RIP Fidel Castro

Jawgap

Chuchote wrote: »

Nothing at all; I don't see any mention of torture on Amnesty's page about Cuba

http://www.amnestyusa.org/our-work/countries/americas/cuba

apart from "The visit of the UN Special Rapporteur on torture, planned for October, was postponed by the Cuban authorities until 2010", but maybe I'm not looking deep enough? There are references to people being beaten up while being arrested or imprisoned as government opponents. Here's Amnesty's section on Ireland lest we get too feisty http://www.amnestyusa.org/our-work/countries/europe/ireland

So I'm guessing if you cited Amnestyusa.org's website you agree with their assessment of Castro (personally I think it's a pretty objective conclusion)....

"Access to public services such as health and education for Cubans were substantially improved by the Cuban revolution and for this, his leadership must be applauded. However, despite these achievements in areas of social policy, Fidel Castro’s 49-year reign was characterized by a ruthless suppression of freedom of expression,” said Guevara-Rosas.

“The state of freedom of expression in Cuba, where activists continue to face arrest and harassment for speaking out against the government, is Fidel Castro’s darkest legacy.”

Over more than five decades documenting the state of human rights in Cuba, Amnesty International has recorded a relentless campaign against those who dare to speak out against the Cuban government’s policies and practices. Over the years, the organization has documented hundreds of stories of “prisoners of conscience”, people detained by the government solely for peacefully exercising their right to freedom of expression, association and assembly.

Repressive tactics used by the authorities have changed in the last years with fewer people sentenced to long-term prison for politically motivated reasons, but the control of the state over all the aspects of Cubans’ life remain a reality. Repression takes new forms in today’s Cuba, including the wide use of short-term arrests and ongoing harassment of people who dare to publish their opinions, defending human rights, or challenging the arbitrary arrest of a relative.

Upon establishing his provisional government in 1959, Castro organized trials of members of the previous government that resulted in hundreds of summary executions. In response to an international outcry and amid accusations that many of the trials were unfair, Castro responded:
"Revolutionary justice is not based on legal precepts, but on moral conviction... we are not executing innocent people or political opponents. We are executing murderers and they deserve it."

......but like Mussolini who made the trains run on time, Castro's a grand fellah because of the hospitals and the universities - just because there's no monetary cost associated with them doesn't mean there isn't a price to be paid.

Chuchote

Not at all like Mussolini. Look at the American efforts to kill Castro - for instance part 5 of this documentary -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITSgYe2hKhk#t=54.685389

- showing how a plane was destroyed by a mid-air bomb with all on board killed. Castro wasn't the one doing this kind of thing; his enemies and the enemies of Communist Cuba were.

Jawgap

Chuchote wrote: »

Not at all like Mussolini. Look at the American efforts to kill Castro - for instance part 5 of this documentary -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITSgYe2hKhk#t=54.685389

- showing how a plane was destroyed by a mid-air bomb with all on board killed. Castro wasn't the one doing this kind of thing; his enemies and the enemies of Communist Cuba were.

It's exactly like Mussolini - people think Castro should get a pass on the terrible political things he did because he implemented some decent social programmes!

And, Castro was doing exactly that type of stuff in Angola, Ethiopia, Yemen, Algeria and Western Sahara to name a few - he sent 500 tank commanders to fight in the Yom Kippur War to help Syria replace their losses ("they fought well, they died well" was the assessment of the Israelis of them).

It was wrong for the US to try and assassinate him, it was wrong for them to interfere in Cuba's affairs - why is it not wrong for Cuba to have exported its brand of ideological driven warfare? Because healthcare in Cuba is free?

nacho libre

brickmauser wrote: »

You can't refute that Castro was a tyrant.

Send Bush to hell too. 100%

I dont refute it at all. He slaughtered people who refused to to go to war in foreign countries. In his early Cuba life was horrible for gay people. I am no fan of us imperalism, but at least in the US arch critics of us war crimes are not executed or imprisoned for being dissidents. I just dont have much time for dictators whether they be right wing or left wing. Pinochet, the Argentinan junta, Castro and all those people in government who supported them all deserve the same fate. Unfortunately there is no hell for these people to go to.

brickmauser

nacho libre wrote: »

I dont refute it at all. He slaughtered people who refused to to go to war in foreign countries. In his early Cuba life was horrible for gay people. I am no fan of us imperalism, but at least in the US arch critics of us war crimes are not executed or imprisoned for being dissidents. I just dont have much time for dictators whether they be right wing or left wing. Pinochet, the Argentinan junta, Castro and all those people in government who supported them all deserve the same fate. Unfortunately there is no hell for these people to go to.

There are corrupt elites on all sides with blood on their hands.

Castro is dead.

Let's be thankful.

One less murderer and butcher.

Sudden Valley

I dont wish that Castro rests in peace as he was a brutal dictator. Unfortunately i think the USA through their policies towards Cuba from the very start of his rule helped him stay in power. He is no better or worse than any of the right-wing dictators that have existed in the history of central and south america

Son Of A Vidic

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Correction. A communist that saw Cubans live in poverty in to the 21st century.

Not helped of course by a ridiculous American embargo of the tiny little island. By that's what happens to you when you kick the American mafia and they corporate cohorts of your country. I personally couldn't give two f**ks about Castro or communism, but Cuba's Healthcare and Education models are examples to the World. Be nice if we sent our HSE clowns out to learn a thing or two about running a health service.

Skullface McGubbin

The amount of sympathy expressed towards a Communist dictator by some public figures and by some posters on this site is not only disturbing but also very telling.

