Minimum alcohol pricing is nigh

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121877992#Comment_121877992

We were never a popular movement of the sort that would be needed to prevent the introduction of MUP.

The politicians,medical professionals, NGOs, publicans and off licence owners had all the cards.

You can dismiss the thread as bluster if you like but you still like to come along and have your say so you acknowledge that it serves a purpose.

Some things have happened over the last two years.

There is a thread showing special offers in Northern Ireland and people are traveling. Anecdotally it seems there are bargains to be had.

As I said earlier the general public's knowledge of the workings of MUP is patchy to say the least.

Many think it is a tax and few seem to realise that the increase goes to the trade.

Those of us who know the workings of MUP still don't like paying out several hundred euro extra per year just for having few drinks in our own home.

Anyway, nice catching up with you cheers 🍺

Leroy42

The protests about Water charges would suggest that when we get exercised enough we can certainly protest.

So the only conclusion is that there isn't the level of unhappiness about this to do anything about it. Would people prefer it to go away, probably, but it doesn't isn't such a big deal to the majority of people.

You get the same type of claims of unrising each time the price of pint goes up, and nothing ever, ever actually happens. Because, and the political parties all well aware of this, people are too wedded to their drink to actually ever place a boycott. If that had been done from the outset, if people had stopped buying for say a month in both off licences and pubs, then things would have changed but it was never going to happen.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121878177#Comment_121878177

Just another point about MUP and pubs.

I said before MUP was introduced that I thought the publicans tactics were wrong.

They seemed to long for a return to the old days when drinkers by default went to the pub to drink

Their plan was to make home drinking more expensive and then people would decide to return to pubs.

They failed to recognise a long term change in preferences whereby home drinking had become the norm for many. Visits to the pub had become more occasional than regular.

The people who were enjoying their drinks at home were happy with that choice and after MUP more or less continued even though it was more expensive.

The difference was that they were down in their household budget and had less discretionary income to spend.

Seeing as going to the pub is a discretionary activity it was always more likely to be cut back than the home drinking because even with MUP the price difference is still substantial.

In previous posts I characterised the publicans support for MUP as a bit of a own goal. I stand by that.

bog master

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121868538#Comment_121868538

If you are referring to my goodself, thank you for the compliment. However you cannot compare the two. People that travel North travel to a different country with different taxes and different prices to begin with. NI has consistently had cheaper alcohol prices. A Scot traveling to England would save the MUP tax, but the base price would be similar.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121878684#Comment_121878684

And there's many other products cheaper in the North, if you are in Newry, chances are you won't just stock up on booze, although booze might be what tips the trip into making financial sense. So even bigger losses for retailers here.

That would not be a factor in Scotland-England trips.

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121878682#Comment_121878682

I think that's a very simplistic view of things.

The publicans are not stupid, they know why their trade is changing, they knew that something like MUP was not some sort of magic bullet to bring people back to the pubs.

What they did see however was what was going on in big retailers where there was all sorts of large volume offers at very cheap (for Ireland) prices.

That's something they knew they could not compete with and which MUP could at least curtail.

The big retailers have far more buying power than the pubs when it comes to alcohol.

I know that most people here think all pubs do is gouge, gouge gouge but that's not the case.

A lot of places just can't make a living without passing on the cost increases they have to deal with to the public.

This notion that some people have that pubs would be busier if they were cheaper is as daft as the notion that MUP would bring the good old days back for pubs.

So when publicans saw this opportunity to curtail the high volume/low price (for Ireland) selling that the retailers were doing, they supported it.

Just like the independent off licenses supported it.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121878862#Comment_121878862

There is nothing simplistic about my analysis, I'm pretty sure I'm on the money here.

You have more faith in the intelligence of members of LVA and VFI than I have.

We can agree that publicans had a bee in their bonnet about supermarkets for a long time.

Their lobbying in the late noughties resulted in the Fine Gael committment to ban below cost selling in 2011.

The ban was never delivered and Fine Gael morphed it in with the MUP policy.

That's where the publicans should have taken a back seat if they had any sense but they didn't realise that times had moved on.

Driven by greed and a desire to get a result they jumped into bed with a coalition of health worriers and neo prohibitionists.

They ignored the fact that the policy they were supporting was preaching the evils of the products they make their living by selling.

