Stopped by Gardaí with FCN

05eaftqbrs9jlh

Hello,

I'm just wondering about this FCN I was stopped by Gardaí with in Cork this morning. The Garda said I had made an illegal right turn onto the Cross Douglas Road (coming from the town side), but I maintained that I hadn't seen the sign. On my way back that way, I parked nearby and walked along the footpath to look. I concluded that a combination of the glare from the sun, the dirt on the sign and the fact that there was foliage obstructing the sign would have made it impossible for me to see it.

I've included some photos I took. I'm definitely going to appeal it, I'm just wondering are the grounds "Detection/Material Issue" or "Exceptional Circumstances" on the FCN Cancellation Request form?

https://us.v-cdn.net/6034073/uploads/attachments/776619/402228.jpg
The approach to the junction where the glare does not obstruct the sign. Sign not visible at this distance.

https://us.v-cdn.net/6034073/uploads/attachments/776619/402230.jpg
The sunlight glare on approach, sign completely invisible.

https://us.v-cdn.net/6034073/uploads/attachments/776619/402231.jpg
Again, sign is not visible from this point, nor is it anywhere near the stopping line for where one would be turning at that junction. There is no sign on the traffic light at the right-hand side of the road by the flower shop.

https://us.v-cdn.net/6034073/uploads/attachments/776619/402232.jpg
You can see the outline of the sign at this point but because it's so dirty and because of the glare, it isn't possible to see what it says.

https://us.v-cdn.net/6034073/uploads/attachments/776619/402229.jpg
The sign has a layer of grey residue over it, making it very hard to see. There are also branches hanging all around it which obstruct the view.

Please let me know what you think about the situation, if you have knowledge of the process or if something like this has ever happened to you.

Stheno

Sign looks pretty visible in that last picture tbh

Alanstrainor

I would presume you could see better from the road rather than the path. And your eye is far better than a camera at looking into the sun. Just because the photos are very dark doesn't mean anything. Can you link to the stretch of road on a map?

sjb25

Stheno wrote: »

Sign looks pretty visible in that last picture tbh

Would have said the same

Buy a pair of sunglasses OP

iwillhtfu

Regardless of the sign.

Take another look at the Green arrow I can't see you winning this one op.

Pay the fine and move on

cnocbui

Stheno wrote: »

Sign looks pretty visible in that last picture tbh

Sign looks like a black silhoutte to me in that last photo.

Sunglasses don't make anything silhouetted any more legible. They just make it darker just as they darken the sunlight.

Stheno

cnocbui wrote: »

Sign looks like a black silhoutte to me in that last photo.

Sunglasses don't make anything silhouetted any more legible. They just make it darker just as they darken the sunlight.

Really? It's perfectly clear to me. Polarised sunglasses are great for minimising the effect of glare

kona

Fine and a point on the license. Ouch. I'd just pay unless you can get the gard to stop the process.

iwillhtfu

cnocbui wrote: »

Sign looks like a black silhoutte to me in that last photo.

Sunglasses don't make anything silhouetted any more legible. They just make it darker just as they darken the sunlight.

Stheno wrote: »

Really? It's perfectly clear to me. Polarised sunglasses are great for minimising the effect of glare

Ye are looking at different pics the pics are out of sync from descriptive to quick links.

Last photo it's perfectly clear.

https://us.v-cdn.net/6034073/uploads/attachments/776619/402229.jpg

05eaftqbrs9jlh

This is the Google Street View Co-Ordinates.

Even in Maps you can't see the sign as it skips past it because it's so far back from the junction. Sunglasses would just have made the shadows darker, as the other poster said.

"Pay the fine and move on" is something I won't be doing, because when I was handing my licence in the Garda took a look at the photos and said he'd be very interested to see how it turned out.

RayCun

Alanstrainor wrote: »

I would presume you could see better from the road rather than the path. And your eye is far better than a camera at looking into the sun. Just because the photos are very dark doesn't mean anything. Can you link to the stretch of road on a map?

https://www.google.ie/maps/@51.8876539,-8.4555205,3a,75y,139.19h,61.64t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sEjGV_ArDboilifecoTMBAg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

iwillhtfu

Rogelio Dry Sympathy wrote: »

Even in Maps you can't see the sign as it skips past it because it's so far back from the junction. Sunglasses would just have made the shadows darker, as the other poster said.

"Pay the fine and move on" is something I won't be doing, because when I was handing my licence in the Garda took a look at the photos and said he'd be very interested to see how it turned out.

