Minimum alcohol pricing is nigh

La Madame

I would be interested to know. Who are or were the main players around MUP? Are paid Lobbyists like Alcohol Action Ireland that strong here?

Was the International Alcohol Producers Lobby so weak ? Is Ireland a test country for the WHO?

Which way did it take exactly through the Institutions? Main Players, People, Parties?

Why was the response of the Irish Public so weak?

It is a political Topic and I do not think that MUP can be abolished for the moment. Prohibition was 10 years in place.

One last word for Comfort: No Civilisation without Alcohol. 12000 years ago Mankind settled to cultivate Barley to brew Beer.

Happy New Year ! I hope you enjoy your imported or Home Brewed Pints

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121555052#Comment_121555052

The lobbies were AAI, publicans and the association that represents independent off licenses.

The independent off licenses were lobbying because they were being heavily undercut by the big supermarkets.

The response from the Irish public was weak because in reality the price of alcohol is not that big a deal for people.

Posters here have been saying for years that there will be a big backlash over MUP and/or that they would organize some sort of boycott of pubs because of it etc, but nothing of the sort has materialized.

The public anger about MUP just seems to exist in the heads of a certain number of posters here

In real terms alcohol is much cheaper than it was 30 years ago, and people know that.

You mentioned that it took prohibition 10 years to be repealed, this is not prohibition, people can still buy alcohol and it would be a massive cultural change for the country to introduce prohibition.

Mr. teddywinkles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121555222#Comment_121555222

Sure a shite doesn't feel that way. And I was drinking 30 years ago.

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121555268#Comment_121555268

Back in the mid 90s a can in an off license was about IR£1.

Now it's not much more expensive and the wage levels are way above what they were in the mid 90s.

VinLieger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121555052#Comment_121555052

The college of physicians were a big lobby for it too and gave the vintners et al cover via a pretense of it being about health when in reality it was always and only about money.

VinLieger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121555222#Comment_121555222

In real terms alcohol is not cheaper than it was 30 years ago because if it was we would be as cheap as the rest of Europe and we are nowhere close.

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121555296#Comment_121555296

It doesn't matter about the rest of Europe, I'm talking about the relative price in Ireland over the last few decades

Here is a graph from a report by Sheffield University on alcohol affordability in Ireland since 2003.

The graph shows the affordability, the higher the line the more affordable.

The blueish line is off license alcohol.

Here is the full report

Alcohol-Affordability-Ireland.pdf

Seve OB

Pound a pint night was popular in a few places in mid to late 90’s. That’s equivalent to €1.27 without factoring in inflation.

our normal nights out would often be a few cans before going to pub. Except pound a pint night as I distinctly remember it was a cheaper than pint than buying a can in an off licence.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121555222#Comment_121555222

Just for the record I am annoyed about MUP on my own behalf.

As a modest drinker I strongly object to paying €200 to €300 a year extra for enjoying a few drinks in my own home.

I am annoyed all the more by knowing that the lion's share of that extra money is going to boost the profits of drinks retailers.

However you are right that this is not prohibition it's neo prohibition.

https://www.wineenthusiast.com/culture/non-alcoholic/alcohol-smoking-debate/

They are smarter than the prohibitionists of 100 years ago. They don't want to fizzle out after 10 years. They want to have a lasting effect on our drinking habits using price to force us to drink less.

They will keep chipping away in the background, producing research and lobbying politicians.

If you can afford it you can drink away to your heart's content. Pints in nice pubs, fine wine in fancy restaurants, expensive brandy in front of a roaring fire.

If you are struggling to make ends meet it's a different story.

Unfortunately for now they have the ear of all the politicians, government and opposition alike so our chance of overturning this policy is almost nil.

I am a realist, I understand the odds, that doesn't mean I will ever accept MUP.

VinLieger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121555326#Comment_121555326

Firstly I don't trust anything that comes out of sheffield regarding alcohol. They have in my opinion a proven bias and incredibly poor modeling basis.

Secondly let's just for fun say it's even partially true, for that entire time frame our consumption has been consistently dropping year over year so why exactly should we be concerned with cheaper off trade alcohol if weve been consistently drinking less as it got cheaper?

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121555852#Comment_121555852

Firstly I don't trust anything that comes out of sheffield regarding alcohol. They have in my opinion a proven bias and incredibly poor modeling basis.

Why am I not one bit surprised with that answer.

Don't like the results, blame the authors.

VinLieger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121555860#Comment_121555860

Don't like the question, don't answer it?

Also I've done my research on sheffield and read many of their reports. Ones like where they base their entire MUP assumptions and modeling off a minute test case of a small rural town in Canada.....

Gusser09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121555860#Comment_121555860

Its a bullshit test case. Fabricated on assumptions.

We need to compare ourselves to germany and other EU countries who havent introduced MUP.

Make no mistake its not prohibition but its the next best thing for AAI.

