RIP Fidel Castro

Felix Jones is God

Pherekydes wrote: »

I should be euthanized when I reach 60? :eek:

Why wait?

Avatar MIA

Free and equal healthcare... blah blah blah.

An ideological self important blowhard that created a police state has died.

A bit late in the day, but 2016 finally gets one right.

dan1895

degsie wrote: »

A former dictator has died.

And in other news....

One of if not the most iconic political figure of the 20th centuary has died.

Agree or disagree with his policies and regime but this is certainly a newsworthy story.

Owryan

horgan_p wrote: »

2916 is being one seriously weird pox of a yoke.
Can't help but wonder what it'll do for a finale

2916??????? Are you from the future?

hannible the cannible

yo soy carlos wrote: »

who tried to suppress the church for half a century.

I wouldn't see that as a bad thing tbh

DrumSteve

Was there a couple of years ago, personally thought it was an amazing place but with some real poverty. In a way, I'm sad to see a true figure of history die.

Whether people liked him or not he was a man who followed through on his convictions.

Avatar MIA

DrumSteve wrote: »

Whether people liked him or not he was a man who followed through on his convictions.

True. But so did Stalin.

Chuchote

Avatar MIA wrote: »

Free and equal healthcare... blah blah blah.

Yeah, a really bad thing - hate that! Glad we don't have it in Ireland :eek:

AllGunsBlazing

Did the CIA finally get him? Took them long enough...

DrumSteve

Avatar MIA wrote: »

True. But so did Stalin.

Stalin IMO was different. But thats for a different thread.

Avatar MIA

Chuchote wrote: »

Yeah, a really bad thing - hate that! Glad we don't have it in Ireland :eek:

Cherry pick one perceived benefit, fine - personally I'd rather take my chances in the Irish health system. But would you sacrifice free speech, and live in a communist country where people will risk their lives to escape?

Jawgap

Chuchote wrote: »

Umm, not nukes, I think?

Wiki… https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_Missile_Crisis



Oh, wait, yes, you're right, they were nuclear, reading on. But the thing is, America put missiles within spitting distance of the USSR, and the Cuban missiles were a poker-player's response. "You point your missiles at us, we point our missiles at you". Crazy stand-off, but both sides were waving guns at each other.

Actually, Khruschev's plan had nothing to do with the Jupiters in Italy and Turkey - that was an after-the-fact justification. If he really wanted to trade the Cuban nukes for US nukes he'd have traded for the Jupiters in Germany.

Khruschev's plan was to get the nukes operational - then announce it as fait accompli then trade their removal for Berlin. If the US didn't agree the plan was to continue the build up on the island to include a naval base for ballistic missile subs. If the initial plan had worked the Sovs intended to have 24 medium range missiles, 16 intermediates, 42 bombers (with a fighter wing) and about 50,000 personnel on the island by the end of 1962.

Avatar MIA

DrumSteve wrote: »

Stalin IMO was different. But thats for a different thread.

He was far more vicious, but he had the will to implement his system of government.

Alf Stewart.

Jawgap wrote: »

Yes, I know. I've been there. You are correct about 1, your are correct about 2 insofar as people live in the cities and larger towns.

Healthcare is indeed free, widely available but only to a certain level, for example they have less than 1 MRI scanner for every million of population (the corresponding figure for Ireland is 2.01).

.....and why should the US be bound to trade with anyone - Cuba made its choice, the US made theirs......

......and yes, absolutely the US should have stayed out of Cuban affairs and let them get on with it.

I was there in 09, 4 nights in Havana, five nights in Varadero, and five nights in Santiago de Cuba (on honeymoon)

Got to experience the health system first hand. Needed anti-histamine injections due to mossie bites. While it was **free, quick and effective, in fairness it was harshly blackrock clinic, but it met my needs, in and out in about 45 minutes.

The housing, I'd also admit to although free, not exactly luxury duplex apartments, I recall a lad taking us on a horse ridden carriage telling us how his wife got scalded arms pouring boiling water into the cistern to flush the jacks due to no plumbing in the gaffe.

