Stopped by Gardaí with FCN

05eaftqbrs9jlh

Hello,

I'm just wondering about this FCN I was stopped by Gardaí with in Cork this morning. The Garda said I had made an illegal right turn onto the Cross Douglas Road (coming from the town side), but I maintained that I hadn't seen the sign. On my way back that way, I parked nearby and walked along the footpath to look. I concluded that a combination of the glare from the sun, the dirt on the sign and the fact that there was foliage obstructing the sign would have made it impossible for me to see it.

I've included some photos I took. I'm definitely going to appeal it, I'm just wondering are the grounds "Detection/Material Issue" or "Exceptional Circumstances" on the FCN Cancellation Request form?

https://us.v-cdn.net/6034073/uploads/attachments/776619/402228.jpg
The approach to the junction where the glare does not obstruct the sign. Sign not visible at this distance.

https://us.v-cdn.net/6034073/uploads/attachments/776619/402230.jpg
The sunlight glare on approach, sign completely invisible.

https://us.v-cdn.net/6034073/uploads/attachments/776619/402231.jpg
Again, sign is not visible from this point, nor is it anywhere near the stopping line for where one would be turning at that junction. There is no sign on the traffic light at the right-hand side of the road by the flower shop.

https://us.v-cdn.net/6034073/uploads/attachments/776619/402232.jpg
You can see the outline of the sign at this point but because it's so dirty and because of the glare, it isn't possible to see what it says.

https://us.v-cdn.net/6034073/uploads/attachments/776619/402229.jpg
The sign has a layer of grey residue over it, making it very hard to see. There are also branches hanging all around it which obstruct the view.

Please let me know what you think about the situation, if you have knowledge of the process or if something like this has ever happened to you.

Stheno

Sign looks pretty visible in that last picture tbh

Alanstrainor

I would presume you could see better from the road rather than the path. And your eye is far better than a camera at looking into the sun. Just because the photos are very dark doesn't mean anything. Can you link to the stretch of road on a map?

sjb25

Stheno wrote: »

Sign looks pretty visible in that last picture tbh

Would have said the same

Buy a pair of sunglasses OP

iwillhtfu

Regardless of the sign.

Take another look at the Green arrow I can't see you winning this one op.

Pay the fine and move on

cnocbui

Stheno wrote: »

Sign looks pretty visible in that last picture tbh

Sign looks like a black silhoutte to me in that last photo.

Sunglasses don't make anything silhouetted any more legible. They just make it darker just as they darken the sunlight.

Stheno

cnocbui wrote: »

Sign looks like a black silhoutte to me in that last photo.

Sunglasses don't make anything silhouetted any more legible. They just make it darker just as they darken the sunlight.

Really? It's perfectly clear to me. Polarised sunglasses are great for minimising the effect of glare

kona

Fine and a point on the license. Ouch. I'd just pay unless you can get the gard to stop the process.

iwillhtfu

cnocbui wrote: »

Sign looks like a black silhoutte to me in that last photo.

Sunglasses don't make anything silhouetted any more legible. They just make it darker just as they darken the sunlight.

Stheno wrote: »

Really? It's perfectly clear to me. Polarised sunglasses are great for minimising the effect of glare

Ye are looking at different pics the pics are out of sync from descriptive to quick links.

Last photo it's perfectly clear.

https://us.v-cdn.net/6034073/uploads/attachments/776619/402229.jpg

05eaftqbrs9jlh

This is the Google Street View Co-Ordinates.

Even in Maps you can't see the sign as it skips past it because it's so far back from the junction. Sunglasses would just have made the shadows darker, as the other poster said.

"Pay the fine and move on" is something I won't be doing, because when I was handing my licence in the Garda took a look at the photos and said he'd be very interested to see how it turned out.

RayCun

Alanstrainor wrote: »

I would presume you could see better from the road rather than the path. And your eye is far better than a camera at looking into the sun. Just because the photos are very dark doesn't mean anything. Can you link to the stretch of road on a map?

https://www.google.ie/maps/@51.8876539,-8.4555205,3a,75y,139.19h,61.64t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sEjGV_ArDboilifecoTMBAg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

iwillhtfu

Rogelio Dry Sympathy wrote: »

Even in Maps you can't see the sign as it skips past it because it's so far back from the junction. Sunglasses would just have made the shadows darker, as the other poster said.