ArmaniJeanss

1980s Quinnsworth ad with 3 yellow pack beers for £2 (€2.54). Presumably this would have been close to the cheapest on the market at the time (~40 years ago).

Quinnsworth! | Weekend deals, Irish party, Irish (pinterest.ie)

So I'd agree that off-license beer is far more affordable now than it was 40 years ago. Not sure what that proves though - like it's clearly far less affordable now than it was 5 years ago and our own biases will decide which comparison point we consider relevant.

Gusser09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121557482#Comment_121557482

Is MUP directly contributing to a decline in alcohol related illness and crime?

Thats the ony question that matters.

dxhound2005

It's too soon to tell, and some of the provisions are not commencing until 2026 e.g labelling. The provisions about advertising are subject to a sunset clause. With elections coming up, this would be a good time to lobby politicians. Some evidence from Scotland, but the health advocates there want to increase the MUP and have automatic increases in line with inflation.

Has Minimum Unit Pricing (MUP) been effective?

The evidence so far April 2023

Summary Minimum unit pricing for alcohol (MUP) was implemented in May 2018 at a rate of 50p per unit.

The policy is subject to a sunset clause, which means it will lapse unless renewed by the Scottish Parliament by end of April 2024.

Evaluation so far provides: • Strong evidence that MUP has delivered on its intended aim of reducing overall population consumption in Scotland, with a 3% decrease in alcohol sales. • Promising indications that it has reduced consumption by hazardous and harmful drinkers, though this is less conclusive. • Strong evidence that the policy has delivered its overall purpose of reducing alcohol related harm, with 268 lives saved and 899 hospital admissions averted each year, on average. MUP may have mitigated some of the pandemic’s negative effects, as the rise in deaths since the pandemic in Scotland was not as sharp as in England. MUP remains an essential component of Scotland’s alcohol strategy to reduce our high levels of alcohol consumption and harm. However, the effect of 50p per unit has been significantly eroded by inflation since the legislation was passed in 2012.

SHAAP and AFS recommend that the MUP is uprated to at least 65p per unit, and a mechanism is introduced to automatically uprate the price in the future, to ensure alcohol does not become more affordable. This will optimise the effectiveness of MUP in saving and improving lives.

Atlantic Dawn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121557482#Comment_121557482

Same could be said about soft drinks, both those with sugar and those sugar free with the cancer agent Aspartame (which somehow has been given a lower tax rate, is that to kill us on the cheap?). I recall in the 80's a can of Coke was circa 35p in supermarkets, it's pretty much that now in multi packs being sold at 24 for €10.

bog master

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121557608#Comment_121557608

And from one year earlier! My Repost btw.

An interesting read, but one tidbit!

1

Evaluating the impact of Minimum

Unit Pricing in Scotland on people

who are drinking at harmful levels

Final report

7 June 2022

Conclusions

The introduction of a £0.50 MUP in Scotland led to a marked increase in the prices

paid for alcohol by people with alcohol dependence. There is no clear evidence that

this led to reduced alcohol consumption or changes in the severity of alcohol

dependence among people drinking at harmful levels. There is some evidence it

increased financial strain among some economically vulnerable groups but no clear

evidence that it caused wider negative consequences, such as increased criminality,

illicit substance use or acute withdrawal. People with alcohol dependence received

little information or support prior to the introduction of MUP, but there is no clear

evidence this led directly to any harmful outcomes.

https://www.publichealthscotland.scot/media/13486/evaluating-the-impact-of-minimum-unit-pricing-in-scotland-on-people-who-are-drinking-at-harmful-levels-report.pdf

bog master

Oh Oh-seems alcohol sales in Scotland are rising!!!!!

Alcohol sales in 2021

• In 2021, a total of 43.0 million litres of pure alcohol were sold in Scotland
• Consumption rates: In 2021, 9.4 litres (L) of pure alcohol were sold per adult in Scotland, equivalent to 18.1 units per adult per week. Excluding the proportion of the population that does not drink alcohol gives a total consumption figure of 11.3L per adult drinker, rather than 9.4L per adult.
• In 2021, the volume of pure alcohol sold per adult in Scotland was maintained at a similar level to 2020, the lowest level seen over the available time series.
• Comparison: The volume of pure alcohol sold per adult in Scotland in 2021 was 4% higher than in England & Wales.
• Price of alcohol: In 2021, the average price of alcohol sold in the off-trade in Scotland was 64p per unit, an increase from 63p in 2020.
• Type of alcohol: Of the total volume of pure alcohol sold per adult in Scotland in 2021, spirits accounted for 31%, wine for 30%, beer for 29% and cider for 5%.
• Off-trade: In 2021, COVID-19 restrictions affected alcohol sales through on-trade premises (such as pubs, clubs and restaurants). Off-trade premises (supermarkets and other off-licences) sold 85% of all alcohol purchased in 2021 (up from 73% in 2019 but down from 90% in 2020).
• Promotions: 25% of all alcohol (natural volume) sold off-trade through larger multiple retailers (excluding discount retailers) in Scotland was sold on promotion, the same as 2020.

