Minimum alcohol pricing is nigh

Gusser09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121080009#Comment_121080009

I don't think tobacco consumption is comparable to alcohol consumption though.

Yeah alcoholism is comparable for sure but not people who enjoy a few beers the odd time. A few fags now and again isn't the same as a few cans. Smoking is far more addictive.

We shouldn't be looking at that market for benchmarks of how to do things. We should be looking at similar western countries like Germany and how they deal with alcohol sales and issues. Pricing into oblivion isn't the solution and never will be. It won't impact the problematic drinkers.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121079689#Comment_121079689

Nothing stopping other EU insurers from operating here (and several have, and do) apart from the high level of court awards, dodgy claims, etc.

Similarly nothing stopping non-Irish financial institutions offering mortgages here, and some do, but it's almost impossible to repossess a house if the owner decides to just stop paying.

We have one non-Irish pub chain here (Wetherspoon's, who charge FAR less) but they have to buy licences off the existing holders at vast expense, because of the power of the vested interest of publicans. So there is a large, expensive barrier to entry.

Tesco abuse the planning system to frustrate Aldi and Lidl when they want to open new stores by blocking/delaying them with dubious objections.

So we have made a rod for our own backs with our refusal to take any action against chancers, wasters and vested interests. In fact this country indulges them at every opportunity to the extent where the honest, tax-paying, working person who just wants to relax with a few drinks at the end of a hard week is wondering what is the fúcking point of being everyone else's fool?

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121080107#Comment_121080107

Of course it's not, but part of the hysteria AAI and co are whipping up in the media is pretending that alcohol and tobacco are the same.

Tobacco prematurely ends the lives of half of the people who use it. It causes years of misery (and heavy costs on our health service) for many more. It's not remotely comparable to alcohol.

BraveDonut

No politician is going to make a stand against this - it is too easy for someone to turn it back on them to say that they support alcoholism, binge drinking, etc.

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121080107#Comment_121080107

We shouldn't be looking at that market for benchmarks of how to do things. We should be looking at similar western countries like Germany and how they deal with alcohol sales and issues. Pricing into oblivion isn't the solution and never will be. It won't impact the problematic drinkers.

You are saying that as if Germany and other countries have in some way cracked the code of alcohol use.

They haven't, they have problems with alcohol that are a drain on their health systems and society also.

Just because it's cheaper there doesn't mean it any less harmful to society.

Gusser09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121081523#Comment_121081523

But the way in which tobacco was tackled is the magic bullet?

MUP won't solve anything. Problem drinkers who clog up the health system and people who act the maggot when drunk will still do it. They will still drink themselves into oblivion. So base don that I'm not sure what AAI's agenda actually is. I suspect it's not about protecting the health of the nation though.

One of the other Pro MUP commentators on this thread was on another thread recently slating anyone who owned a Dodgy box. I guess it's an anti enjoyment thing for some people. I'm not saying that's you but the logic behind MUP is totally flawed. It won't work.

Alcohol consumption has been on a steady decline due to a number of factors and that's pre-mup. One of the main factors is education. But rather than continue down that route AAI are given what they want.

As I've said I smell a rat when themselves and the VIntners are agreeing with eachother. I don't think AAI are anti pub drinking. They just hate to think the average man and woman are able to afford a few cans at home on the weekend. Curtain twitchers is all they are really. They must have seriously sad and boring lives. I'd wonder why any of them get involved. What are the personal reasons. And they can stick my health up their bollix. It's none of their business.

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121079584#Comment_121079584

Amazing the Newstalk didn't have an independent off license operator on yesterday to challenge AAI and the Vintners.

Maybe because the body that represents independent and small off licenses support MUP ?

https://www.checkout.ie/drinks/noffla-calls-next-government-prioritise-mup-89205

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121079751#Comment_121079751

Same old posters ranting.... ...

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121079881#Comment_121079881

Anyone who wants to consume less has the answer at hand.