"Pay the fine and move on" is something I won't be doing, because when I was handing my licence in the Garda took a look at the photos and said he'd be very interested to see how it turned out.

It's not a matter of pay the fine and move on. You're wrong an further action will be out of stubbornness so by all means go ahead.

You need to take another look at the rules of the road handbook and perhaps a trip to spec savers. God forbid it was someone stepping out onto the road. :eek:

Kimbot

Rogelio Dry Sympathy wrote: »

This is the Google Street View Co-Ordinates.

Even in Maps you can't see the sign as it skips past it because it's so far back from the junction. Sunglasses would just have made the shadows darker, as the other poster said.

"Pay the fine and move on" is something I won't be doing, because when I was handing my licence in the Garda took a look at the photos and said he'd be very interested to see how it turned out.

Nope, I zoomed forward one spot and this is clear as day to view so OP you havent a leg to stand on in this case im afraid.

https://www.google.ie/maps/@51.8875851,-8.4554248,3a,75y,129.51h,100.16t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sPanGwbVq0sT6e75zRRTHgw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

sjb25

OSI wrote: »

What about the arrow on the road and the filtered traffic light both showing straight ahead only OP?

Case closed m'lord

Homer

TinyChancer by name.. also by nature :P

Stheno

Rogelio Dry Sympathy wrote: »

This is the Google Street View Co-Ordinates.

Even in Maps you can't see the sign as it skips past it because it's so far back from the junction. Sunglasses would just have made the shadows darker, as the other poster said.

"Pay the fine and move on" is something I won't be doing, because when I was handing my licence in the Garda took a look at the photos and said he'd be very interested to see how it turned out.

From street view link you've posted I can see the sign, the straight only arrow in the road and the straight only green light!

GavMan

3rd link the sign is visible, Although diminished.

However, the traffic light and road marking have you bang to rights. Pay up and move on

05eaftqbrs9jlh

Stheno wrote: »

Really? It's perfectly clear to me. Polarised sunglasses are great for minimising the effect of glare

Which long view can you see the sign clearly from? I wasn't wearing sunglasses and didn't see the sign. I waited for another motorist to let me by and didn't drive recklessly in any other way. I pulled in for the garda immediately and explained to him that I didn't see the sign but he said the charge was automatic.

iwillhtfu wrote: »

Ye are looking at different pics the pics are out of sync from descriptive to quick links.

Last photo it's perfectly clear.

The last photo was taken from the footpath while I was standing directly underneath the sign to demonstrate that there is muck all over it. It's not possible to get that view of it from the road and you can see on Google Maps there's also a telephone pole blocking the view of it on approach.

The glare would have affected my view of the light as well and the arrow on the road is totally faded. I'm going to appeal it regardless as I genuinely didn't know that what I was doing is illegal and I really don't think I should be punished for a genuine mistake. People saying "what if it was a pedestrian" - it wasn't a pedestrian, it was me overlooking a road sign and another driver flashing me safely past with absolutely no danger to anyone.

HanaleiJ5N wrote: »

Can you link to the turn off on google maps? What are the road markings like at the end of the road you turned in to?

https://www.google.ie/maps/@51.8874471,-8.4552322,3a,75y,149.13h,99.72t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s2EUhcAohmqVNusTZAwF2RA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Atomicjuicer0

I reckon the op is right to say the sign isn't visible enough.

kooga

was it your first visit to Cork?

everybody knows you cant make that right...............................its up there with making the right turn from capwell onto the douglas road in front of the southern star!

sjb25

Atomicjuicer0 wrote: »

I reckon the op is right to say the sign isn't visible enough.

I can see it
but ok fair enough possibly what about the road markings and traffic light arrow "hints"

GM228

Atomicjuicer0 wrote: »

I reckon the op is right to say the sign isn't visible enough.

Even if it isn't there's also the issue of the arrow and filter light as already pointed out which are pretty clear!

Kimbot

Rogelio Dry Sympathy wrote: »

Which long view can you see the sign clearly from? I wasn't wearing sunglasses and didn't see the sign. I waited for another motorist to let me by and didn't drive recklessly in any other way. I pulled in for the garda immediately and explained to him that I didn't see the sign but he said the charge was automatic.