It's not a matter of pay the fine and move on. You're wrong an further action will be out of stubbornness so by all means go ahead.

You need to take another look at the rules of the road handbook and perhaps a trip to spec savers. God forbid it was someone stepping out onto the road. :eek:

Kimbot

Rogelio Dry Sympathy wrote: »

This is the Google Street View Co-Ordinates.

Even in Maps you can't see the sign as it skips past it because it's so far back from the junction. Sunglasses would just have made the shadows darker, as the other poster said.

"Pay the fine and move on" is something I won't be doing, because when I was handing my licence in the Garda took a look at the photos and said he'd be very interested to see how it turned out.

Nope, I zoomed forward one spot and this is clear as day to view so OP you havent a leg to stand on in this case im afraid.

https://www.google.ie/maps/@51.8875851,-8.4554248,3a,75y,129.51h,100.16t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sPanGwbVq0sT6e75zRRTHgw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

sjb25

OSI wrote: »

What about the arrow on the road and the filtered traffic light both showing straight ahead only OP?

Case closed m'lord

Homer

TinyChancer by name.. also by nature :P

Stheno

Rogelio Dry Sympathy wrote: »

This is the Google Street View Co-Ordinates.

Even in Maps you can't see the sign as it skips past it because it's so far back from the junction. Sunglasses would just have made the shadows darker, as the other poster said.

"Pay the fine and move on" is something I won't be doing, because when I was handing my licence in the Garda took a look at the photos and said he'd be very interested to see how it turned out.

From street view link you've posted I can see the sign, the straight only arrow in the road and the straight only green light!

GavMan

3rd link the sign is visible, Although diminished.

However, the traffic light and road marking have you bang to rights. Pay up and move on

05eaftqbrs9jlh

Stheno wrote: »

Really? It's perfectly clear to me. Polarised sunglasses are great for minimising the effect of glare

Which long view can you see the sign clearly from? I wasn't wearing sunglasses and didn't see the sign. I waited for another motorist to let me by and didn't drive recklessly in any other way. I pulled in for the garda immediately and explained to him that I didn't see the sign but he said the charge was automatic.

iwillhtfu wrote: »

Ye are looking at different pics the pics are out of sync from descriptive to quick links.

Last photo it's perfectly clear.

The last photo was taken from the footpath while I was standing directly underneath the sign to demonstrate that there is muck all over it. It's not possible to get that view of it from the road and you can see on Google Maps there's also a telephone pole blocking the view of it on approach.

The glare would have affected my view of the light as well and the arrow on the road is totally faded. I'm going to appeal it regardless as I genuinely didn't know that what I was doing is illegal and I really don't think I should be punished for a genuine mistake. People saying "what if it was a pedestrian" - it wasn't a pedestrian, it was me overlooking a road sign and another driver flashing me safely past with absolutely no danger to anyone.

HanaleiJ5N wrote: »

Can you link to the turn off on google maps? What are the road markings like at the end of the road you turned in to?

https://www.google.ie/maps/@51.8874471,-8.4552322,3a,75y,149.13h,99.72t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s2EUhcAohmqVNusTZAwF2RA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Atomicjuicer0

I reckon the op is right to say the sign isn't visible enough.

kooga

was it your first visit to Cork?

everybody knows you cant make that right...............................its up there with making the right turn from capwell onto the douglas road in front of the southern star!

sjb25

Atomicjuicer0 wrote: »

I reckon the op is right to say the sign isn't visible enough.

I can see it
but ok fair enough possibly what about the road markings and traffic light arrow "hints"

GM228

Atomicjuicer0 wrote: »

I reckon the op is right to say the sign isn't visible enough.

Even if it isn't there's also the issue of the arrow and filter light as already pointed out which are pretty clear!

Kimbot

Rogelio Dry Sympathy wrote: »

Which long view can you see the sign clearly from? I wasn't wearing sunglasses and didn't see the sign. I waited for another motorist to let me by and didn't drive recklessly in any other way. I pulled in for the garda immediately and explained to him that I didn't see the sign but he said the charge was automatic.


The last photo was taken from the footpath while I was standing directly underneath the sign to demonstrate that there is muck all over it. It's not possible to get that view of it from the road and you can see on Google Maps there's also a telephone pole blocking the view of it on approach.