 

Source: The Monitoring and Evaluating Scotland's Alcohol Strategy (MESAS) monitoring reports 2022.

For more information, visit: http://www.alcoholinscotland.info/

Alcohol sales in 2020

• In 2020, a total of 42.5 million litres of pure alcohol were sold in Scotland
• The COVID-19 pandemic had a major impact on individuals’ drinking behaviours and consumption patterns, with an increase in drinking at home and drinking alone.
• Consumption rates: In 2020, 9.4 litres (L) of pure alcohol were sold per adult in Scotland, equivalent to 18.0 units per adult per week. This is the lowest level seen in Scotland over the available time series (1994 onwards). Excluding the proportion of the population that does not drink alcohol gives a total consumption figure of 11.2L per adult drinker, rather than 9.4L per adult.
• In 2020, the volume of pure alcohol sold per adult in Scotland was at the lowest level seen over the available time series. Despite this overall population decrease, death rates increased across the pandemic, indicating that heavy episodic drinking may have increased in certain groups.
• Comparison: The volume of pure alcohol sold per adult in Scotland in 2020 was 6% higher than in England & Wales, the smallest difference seen in the available time series
• Price of alcohol: In 2020, the average price of alcohol sold in the off-trade in Scotland was 63p per unit, an increase from 62p in 2019.
• Type of alcohol: Of the total volume of pure alcohol sold per adult in Scotland in 2020, spirits accounted for 31%, wine for 31%, beer for 27% and cider for 6%.
• Off-trade: 90% of units sold in Scotland in 2020 were sold through the off-trade (in supermarkets and other off-licenses).
• Promotions: 25% of all alcohol (natural volume) sold off-trade through larger multiple retailers (excluding discount retailers) in Scotland was sold on promotion, the same as 2019.

 

Source: The Monitoring and Evaluating Scotland's Alcohol Strategy (MESAS) monitoring reports 2021.

For more information, visit: http://www.alcoholinscotland.info/

Gusser09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121560210#Comment_121560210

And the cave man answer will be to increase MUP.

veryangryman

Why the actual muck do they have to add the recycling cost to the already rip off MUP

Lewis_Benson

I miss 24 cans of 538mls of Guinness for 20 quid.

tjhook

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121714564#Comment_121714564

Heh. Between MUP and the inconvenience being imposed on cans, I've changed from drinking cans of beer to spirits. With the regular special offers, you can get a very decent quality spirit for little over MUP, and no hassle with returning (or paying for) aluminium cans.

I guess this is what the state wants us to do, it's where their policies are nudging us.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121714564#Comment_121714564

TBH I'm relaxed enough about the 15 cent deposit that you get back.

Compared to the price increase of 70 cent a can that you'll never see again imposed by MUP it's a doddle.

Pauliedragon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121560332#Comment_121560332

Or they'll find a way to fudge an answer along the lines of "consumption would've risen a lot more if it wasn't for MUP so it's working" cue backslapping.

bog master

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121717242#Comment_121717242

You do get it back, but you are always out of pocket until you redeem. In my case one trip to town a week, so this week, I paid deposit on my cans of beer and a couple of other items. They have my money until next week until I shop again, get my deposit back and pay another deposit.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121717289#Comment_121717289

Yes, but not to labour the point it's a mere trifle compared to the dreaded MUP.

If you are buying 10 cans a week MUP is costing you about €7 per week that's about €365 per year.

The DRS deposit of €1.50 that you pay on 10 cans on January 1st will cover you for the year.

And if god forbid you decide to go on the dry you can always get it back at the end of December 🙂

bog master

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121717454#Comment_121717454

Understand completely. MUP arises rage in me. Finally get an Aldi in the town I shop in, decent cheap beer. Two months later my 12 pack costing

8.79 is now 18.94. Totally negates the pension rise I got. Feck them. And Scotland's has been a roaring success LOL

Scipri0

I disagree, the "drinking problems" are myths from the government.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121555052#Comment_121555052

The Vintners association definitely had a hand in this lobby effort to bring in MUP. It's not really about protecting people's health. FG goes on about not interfering in the free market, but that's what MUP actually did. People were buying their alcohol in shops instead of going to the pubs, which the pub trade didn't like. You can see from Fine Gaels 2011 manifesto on page 26 under the heading "Keeping Communities Vibrant! it says

Supporting Irish Pubs: Fine Gael recognises the importance of the Irish pub for tourism, rural jobs and as a social outlet in communities across the country. We will support the local pub by banning the practice of below cost selling on alcohol, particularly by large supermarkets and the impact this has had on alcohol consumption and the viability of pubs.

https://issuu.com/exsite/docs/fine_gael_manifesto