The last photo was taken from the footpath while I was standing directly underneath the sign to demonstrate that there is muck all over it. It's not possible to get that view of it from the road and you can see on Google Maps there's also a telephone pole blocking the view of it on approach.

The glare would have affected my view of the light as well and the arrow on the road is totally faded. I'm going to appeal it regardless as I genuinely didn't know that what I was doing is illegal and I really don't think I should be punished for a genuine mistake. People saying "what if it was a pedestrian" - it wasn't a pedestrian, it was me overlooking a road sign and another driver flashing me safely past with absolutely no danger to anyone.

Or was he flashing you to warn that you were doing something wrong on the road?

Seriously man, the traffic lights, sign and road markings are very clear and others have posted links. Even when you got up close to the sign its your responsibility as a driver to take note of all road signs, you didnt take note of this one and got caught.

HanaleiJ5N

Okay, having seen the pictures of the sign and road markings, I do sympathise, can easily see how this could have happened, particularly with someone unfamiliar with the area. But, even if it could do with a wipe, that sign is the killer, you'll be very lucky to successfully appeal this in my opinion unfortunately.

coolbeans

A green arrow light pointing straight ahead and similar on road means that you can go straight ahead, not right. OP missed one of three indicators. Take your medicine would be my advice.

Kimbot

HanaleiJ5N wrote: »

Okay, having seen the pictures of the sign and road markings, I do sympathise, can easily see how this could have happened, particularly with someone unfamiliar with the area. But, even if it could do with a wipe, that sign is the killer, you'll be very lucky to successfully appeal this in my opinion unfortunately.

Who said the OP is unfamiliar with the area? His location is cork and this happened in Cork so he could know the area very well and this be along a route he take plenty of times.

godtabh

sjb25 wrote: »

Case closed m'lord

that's a secondary signal. The primary signal only has straight ahead.

Could also be argued that you were driving to fast for the conditions to see the sign (which is clear in google maps)

Quoted wrong post

05eaftqbrs9jlh

kooga wrote: »

was it your first visit to Cork?

everybody knows you cant make that right...............................its up there with making the right turn from capwell onto the douglas road in front of the southern star!

I've lived in the area for three years and seen thousands of people making that right turn. I wasn't observant of the fact that it was illegal until I was stopped, but that's not the issue. The issue is that on this particular occasion, visibility was bad and the signs in place were not adequate due to disrepair.

jonnycivic wrote: »

Or was he flashing you to warn that you were doing something wrong on the road?

Seriously man, the traffic lights, sign and road markings are very clear and others have posted links. Even when you got up close to the sign its your responsibility as a driver to take note of all road signs, you didnt take note of this one and got caught.

I didn't NOT TAKE NOTE of it. I couldn't see it. I couldn't see the arrow on the road because it was faded and I couldn't see the arrow light due to poor visibility from the glare of the sunlight. The sign is covered in gunk and was also obscured in shadow.

The person who let me go flashed his lights and stopped even though his way was clear; this indicates to me that he is aware of my intended action and is facilitating it. Flashing at somebody when they're doing something wrong really only works if you're behind them. Facing them, you should really beep or they'll think you're letting them pass.

godtabh wrote: »

that's a secondary signal. The primary signal only has straight ahead.

Could also be argued that you were driving to fast for the conditions to see the sign (which is clear in google maps)

Quoted wrong post

Thanks for the tip. I was driving about 10km/h. Any time I was facing South I had to, because the glare was making it almost impossible to see. Stupid daylight savings time like.

cnocbui

Stheno wrote: »

Really? It's perfectly clear to me. Polarised sunglasses are great for minimising the effect of glare

The sign is only legible in the sign/glare photo, which is taken from a position where a car would almost be abreast of it and it would possibly be out of a drivers main field of view.

Polarising sunglasses do not counteract glare directly from the sun, as in reducing the contrast between the sun and a silhouette. They only reduce light reflected from first surfaces such as from glass or water or the road, in this case. They would have no advantage over normal sunglasses in this situation except maybe in reducing the glare from the road slightly, which isn't causing the problem here.

sjb25

Rogelio Dry Sympathy wrote: »

the Garda took a look at the photos and said he'd be very interested to see how it turned out.