They lobbied even harder to take money out of the pockets of the people who are their target market IE. people who take a drink.

The anti drink lobby aren't finished yet. They are currently lobbying against extended opening hours much to the discomfort of the publicans.

They will move on to try and get more restrictions on drinkers because that's what they exist to do.

The publicans will live to rue the day they gave credence to them.

As for the off licences, if possible they are even worse than the publicans.

Total charlatans, oh so obviously trying to take out the competition.

Gusser09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121878862#Comment_121878862

One thing I agree on is the fact that a lot of pubs may not be exactly gouging. They might just want to be able to pay wages and turn a modest profit. It doesn't really matter to the punters though as to why prices are so high. A point is being, and has been reached whereby people are just turned off going to a pub and paying 6.50 for a pint of lager.

That's where the danger for the home drinker comes in. Calls have already been made for MUP to be increased. Publicans are using the nonsensical health and safety benefits of MUP as a trojan horse trying to make the pubs attractive again from a price point.

dxhound2005

The Health Worriers won out. They got the Act to include a whole lot of stuff about Health, and even got Health into the title. The various alcohol lobbies are not mentioned, that I know of. The Neo Prohibitionists are probably a wing of the Pioneers, but who knows. Or friend McGowan in Scotland, who has alcohol companies for clients, is another one in on that conpiracy theory.

PUBLIC HEALTH (ALCOHOL) ACT 2018

An Act to provide for the minimum price per gram of alcohol, to confer the power on the Minister for Health to, by order, increase that price, to provide for the labelling of alcohol products including the inclusion of health warnings and the alcohol content and energy content of alcohol products on alcohol product containers, to provide that an applicant for the grant or renewal of a licence under the Licensing Acts 1833 to 2011 and an applicant for the grant or renewal of a licence under the Registration of Clubs Acts 1904 to 2008 shall notify the Health Service Executive of the application, to provide for restrictions in relation to the advertising and sponsorship of alcohol products, generally and in relation to children, to provide procedures in relation to the exposure for sale and advertising of alcohol products in specified licensed premises, to confer power on the Minister for Health to make regulations for the purpose of prohibiting or restricting the sale of alcohol products in certain circumstances, to provide for enforcement measures, to provide for the repeal of certain provisions of the Intoxicating Liquor Act 2003 and the Intoxicating Liquor Act 2008 , and to provide for related matters.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121879583#Comment_121879583

We kind of know all that already.

No need to rub it in.

We're hurting man....🙁

dxhound2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121878684#Comment_121878684

The real losers are the people from the South who always bought their drink in the North. They had to look on in envy at the new shoppers from further afield getting in on the act. In reality it is only a small addition to a long existing cross border trade. The law in Scotland created a brand new cross border trade for cheaper alcohol in England. But as the studies have shown, it is mostly a small section of the population near the border, same as in Ireland.

Keep an eye out for new studies when the 65 pence MUP comes in.

BagofWeed

Not a drinking man myself but disgusted to read this. This country is kill joy central, sick puritanical mindset, treating us like children. Fine Gael 'too left for too long,' says Michael Ring (rte.ie)

VinLieger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121933795#Comment_121933795

There's an aged cohort of FG really pushing a move to the right, Charlie "weed is a gateway drug" Flanagan is another one calling for no late night boozing as well

VinLieger

Had some family come back from a trip to NI yesterday, they brought back a lovely present of 6 bottles of Villa Maria Sauvignon, full price is usually 12-13 euro sometimes can get lucky with it being on special at 10 or 11 which is when i would normally buy it, they got it for the equivalent of 7.50....... we are being robbed.

This reddit thread has even more horrific examples.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ireland/comments/1bp2g8j/ridiculous_drink_comparison/

La Madame

I am getting kind of tired of the few people here who are in favour of MUP and who mention this or that study which might work on a tiny percentage of a part of the Scottish population.

There is a saying that people get the politicians they deserve. I was surprised that there wasn't more protest against this shameless law.

Anyway - personally I have not purchased more than one Sixpack of Beer in ROI since January 2022 . I started home brewing with a Grandfather (Fantastic Beer) and for the wife which enjoys a glass of red wine now and then we order from Europe.

Don't get me wrong we still could afford the ridiculous Irish prices - But we just don't want to be part of the stupid game anymore.