They can just do it if they want to.

MUP is making me pay more because someone down the street can't/won't control their consumption.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121081702#Comment_121081702

That's because they didn't like the competition from the supermarkets.

They don't want people to drink less.

Gusser09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121081702#Comment_121081702

Ah ok. So Vintners, indy off licenses and AAI dont want supermarkets to sell cheaper beer.

Hmm.....

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121081917#Comment_121081917

At least you are now aware of why no one from the independent off license trade was on the show to rebutt the others.

VinLieger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121081523#Comment_121081523

Germany are on basically the same downward trend on consumption as we are for the past 2 decades with alcohol being less than half the price here..... Explain that

Gusser09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121082005#Comment_121082005

It's simple really. For years in Ireland Alcohol has been used as a stick to beat us with from both home and abroad. We have been told that we are terrible drinkers and made feel guilty for having a night out or in from certain quarters. We have been stereotyped the world over as a nation of feckless boozers when in fact we are no worse than other Western countries. For some reason AAI have the ear of the policy makers and are bending it on a regular basis. Not just happy with the huge rise in price they secured with MUP they now want to increase it even further. They also want you to be looking at a rotten picture of someones liver on a heineken can now.

I'd love the question to be asked to AAI members if they enjoy a drink or are tee total. I think we know what the overall answer is to that one. I'd also like to know what their agenda is. Why are they so invested in other peoples health? I'll tell you now it ain't about the cost of to the exchequer. If 500 million per year was saved from raising the cost of beer it would only be pissed away somewhere else.

Is it just me or has Dublin City Centre for example just got even more lawless since the introduction of MUP? Is a wazone most nights. It's not about the social issues. The social issues caused by consuming to much alcohol both in the home and out on the town will only increase. Think about it. During the 60's,70's and 80's in Ireland women were still beaten in the home by unemployed men who drank too much even though they didn't have the money to do it. Kids weren't fed or clothed because of this.

A nanny state mess. Reducing speed limits because some can't drive responsibly. Increasing beer because some can't drink sensibly. **** pricing the motorist out of driving their car anywhere. Crucifying people cutting turf. PAYE, PRSI, USC, LPT etc absolutely murdering normal people.

Pissed off the when it comes to Europe we tend to take their most shittiest of policies and laws yet we can't adopt the German, French, Spanish, Portuguese or Italian pricing when it comes to off license beer sales. An absolute hypocrisy of a country.

If I were in my 20's again I'd be off. **** sake. I know lads who have settled in Oz, the States or Europe. Even where taxes are high at least these places have something going for them in terms of lifestyle. Not in Ireland though. Just a constant gouge with **** all to show for your weeks work.

I'm off now. I'll only ruin my weekend.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121084937#Comment_121084937

I dont think MUP plays any real role in the antisocial behaviour.

If anything, it means kids drink less because its a little more expensive. Anti social behaviour is mainly driven by a lack of policing and sentencing.

In other words, no deterrents. Especially for teenagers.

The question shouldnt be, why are kids causing trouble?, it should be - Why would kids NOT act up, when there is no punishment for doing so?

But overall, Dublin is still a great place to be. Especially on days like today :)

Head off down the beach for a while. If you stay out of D1 and the usual dodgy/social housing areas, youll have a great time :)

10000maniacs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121079584#Comment_121079584

We need to put a stop to this Vintners protectionist bullshit for good. They have already got the government to effectively double the price of beer in supermarkets and off licences.

And most of the Dail idiots voted the MUP through, because most of them have got vested interest in pubs.

The majority of them didn't have any health reasons for doing so. Just an attempt to keep the family coffers ticking over.

The Healy Rae's were probably doing a love wee in their pants placing their vote on MUP.

