protest vote, fall to the lies of ignorant crowd pleasers, or, 'send a message' to the government.
If you cannot vote responsibly, you do not deserve to have a vote, or deserve the troubles such self indulgent voting will bring.
Time to call a spade a spade on this nonsense. It may be unpleasant, but in the longer term, its for their own good.

deco nate

Yea, let's have dictatorships all round. sure it's the only way to go....

The Wolverine

hannible the cannible wrote: »

Yes that's the spirit ,keep telling the people how fcuking stupid they are , it's worked a treat so far

No please let them keep doing it, I want to see what the faces of the sneering elite look like compared to the sneering French aristocrats when the normal man affected by their actions turned on 'em

Annasopra

At least Austria saw sense

hannible the cannible

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

The truth can no longer be sugar coated, and the reality must be faced. It is time for them to face up to the mistakes that they are making with such madcap voting. They have to learn that this petulant voting incompetence, where, given a say in democracy, and a vote in a referendum, they then dont in fact vote on the issue being put to them, but decide they will protest vote, fall to the lies of ignorant crowd pleasers, or, 'send a message' to the government.
If you cannot vote responsibly, you do not deserve to have a vote, or deserve the troubles such self indulgent voting will bring.
Time to call a spade a spade on this nonsense. It may be unpleasant, but in the longer term, its for their own good.

Wow , so much dictatorship qualities in one post

The Wolverine

Quick find a few Italian elites to say it was an advisory referendum only and not binding :pac:

Yourself isit

hannible the cannible wrote: »

Yes that's the spirit ,keep telling the people how fcuking stupid they are , it's worked a treat so far

It's been a mistake allowing proletarians to vote tbh

The Rape of Lucretia

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

The truth can no longer be sugar coated, and the reality must be faced. It is time for them to face up to the mistakes that they are making with such madcap voting. They have to learn that this petulant voting incompetence, where, given a say in democracy, and a vote in a referendum, they then dont in fact vote on the issue being put to them, but decide they will protest vote, fall to the lies of ignorant crowd pleasers, or, 'send a message' to the government.
If you cannot vote responsibly, you do not deserve to have a vote, or deserve the troubles such self indulgent voting will bring.
Time to call a spade a spade on this nonsense. It may be unpleasant, but in the longer term, its for their own good.

Said the elite...

RobertKK

What is wrong with a dictatorship?

Sure our own Michael D was giving a glowing praise of Fidel Castro last week...



I think he is deluded.

Yourself isit

Time to dissolve the people and elect another.

AllGunsBlazing

This only becomes a potential flashpoint if Renzi does what he claimed he would do, if defeated, and resigns. I suspect there'll be a lot of pressure from Brussels and Berlin for him to suck it up and tough it out for at least a few months.

AllGunsBlazing

AllGunsBlazing wrote: »

This only becomes a potential flashpoint if Renzai does what he claimed he would do, if defeated, and resigns. I suspect there'll be a lot of pressure from Brussels and Berlin for him to suck it up and tough it out for at least a few months.

Churchill once said, "if you're going through hell, keep going!"

The Wolverine

AllGunsBlazing wrote: »

This only becomes a potential flashpoint if Renzai does what he claimed he would do, if defeated, and resigns. I suspect there'll be a lot of pressure from Brussels and Berlin for him to suck it up and tough it out for at least a few months.

I'd be surprised if he does, you usually have a hard time pulling a pigs snout out of the trough when there's still something in it for them

RobertKK

Matteo Renzi will be told, it is close to Christmas, we wants our holidays, hold on...

The Rape of Lucretia

Yourself isit wrote: »

It's been a mistake allowing proletarians to vote tbh

Its well intentioned, but the chickens are coming home to roost now alright.
Things will get worse before people realise the error of their ways and change.
It would seem we are overoptimistic about the voting capabilities of the common man. As a principal though, I wouldnt give up on it just yet. Education, communication, public information campaigns on the responsibilities of suffrage, and so on, could help the situation. Something is urgently needed.

meeeeh

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

The truth can no longer be sugar coated, and the reality must be faced. It is time for them to face up to the mistakes that they are making with such madcap voting. They have to learn that this petulant voting incompetence, where, given a say in democracy, and a vote in a referendum, they then dont in fact vote on the issue being put to them, but decide they will protest vote, fall to the lies of ignorant crowd pleasers, or, 'send a message' to the government.
If you cannot vote responsibly, you do not deserve to have a vote, or deserve the troubles such self indulgent voting will bring.
Time to call a spade a spade on this nonsense. It may be unpleasant, but in the longer term, its for their own good.

The vote was a about senate reform (sounds familiar?). Nobody forced Renzzi to make it about himself. Besides considering how Italy had certain Benito in power for quite a while and how it is country of different regions it is understanding that they are also reluctant to give more power to centralized government. Votes about very technical but significant changes of political system are hard to get through anywhere even if the old system is not working.

Donal55

Its like Everton's equaliser.
Austria 1 Italy 1.

Yourself isit

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Its well intentioned, but the chickens are coming home to roost now alright.
Things will get worse before people realise the error of their ways and change.
It would seem we are overoptimistic about the voting capabilities of the common man.

There will be a golf club led revolution to end the common man's tyranny. I have no doubts of its success.

emo72

When you make it so bad, that turkeys are delighted to vote for Christmas, then things are really bad.