PS.: Germany has partly legalised Cannabis since the 1st of April. I don't smoke Tobacco or Cannabis but I remember the Garda in the seventies coming round to places to search for it……oh what ridiculous fuss they all made about it.

dxhound2005

The message may finally be getting through here. Far from being the issue which was going to energise the nation into protest, it is a non issue that very few care about. People won't even be able to find a political party to vote against, because they are all in favour of MUP.

Unless the activists on this thread want to stand in the local elections on an anti MUP platform.

VinLieger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121980805#Comment_121980805

Indeed it is, were paying almost 200% of the price you can easily get across the border, im organising a monthly trip with my in laws and wont be spending a penny down here for the forseeable.

Also despite your dismissive flame bait gloating I will be mentioning it to all candidates who come to my door come the General Election and explain the mounting evidence that proves its ineffectiveness, increase of the actual problems its meant to solve and overall incredibly poor basis for implementation.

I will say the lack of grace and overall classless sneering tone of your post tracks with your previous childish naivety of believing the brexit pint glass nonsense, did it make you feel good? Did you fart after you clicked post comment and take a good long deep victory sniff?

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121980805#Comment_121980805

Oh we care all right but due to the total political support for MUP we are in a fix.

So we just muddle along, a bit of duty free here, a trip to Newry there, that sort of thing. When we are stuck a bit locally.

We still think MUP is a stupid piece of public policy which doesn't work and just puts up prices.

La Madame

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121980805#Comment_121980805

I don't know why this small Island in the East Atlantic was chosen for this stupid Experiment ? Most normal people here did not even understand it , they just pay the higher price and swallow . I clearly messaged to my local MPs that I will not vote again until MUP is abolished. - As I mentioned before: People get the politics they deserve.

dxhound2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121980922#Comment_121980922

What is that Pint Glass stuff about??

La Madame

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121981042#Comment_121981042

It is about that the Democratic Political System in Ireland is kaputt. And this indirectly has to to do with putting MUP in place.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121980805#Comment_121980805

Wow, that thinking would have gone down well in the old DDR

"All parties in the Volkstag are part of the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Front_%28East_Germany%29 and are in agreement with the policies of the Central Committee"

therefore it can't be wrong.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121980981#Comment_121980981

Putting up prices is one thing - if it generated more taxes for the state to spend on other things.

Putting up prices just to boost the profits of brewers and retailers is just madness.

dxhound2005

Lame stuff, a poor imitation of the OP. North Korea also go a mention.

"We are heading on a slippery slope towards a fascist Nazi-style dictatorship. Ireland is a First World country, I believe in capitalism. If someone over the legal drinking age wants to buy a can of beer at 50 cents and a shop is offering the cans at such a price, then why should a Hitler-style government stop them?"

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121981313#Comment_121981313

Exactly.

MUP is straightforward legalised robbery.

The Government empowered retailers by statute to take extra profits from their customers.

In short, as my cockney cousins say "we was done up like kippers".

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121981328#Comment_121981328

Your refusal to address the point raised is noted.

Sticking up for the interests of the vast majority of people who (a) don't want to inflate the profits of rip-off publicans when they can avoid it and (b) still enjoy a drink without causing a problem to themselves or anyone else

is still not the policy of any political party here. They've all been bought off by a combination of vested interests and sheer stupidity.

dxhound2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121981405#Comment_121981405

Our political system spent years on the issue. Just a tiny bit attached. You did not mention the other vested interest, what is called the Health Mafia here. They seem to think that alcohol does cause problems for society.

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/select_committee_on_health/2018-06-20/2/?highlight%5B0%5D=drugs

La Madame

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121981468#Comment_121981468

Quote : Our political system spent years on the issue - End of quote . That outcome says a lot about the political system in ROI.The Political System ?? Which Lobby Groups do you mean ?? 😪 😭

dxhound2005

A speech from Simon Harris in 2018. If anyone has evidence that he took money from the drinks industry, or evidence of any corruption in relation to this issue, now would be the ideal time to produce it.

https://merrionstreet.ie/en/news-room/speeches/dail_eireann_second_stage_speech_by_the_minister_for_health_simon_harris_td.html

La Madame

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121981877#Comment_121981877

another slab into the face all ordinary people in Ireland a complete Shame ignoring the will of the people Simon Harris ?? 🤣 Another muppet?