One of their pubs was packed to the rafters 10 days before indoor hospitality restrictions were removed for fully vaccinated people during Covid. (Just to show you how much they care about the health of Irish people)

Gardai making enquiries into packed Healy-Rae pub - Extra.ie

RayCon

If the reason behind MUP was indeed for Health Reasons (AAI's stated mission is to "advocate to reduce alcohol harm") ... why was it not designed in such a way that the extra revenue generated from it went towards addiction/recovery services rather than into the retailers profits .....

.... because it's not. It's motivation was to make alcohol more expensive for a specific type of purchaser - the supermarket customer.

The other argument was that Ireland was one of the cheapest countries in Europe for alcohol (based on off-sale and supermarket prices) therefore we purchase too much for our good ....

.... incorrect. Has anyone traveled in Europe ? In my experience - supermarket alcohol prices in Portugal, Netherlands, Germany, Spain , Italy and even bloody Denmark are cheaper than Ireland.

Doctor Jimbob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121085532#Comment_121085532

I'm sure you're well aware, it's been covered on the thread before but for anyone who hasn't read it, the following text can be found on page 26 of Fine Gael's 2011 manifesto:

"Supporting Irish Pubs: Fine Gael recognises the importance of the Irish pub for tourism, rural jobs and as a social outlet in communities across the country. We will support the local pub by banning the practice of below cost selling on alcohol, particularly by large supermarkets and the impact this has had on alcohol consumption and the viability of pubs." 

Sounds suspiciously like MUP to me. The health narrative is nothing but spin.

RayCon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121085637#Comment_121085637

Christ on a bike. I hadn't seen that before so thanks for that.

So whats the logic ? ... Lets make alcohol prohibitively expensive for home drinkers so they'll return to Pubs instead - where it's even more expensive per unit ! What absolute horsesh!t.

Gusser09

Just if anyone isn't pissed off enough.

In Germany this week at a medium size chain

Just on the 20 bottles of 500ml Krombacher @ €9.29. I just bought 8 500ml cans @ €20. LOL.

Fucking tragic what has happened.

Geuze

4.49 for 70cl of vodka 37.5%!!

What is the price in brackets?

Gusser09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121086019#Comment_121086019

With their equivalent of tax i assume?

Geuze

No, from being in DE over 10 times, VAT is always included in prices.

I suspect the bottle deposit?

Or maybe the previous price before the sale?

ednwireland

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121078349#Comment_121078349

if it's not for personal use then it becomes liable for excise vat etc

ednwireland

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121086072#Comment_121086072

customs can decide that though. if they think its not reasonable then you have to prove its for personal use. (not sure how you do that -sit there and drink it maybe)

certainly think that's was the case when I done wine runs.

dxhound2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121086072#Comment_121086072

He should have bought proper beer. He could well afford it.

On Wednesday, Revenue seized illicit alcohol, branded ‘San Miguel’, with a retail value of nearly €99,500, in Co Wexford.

10000maniacs

Krombacher 500 ml at 50c a can in Germany. 😮

And it's top notch beer.

What the government has done here with MUP is criminal. Anti competitive. Nothing to do with anybody's health.

Saving their family owned pubs more like. "Great stuff lads, good vote on MUP. Now we can go back to charging alcoholics €7 a pint."

They would not get away with doing something like this in any other EU country.

Gusser09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121086166#Comment_121086166

Haha. Its this lad. Crown on the glass, anti drink and anti dodgy box. Go way outta that mate.

Gusser09

AAI given another free run on Pat Kenny this morning. Themselves and Manic Flynn want shots banned from nightclubs after 2AM.

Manic couldn't handle a drink so he was everyone to suffer.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121095936#Comment_121095936

they obviously want consumption rates to increase again, because if they didn't then they wouldn't be at this nonsense.

all this guff does is reintroduce a catholic church like guilt and shame around alcohol, which created this supposed culture we apparently have around alcohol in the first place.

we need to grow up, allow pubs and off licenses to open when they want, remove MUP, things might get a little messy for a while but people will get whatever out of their system quite quick and then we can have the same culture as the grown up european countries.

or we can continue as we are, and slowly undo the falling consumption rates.