A Little Pony

The EU is doomed. I think the EU should slowly wind it down slowly and allow these countries to be independent sovreign nations once again. The people will take it either democratically via elections or by the bullet.

Donal55

Merkel going next year will be the icing on the cake.

ceadaoin.

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

It would seem we are overoptimistic about the voting capabilities of the common man. As a principal though, I wouldnt give up on it just yet. Education, communication, public information campaigns on the responsibilities of suffrage, and so on, could help the situation. Something is urgently needed.

Maybe reeducation camps would do the trick?

twill

It seems to me that opinion was divided evenly among political parties, trade unions and media, with a mixture of right and left on both platforms. The referendum looks like a mass of poorly planned and thought out proposals, and the attempt to centralise power, while very much along approved EU lines, would rightly have worried many.

meeeeh

twill wrote: »

It seems to me that opinion was divided evenly among political parties, trade unions and media, with a mixture of right and left on both platforms. The referendum looks like a mass of poorly planned and thought out proposals, and the attempt to centralise power, while very much along approved EU lines, would rightly have worried many.

Oh sush with sensible comments. It was the vote on end of EU and a wet dream of every Farage cheer leader coming through.

KingBrian2

Never hold a referendum if you don't know the result.

batistuta9

How come until now there was no threads on this referendum or the Austrian election, would they not be of more concern to Ireland than the american election?

The Rape of Lucretia

Good speech from Renzi. He is spot on on the point of it being very easy to be 'against', much more difficult to move to change and improve things. Criticism of the system for decades, then when offered a chance to reform it, the anti brigade shoots it down.

And resigns. Fecking hell.

hotwhiskey

Italian PM resigns.

Watch the Euro Free Fall tomorrow.

The Rape of Lucretia

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Maybe reeducation camps would do the trick?

You may be tempted to such ideas, but without doubt, too far. Some political education in schools, and general improvement in education levels, more likely. It will take time though.

Halloween Jack

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

The truth can no longer be sugar coated, and the reality must be faced. It is time for them to face up to the mistakes that they are making with such madcap voting. They have to learn that this petulant voting incompetence, where, given a say in democracy, and a vote in a referendum, they then dont in fact vote on the issue being put to them, but decide they will protest vote, fall to the lies of ignorant crowd pleasers, or, 'send a message' to the government.
If you cannot vote responsibly, you do not deserve to have a vote, or deserve the troubles such self indulgent voting will bring.
Time to call a spade a spade on this nonsense. It may be unpleasant, but in the longer term, its for their own good.

Hahaha, I haven't such deluded self aggrandising drivel in ages!

Who are you to presume to tell the Italian people what's for their own good? Or decide who's vote is incompetent or self indulgent?

Keep calling a spade a spade for yourself....

Little CuChulainn

Deleted User wrote: »

The world is changing, the peasants are revolting and the elites look on worryingly.

Elites like Trump? Yeah I'm sure they are terrified as he fills his top positions with the most useless of rich people. Maybe we should install Dennis O Brein as Taoiseach and really show the rich folk what's what.

A Little Pony

Isn't talk of Italy leaving the Euro now on the cards? This is great news.

AllGunsBlazing

What a load of self indulgent waffle that was. Next victim please!

hotwhiskey

hotwhiskey wrote: »

Italian PM resigns.

Watch the Euro Free Fall tomorrow.

It already took a hit when the exit polls were announced.

The Rape of Lucretia

An upside is that it leaves one serious operator available for a or the top EU job in the next few years. Italy's loss may well be....

Yourself isit

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

You may be tempted to such ideas, but without doubt, too far. Some political education in schools, and general improvement in education levels, more likely. It will take time though.

Political education in schools sounds pretty totalitarian.

The Italians are well educated. If they are voting contra to their interests it's because they are unhappy with the status quo. Given the unemployment rate and the general malaise in the economy that makes sense.

If ruling elites don't want radicalism they should run the place better.

Donal55

A Little Pony wrote: »

Isn't talk of Italy leaving the Euro now on the cards? This is great news.

Even if they all left the € our gang would still remain.

batistuta9

Donal55 wrote: »

Even if they all left the € our gang would still remain.

Single market

hotwhiskey

Deleted User wrote: »

It already took a hit when the exit polls were announced.

Euro already free falling on Asia markets.

Patser

RobertKK wrote: »

Matteo Renzi will be told, it is close to Christmas, we wants our holidays, hold on...

He must have missed that call.

ThisRegard

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The world is changing, the peasants are revolting and the elites look on worryingly.

Anyone with s bit if common sense is an elite (poxy phrase that it is) now?

Yourself isit

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Elites like Trump? Yeah I'm sure they are terrified as he fills his top positions with the most useless of rich people. Maybe we should install Dennis O Brein as Taoiseach and really show the rich folk what's what.

He's not part of the elite nexus that runs the US.
And he's running against the neo liberal concensus. That's what has failed the west.

Yourself isit

ThisRegard wrote: »

Anyone with s bit if common sense is an elite (poxy phrase that it is) now?

That wouldn't be the definition of elites. Although elites do generate common sense.

Spanish Eyes

I don't know where the surprise at Renzi's resignation is coming from, I thought he said he would if he lost the referendum.

No surprise to me, only admiration for following through.

AllGunsBlazing

KingBrian2 wrote: »

Never hold a referendum if you don't know the result.

Or at least brazen enough to keep holding them until you get the desired result.