Jawgap

Son Of A Vidic wrote: »

Not helped of course by a ridiculous American embargo of the tiny little island. By that's what happens to you when yaou kick the American mafia and they corporate cohorts of your country and make yourself a client state of a larger equally corrupt regime and allow them to use your island as a base for nuclear weapons. I personally couldn't give two f**ks about Castro or communism, but Cuba's Healthcare and Education models are examples to the World. Be nice if we sent our HSE clowns out to learn a thing or two about running a health service.

FYP

Edit: btw, you might want to examine the political and social cost of their health and education models before holding them up as exemplars.

Ulysses Gaze

Was it....

http://https://www.flickr.com/photos/21634253@N03/2313538162

Junkyard Tom

Wanderer78 wrote: »

It's gonna be very sad to see Cuba wrecked by the Washington consensus but at least they'll be modernised

They don't have to become just like the US. They could keep the things that work and adopt some of the benefits of a capitalist/corporatist economy and personal freedoms and rights people in the west enjoy.

Wanderer78

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

They don't have to become just like the US. They could keep the things that work and adopt some of the benefits of a capitalist/corporatist economy and personal freedoms and rights people in the west enjoy.

they could of course and id really like to see that but the power of organisations such as the imf and the world bank etc can sometimes be too much for governments. only time will tell i guess but i fear the worse for their country. they have done very well in some aspects of running their country.

mariaalice

Watched I am cuba this afternoon well worth searching out.

Junkyard Tom

Wanderer78 wrote: »

the power of organisations such as the imf and the world bank etc can sometimes be too much for governments.

Yes that's true but I believe the power of these institutions is gradually waning. One of the reasons the US is making deals with Cuba and Iran is because in a few years time its power to unilaterally strangle a country will be severely diminished with the emergence of multipolar economic institutions.

brickmauser

Skullface McGubbin wrote: »

The amount of sympathy expressed towards a Communist dictator by some public figures and by some posters on this site is not only disturbing but also very telling.

It's easy when they don't have to live there.

The level of denial on the part of the left toward Castro's Cuba and the dire situation in Venezuela caused by Chavez and Maduro reminds me of Holocaust denial by the extreme right.

Hotblack Desiato

mariaalice wrote: »

Watched I am cuba this afternoon well worth searching out.

A great film but watch it with a critical eye.

55 years ago, women obliged to prostitute themselves to feed their family, 55 years on their granddaughters are doing the same. Socialist utopia my ar5e.

RayM

The Nazis aren't happy with Michael D...

https://twitter.com/NationalPartyIE/status/802914044420100096

mariaalice

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

A great film but watch it with a critical eye.

55 years ago, women obliged to prostitute themselves to feed their family, 55 years on their granddaughters are doing the same. Socialist utopia my ar5e.

I am well aware of the contradictions in how Cuba turned out its interesting.

Ulysses Gaze

RayM wrote: »

The Nazis aren't happy with Michael D...

https://twitter.com/NationalPartyIE/status/802914044420100096

Anything that pisses off that shrill, dour clown Barrett, is ok with me.

harry Bailey esq

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Correction. A communist that saw Cubans live in poverty in to the 21st century.

Free education and healthcare for all?in the carribean?in the 60s?
Truly a monster.

Galway_Old_Man

RayM wrote: »

The Nazis aren't happy with Michael D...

https://twitter.com/NationalPartyIE/status/802914044420100096

Meh, a lot of people aren't happy with him on this. Any attempt to smear criticism of MdH because of that looney brigade is pretty pathetic tbh.


Edit: Lol, 142 followers. Really capturing the zeigest there! I know chippies with more of a following but I guess they couldn't be used to smear dissent.

Galway_Old_Man

brickmauser wrote: »

It's easy when they don't have to live there.

The level of denial on the part of the left toward Castro's Cuba and the dire situation in Venezuela caused by Chavez and Maduro reminds me of Holocaust denial by the extreme right.

I wonder do extremist leftie groups in college still show that Oliver Stone propaganda film he did on Chavez? I went to a screening of it back in the day during Socs week, bloody hell! The crowd started singing The Internationale at the end

brickmauser

harry Bailey esq wrote: »

Free education and healthcare for all?in the carribean?in the 60s?
Truly a monster.

Single party state a personality cult and prison torture and execution for his opponents?
Yes truly a monster.
An utterly odious cruel psychopathic piece of excrement who brought misery and poverty to his people.
The most merciful thing he ever did in his life was to die.

Depp

sad to see people deluded enough to mourn a murdering dictator...saw mick wallace at it earlier on and it was quite frankly disgusting to see a politician celebrating such a horrible individual.

Son Of A Vidic

and make yourself a client state of a larger equally corrupt regime and allow them to use your island as a base for nuclear weapons.

Jawgap wrote: »

FYP

I wasn't aware of the perennial war mongering American regime, ever placing any nuclear weapons on an Island.

BalcombeSt4

One of the greatest leaders of the 20th century & an inspiration for 3rd world countries all over the globe.

Iwasfrozen

BalcombeSt4 wrote: »

One of the greatest leaders of the 20th century & an inspiration for 3rd world countries all over the globe.

Why do you oppose democracy?

Wanderer78

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Why do you oppose democracy?

fantastic idea, only problem, it doesnt actually exist, particularly in the western world

Iwasfrozen

Wanderer78 wrote: »

fantastic idea, only problem, it doesnt actually exist, particularly in the western world

Would you say Cuba is more.or less democratic than Ireland.

If less would you say that's a good thing or a bad thing?

Wanderer78

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Would you say Cuba is more.or less democratic than Ireland.

If less would you say that's a good thing or a bad thing?

impossible to say really as ive very little knowledge of cuba but true democracy doesnt exist anywhere particularly within the european union. of course democracy is a good thing