.....

Kimbot

Rogelio Dry Sympathy wrote: »

I've lived in the area for three years and seen thousands of people making that right turn. I wasn't observant of the fact that it was illegal until I was stopped, but that's not the issue. The issue is that on this particular occasion, visibility was bad and the signs in place were not adequate due to disrepair.


I didn't NOT TAKE NOTE of it. I couldn't see it. I couldn't see the arrow on the road because it was faded and I couldn't see the arrow light due to poor visibility from the glare of the sunlight. The sign is covered in gunk and was also obscured in shadow.

The person who let me go flashed his lights and stopped even though his way was clear; this indicates to me that he is aware of my intended action and is facilitating it. Flashing at somebody when they're doing something wrong really only works if you're behind them. Facing them, you should really beep or they'll think you're letting them pass.

Sorry but you are in the area a number of years and your telling me that not once in that 3 year period you did not see this sign that is as clear as day. OP you really are true to your name on this occassion.

In this link the sign is clearly visable: https://www.google.ie/maps/@51.8876539,-8.4555205,3a,75y,148.19h,74.3t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sEjGV_ArDboilifecoTMBAg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

And if you look on the right hand side you will notice that there is 5 houses in between the sign and that point which is well beyond enough time to react to the sign.

The actual issue your having is the fact you were caught tbh. As I already pointed out, your a driver and its your responsibility to familiarise yourself with the roads you use and in 3 years you never once took note of a very important sign.

sjb25

Rogelio Dry Sympathy wrote: »

I've lived in the area for three years

And you never in 3 years noticed the sign or the big massive white arrow on the road

Cmon OP nobody likes getting fined or get caught making a mistake but you did think you should just pay the fine but if you want to appeal and u believe you are right you work away fair play

Isambard

bang to rights OP, not even worth fetching the popcorn, thread going nowhere

05eaftqbrs9jlh

jonnycivic wrote: »

Sorry but you are in the area a number of years and your telling me that not once in that 3 year period you did not see this sign that is as clear as day. OP you really are true to your name on this occassion.

In this link the sign is clearly visable: https://www.google.ie/maps/@51.8876539,-8.4555205,3a,75y,148.19h,74.3t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sEjGV_ArDboilifecoTMBAg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

And if you look on the right hand side you will notice that there is 5 houses in between the sign and that point which is well beyond enough time to react to the sign.

The actual issue your having is the fact you were caught tbh. As I already pointed out, your a driver and its your responsibility to familiarise yourself with the roads you use and in 3 years you never once took note of a very important sign.

Exactly, and once when I was waiting for another car to turn right at that junction a lorry driver behind us started beeping furiously, which confused me because I noticed that there was no "No Right Turn" sign visible anywhere around the junction (because it's five houses back from the fricking light and there's none on the right-hand traffic light.

It's a poorly-marked junction and an arrow light alone is not sufficient to mark that you cannot turn right, especially instances like mine where there is poor visibility because of intense sunlight. If there had been an arrow sign on the traffic light I might have stood some chance, but I'm appealing it because even as a regular user of that road I could not find a "no right turn sign" and I've actually looked.

I was as surprised as anyone to be pulled over and explained my position to the Garda. I'm glad to know that it's an illegal turn now but I'm still going to appeal the FCN because it was not apparent enough that what I was doing was not allowed. It should be more clearly marked on the road and that is definitely a fact.

Somebody saying that I'll have to pay a higher fine if I appeal it, I'm pretty sure that's only if you don't manage to pay the fine within 25 days and I intend to correspond with them every day until it's sorted. I don't want the point on my licence because the two I got several years ago for speeding are gone in a few months.

HanaleiJ5N

jonnycivic wrote: »

Who said the OP is unfamiliar with the area? His location is cork and this happened in Cork so he could know the area very well and this be along a route he take plenty of times.

Read the post again, I did not say the OP was unfamiliar with the area.

Stheno

Rogelio Dry Sympathy wrote: »

Exactly, and once when I was waiting for another car to turn right at that junction a lorry driver behind us started beeping furiously, which confused me because I noticed that there was no "No Right Turn" sign visible anywhere around the junction (because it's five houses back from the fricking light and there's none on the right-hand traffic light.