We chose Cuba for honeymoon for the extraordinary beautiful beaches, coastline and climate.

And (unashamedly on my part) for the cheap grub, cigars and booze.

I found it an exciting and beautiful place, though not gonna lie, some parts of Havana where absolute shìte-holes, though (straight up) I get hassled more each week by beggars in Dublin than I did in Cuba.

My advice to anyone wanting to see the real Cuba, and get a real feel of Cuban life is to get there soon.

**free as in I paid upfront and was reimbursed via travel insurance iirc

padd b1975

Outside the world of Che Guevara t-shirt wearing loons and student politics muppets who would be crying for their mothers within an hour of living under his regime, there won't be too many tears shed in this part of the world.

Rightly so too.

Jawgap

Alf Stewart. wrote: »

I was there in 09, 4 nights in Havana, five nights in Varadero, and five nights in Santiago de Cuba (on honeymoon)

Got to experience the health system first hand. Needed anti-histamine injections due to mossie bites. While it was **free, quick and effective, in fairness it was harshly blackrock clinic, but it met my needs, in and out in about 45 minutes.

The housing, I'd also admit to although free, not exactly luxury duplex apartments, add I recall a lad taking us on a horse ridden carriage telling us how his wife got scalded arms pouring boiling water into the cistern to flush the jacks due to no plumbing in the gaffe.

We chose Cuba for honeymoon due to the climate, the extraordinary beautiful beaches, coastline and climate.

And (unashamedly on my part) for the cheap grub, cigars and booze.

I found it an exciting and beautiful place, though not gonna lie, some parts of Havana where absolute shìte-holes, though (straight up) I get hassled more each week by beggars in Dublin than I did in Cuba.

My advice to anyone wanting to see the real Cuba, and get a real feel of Cuban life is to get there soon.

**free as in I paid upfront and was reimbursed via travel insurance iirc

I was there for nearly 3 weeks in 2012 - 10 days working the rest holiday.

There is a lot to admire in what they do and achieve with the resources they have, and as someone pointed out there is nothing like the wealth inequality we have but they do 'pay' for their system in other ways - it's loosening up now, but trying to set up a business is a nightmare, the low level corruption, the lack of freedoms we take for granted etc

Chuchote

Jawgap wrote: »

trying to set up a business is a nightmare, the low level corruption, the lack of freedoms we take for granted etc

How does this compare to Cuba's neighbours in the Caribbean?

MRnotlob606

He's the sort of man who has always divided opinion.

Avatar MIA

MRnotlob606 wrote: »

He's the sort of man who has always divided opinion.

Just not in Cuba, not publicly anyway.

Jawgap

Chuchote wrote: »

How does this compare to Cuba's neighbours in the Caribbean?

I believe the comparison being engaged in was between Ireland and Cuba, not Cuba and the Caribbean - I don't doubt that there are worse examples in the world, and probably quite close to them too.

Fleawuss

Chuchote wrote: »

after De Valera ended payment of enormous compensation to British landlords for land that had originally been stolen in the 1600s to the 1800s.

Yeah but he kept collecting the money for the govt.

Yourself isit

Thargor wrote: »

I never understood how the guy who let the Soviets place nukes within striking distance of Washington survived. By the way that's the reason for the blockade to all the people saying America is the reason Cuba is poor, they're not exactly innocent.

The US didn't exactly respect Cuban sovereignty there now did it.

Chuchote

Jawgap wrote: »

I believe the comparison being engaged in was between Ireland and Cuba, not Cuba and the Caribbean - I don't doubt that there are worse examples in the world, and probably quite close to them too.

I would think we're comparing Cuba to "the rest of the world". And Cuba has good things - equality, though poor; putting its money into universal health care and universal education.

On the other hand, Human Rights Watch, Freedom House and Amnesty International cite Cuban human rights as a disaster - it has State executions including even extrajudicial executions (execution without trial); it has abused psychiatry in the same way Soviet Russia did.