It's a poorly-marked junction and an arrow light alone is not sufficient to mark that you cannot turn right, especially instances like mine where there is poor visibility because of intense sunlight. If there had been an arrow sign on the traffic light I might have stood some chance, but I'm appealing it because even as a regular user of that road I could not find a "no right turn sign" and I've actually looked.

I was as surprised as anyone to be pulled over and explained my position to the Garda. I'm glad to know that it's an illegal turn now but I'm still going to appeal the FCN because it was not apparent enough that what I was doing was not allowed. It should be more clearly marked on the road and that is definitely a fact.

Somebody saying that I'll have to pay a higher fine if I appeal it, I'm pretty sure that's only if you don't manage to pay the fine within 25 days and I intend to correspond with them every day until it's sorted. I don't want the point on my licence because the two I got several years ago for speeding are gone in a few months.

The sign looks to be a couple of metres before the light?

Poorly marked? There's the sign the straight ahead light and the arrow on the road? What more do you want?

degsie

Rogelio Dry Sympathy wrote: »

an arrow light alone is not sufficient to mark that you cannot turn right

you may consider re-sitting the driving test

sjb25

Rogelio Dry Sympathy wrote: »

. It should be more clearly marked on the road and that is definitely a fact .

This is your picture of that junction
I have never been in this area before but that big white arrow on the road alone tells me straight ahead only yes it's not freshly painted but you cannot say it's not clearly visible and it is also a legal road marking in the rules of the road that you contravened
But look you are right we are wrong go ahead and appeal best of luck to you

coolbeans

Stheno wrote: »

There's the sign the straight ahead light and the arrow on the road? QUOTE]

You haven't a hope OP. You weren't aware of your surrounding and disobeyed the light and the straight ahead arrow...and that's a fact too.

Kimbot

Rogelio Dry Sympathy wrote: »

Exactly, and once when I was waiting for another car to turn right at that junction a lorry driver behind us started beeping furiously, which confused me because I noticed that there was no "No Right Turn" sign visible anywhere around the junction (because it's five houses back from the fricking light and there's none on the right-hand traffic light.

It's a poorly-marked junction and an arrow light alone is not sufficient to mark that you cannot turn right, especially instances like mine where there is poor visibility because of intense sunlight. If there had been an arrow sign on the traffic light I might have stood some chance, but I'm appealing it because even as a regular user of that road I could not find a "no right turn sign" and I've actually looked.

I was as surprised as anyone to be pulled over and explained my position to the Garda. I'm glad to know that it's an illegal turn now but I'm still going to appeal the FCN because it was not apparent enough that what I was doing was not allowed. It should be more clearly marked on the road and that is definitely a fact.

Somebody saying that I'll have to pay a higher fine if I appeal it, I'm pretty sure that's only if you don't manage to pay the fine within 25 days and I intend to correspond with them every day until it's sorted. I don't want the point on my licence because the two I got several years ago for speeding are gone in a few months.

No.... reread my post and look at the link I posted again, the picture is from 5 houses back and you can clearly see the sign up ahead (I never said the sign is 5 houses away from the lights because its right beside the dam things). You failed to take note of the signs so that ones completely on you. Appeal it but I would gladly put money on you taking double the points and fine.

Also just because there was glare today doesnt mean there is glare every day there so how many hundreds of times have you made that illegal turn thats as obvious as anything.

dolallyoh

I can sympathise with OP though.

This one is my current bug bear - complained the day it was finished but still there 2 years later.

https://goo.gl/maps/84gqYNznZWP2

If you come around that corner as the megane is doing you will find yourself going head first into a car if you aren't aware of the design in advance.

05eaftqbrs9jlh

I love how definitively people are saying it won't win an appeal. If it was you getting the fine and point for something you genuinely did by mistake, I bet you would appeal it too. The Garda in the station I spoke to wasn't being sarcastic, he took a good look at my photos and listened to what I told him and said earnestly that he'd be interested to see how my appeal went.