I would want the stuff in the first paragraph; I wouldn't want the stuff in the second paragraph. If you want to talk about Ireland - could we do this? Have equality, universal healthcare and education, everyone having enough and no one in a mansion scarfing back caviare and no one sleeping under a bridge with their baby?

smelly sock

MRnotlob606 wrote: »

He's the sort of man who has always divided opinion.

And heads from bodies.

Jawgap

Yourself isit wrote: »

The US didn't exactly respect Cuban sovereignty there now did it.

This history is a bit more complicated.....Eisenhower introduced an arms embargo that affected both sides in the Revolution......after Castro gained power he approached the US about loosening the embargo.....the US said no, and reduced the amount of sugar they were going to take from Cuba......the USSR stepped in and agreed to take the sugar the US wasn't going to take in return for oil.....the US owned oil refineries refused to refine the Soviet oil.....so Castro nationalised them......Eisenhower responded by embargoing all trade except food and medicine.....Castro retaliated by nationalising pretty much everything that was American owned on the island......which led Eisenhower to break off diplomatic relations and implement the full trade embargo.....

......of course while all this was happening the US was also trying to overthrow him.....then you had Bay of Pigs.....the Missile Crisis.....after which JFK froze Cuban assets in the US, and pretty much banned all travel, including indirect travel by US citizens and all products with even a hint of Cuban-ness about them!

smurgen

hannible the cannible wrote: »

By that I take it you mean westernised with their Starbucks and McDonald's and obesity , for anyone wondering when would be a good time to visit Cuba it would be in the next 5 years before Washington get their claws in and turn Cuba with its old world ways and living heritage and history into a satellite state with a burger king and dominoes on every street

I was in cuba in august.the people hated the castros and i can understand why.they were so close to the breadline it was frightening.it was a real,real eye opener to see what no investment looks like.streets were absolutely filthy,infrastructure terrible.holes is motorways that could swallow a car and footpaths with gaping holes. Also it is like north korea lite.western music and culture is sanctioned.internet is sanction.there are guys who make a living downloading random western content once a month and sharing it with everyone in their neighborhoods for money.if they get caught they're executed. We also seen the odd mural there that said socilaism or death and there are symbols everywhere to remind you you're being watched.

Jawgap

Chuchote wrote: »

I would think we're comparing Cuba to "the rest of the world". And Cuba has good things - equality, though poor; putting its money into universal health care and universal education.

On the other hand, Human Rights Watch, Freedom House and Amnesty International cite Cuban human rights as a disaster - it has State executions including even extrajudicial executions (execution without trial); it has abused psychiatry in the same way Soviet Russia did.

I would want the stuff in the first paragraph; I wouldn't want the stuff in the second paragraph. If you want to talk about Ireland - could we do this? Have equality, universal healthcare and education, everyone having enough and no one in a mansion scarfing back caviare and no one sleeping under a bridge with their baby?

Equality is fine, and who wouldn't want it - but see my earlier post about their healthcare system. Primary and community health care is excellent, but good luck if you have a car accident, need an MRI scan, need anything more than basic cancer treatment or palliative care......especially if you live away from an urban area.

You will get to see a doctor a lot quicker than you will here, but they'd be limited, compared to here, in what they could do for you.

Plus, I'm not exactly sure that their education system, while universal and free, exactly encourages inquiry and free thinking

Chuchote

Jawgap wrote: »

Plus, I'm not exactly sure that their education system, while universal and free, exactly encourages inquiry and free thinking

Unlike ours :P

Kristopherus

Good riddance to another tyrant:mad:

Galway_Old_Man

I guess we should all be thankful that Khruschev ignored the mad dictators ravings during the Missile Crisis urging a Soviet nuclear attack.

Like most of those who seize power through violent means, he did some good things and a lot of bad things.


If ye want a laugh, look at all those who'll be deifying the man. Then take a sample of those calling Mike Pence the worst names they can come out with. No prizes for guessing the percentage crossover