The reason I'm appealing it is because it is objectively a poorly marked junction, and I say that as somebody who has LOOKED for the no right turn sign and not found it in the past. The arrow light should have a "No Right Turn" arrow beneath it because the sign on the left of the road is too far back. The arrow on the ground was not visible because I was in a queue of traffic and the traffic light was not visible because of the glare. The only thing I really stand to lose is the appeal itself but I stand to gain a revoked fine and point and could potentially make a junction I use regularly safer for all road users with better markings.

ncmc

OP the issue here seems to be the glare of the sun rather than the sign, road markings and traffic light not being clear. In that case, you need to take extra care and adjust your driving to the conditions. If you crash in to the back of another car when it's raining and stopping distance is reduced, you're still at fault for the incident, you didn't adjust your driving to the conditions. I'm afraid you don't have much of a case.

Kimbot

dolallyoh wrote: »

I can sympathise with OP though.

This one is my current bug bear - complained the day it was finished but still there 2 years later.

https://goo.gl/maps/84gqYNznZWP2

If you come around that corner as the megane is doing you will find yourself going head first into a car if you aren't aware of the design in advance.

I see the lines arent exactly right but apart from that if a car turning left at that junction hits another car head on then they are just careless and taking the corner far too wide, theres plenty of space to get around that corner.

Torcaill

Undue care and attention springs to mind. You sure you weren't chasing pokemon?

Kimbot

Rogelio Dry Sympathy wrote: »

I love how definitively people are saying it won't win an appeal. If it was you getting the fine and point for something you genuinely did by mistake, I bet you would appeal it too. The Garda in the station I spoke to wasn't being sarcastic, he took a good look at my photos and listened to what I told him and said earnestly that he'd be interested to see how my appeal went.

The reason I'm appealing it is because it is objectively a poorly marked junction, and I say that as somebody who has LOOKED for the no right turn sign and not found it in the past. The arrow light should have a "No Right Turn" arrow beneath it because the sign on the left of the road is too far back. The arrow on the ground was not visible because I was in a queue of traffic and the traffic light was not visible because of the glare. The only thing I really stand to lose is the appeal itself but I stand to gain a revoked fine and point and could potentially make a junction I use regularly safer for all road users with better markings.

Well if you havent copped that sign in three years of driving on that road then you may need to book an appointment with specsavers. Once missing the sign I can understand but missing it numerous times over a 3 year period just screams of "I dont care, I'll do what I want"

dolallyoh

jonnycivic wrote: »

I see the lines arent exactly right but apart from that if a car turning left at that junction hits another car head on then they are just careless and taking the corner far too wide, theres plenty of space to get around that corner.

Yes of course - drive around it at 15mph - no worries, I agree with you.

There is a misleading middle line near the B in blackthorn giving the impression that that is the midway part of the road.

blackwhite

Rogelio Dry Sympathy wrote: »

I didn't NOT TAKE NOTE of it. I couldn't see it. I couldn't see the arrow on the road because it was faded and I couldn't see the arrow light due to poor visibility from the glare of the sunlight. The sign is covered in gunk and was also obscured in shadow.

If you couldn't see the arrow, how did you know you had a green light to proceed?

You claim to have driven this road for three years; then your observation skills must be lacking - or was the sun glaring every other time you've driven the road too?

blackwhite

jonnycivic wrote: »

I see the lines arent exactly right but apart from that if a car turning left at that junction hits another car head on then they are just careless and taking the corner far too wide, theres plenty of space to get around that corner.

Think that poster must have been caught on the google camera :pac:

https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.27793,-6.2067405,3a,75y,319.13h,75.35t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sdfoS7-vvtHfMYMCHoO4cmg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1

whippet

The OP is just clutching at straws here. The guards would have looked at the photos to humour him rather than having a row about it. Plus it's not the Gardas job to argue about the photos .. that is for a judge. The guard witnessed an illegal right hand turn .. the rest is up to either a FPN or if the OP really wants to waste their time, money and increased points, a judge

As an aside ... if you couldn't see the green arrow how did you know you had a green light? So either you are driving around in conditions you are not competent to do or you know full well you just got caught and want to chance your arm

degsie

op mentioned that once before he was held up behind a car making this illegal right turn while a truck behind him was blasting the horn.

Assuming 'glare' wasn't an issue in this instance, he still did not cop on about the no right turn. I would question this drivers ability to note simple observations, and given the penalty points already got for speeding, his general behavior on the roads.

Judge will have a field day.