The glare would have affected my view of the light as well and the arrow on the road is totally faded. I'm going to appeal it regardless as I genuinely didn't know that what I was doing is illegal and I really don't think I should be punished for a genuine mistake. People saying "what if it was a pedestrian" - it wasn't a pedestrian, it was me overlooking a road sign and another driver flashing me safely past with absolutely no danger to anyone.

Or was he flashing you to warn that you were doing something wrong on the road?

Seriously man, the traffic lights, sign and road markings are very clear and others have posted links. Even when you got up close to the sign its your responsibility as a driver to take note of all road signs, you didnt take note of this one and got caught.

HanaleiJ5N

Okay, having seen the pictures of the sign and road markings, I do sympathise, can easily see how this could have happened, particularly with someone unfamiliar with the area. But, even if it could do with a wipe, that sign is the killer, you'll be very lucky to successfully appeal this in my opinion unfortunately.

coolbeans

A green arrow light pointing straight ahead and similar on road means that you can go straight ahead, not right. OP missed one of three indicators. Take your medicine would be my advice.

Kimbot

HanaleiJ5N wrote: »

Okay, having seen the pictures of the sign and road markings, I do sympathise, can easily see how this could have happened, particularly with someone unfamiliar with the area. But, even if it could do with a wipe, that sign is the killer, you'll be very lucky to successfully appeal this in my opinion unfortunately.

Who said the OP is unfamiliar with the area? His location is cork and this happened in Cork so he could know the area very well and this be along a route he take plenty of times.

godtabh

sjb25 wrote: »

Case closed m'lord

that's a secondary signal. The primary signal only has straight ahead.

Could also be argued that you were driving to fast for the conditions to see the sign (which is clear in google maps)

Quoted wrong post

05eaftqbrs9jlh

kooga wrote: »

was it your first visit to Cork?

everybody knows you cant make that right...............................its up there with making the right turn from capwell onto the douglas road in front of the southern star!

I've lived in the area for three years and seen thousands of people making that right turn. I wasn't observant of the fact that it was illegal until I was stopped, but that's not the issue. The issue is that on this particular occasion, visibility was bad and the signs in place were not adequate due to disrepair.

jonnycivic wrote: »

Or was he flashing you to warn that you were doing something wrong on the road?

Seriously man, the traffic lights, sign and road markings are very clear and others have posted links. Even when you got up close to the sign its your responsibility as a driver to take note of all road signs, you didnt take note of this one and got caught.

I didn't NOT TAKE NOTE of it. I couldn't see it. I couldn't see the arrow on the road because it was faded and I couldn't see the arrow light due to poor visibility from the glare of the sunlight. The sign is covered in gunk and was also obscured in shadow.

The person who let me go flashed his lights and stopped even though his way was clear; this indicates to me that he is aware of my intended action and is facilitating it. Flashing at somebody when they're doing something wrong really only works if you're behind them. Facing them, you should really beep or they'll think you're letting them pass.

godtabh wrote: »

that's a secondary signal. The primary signal only has straight ahead.

Could also be argued that you were driving to fast for the conditions to see the sign (which is clear in google maps)

Quoted wrong post

Thanks for the tip. I was driving about 10km/h. Any time I was facing South I had to, because the glare was making it almost impossible to see. Stupid daylight savings time like.

cnocbui

Stheno wrote: »

Really? It's perfectly clear to me. Polarised sunglasses are great for minimising the effect of glare

The sign is only legible in the sign/glare photo, which is taken from a position where a car would almost be abreast of it and it would possibly be out of a drivers main field of view.

Polarising sunglasses do not counteract glare directly from the sun, as in reducing the contrast between the sun and a silhouette. They only reduce light reflected from first surfaces such as from glass or water or the road, in this case. They would have no advantage over normal sunglasses in this situation except maybe in reducing the glare from the road slightly, which isn't causing the problem here.

sjb25

Rogelio Dry Sympathy wrote: »

the Garda took a look at the photos and said he'd be very interested to see how it turned out.

.....

Kimbot

Rogelio Dry Sympathy wrote: »

I've lived in the area for three years and seen thousands of people making that right turn. I wasn't observant of the fact that it was illegal until I was stopped, but that's not the issue. The issue is that on this particular occasion, visibility was bad and the signs in place were not adequate due to disrepair.


I didn't NOT TAKE NOTE of it. I couldn't see it. I couldn't see the arrow on the road because it was faded and I couldn't see the arrow light due to poor visibility from the glare of the sunlight. The sign is covered in gunk and was also obscured in shadow.

The person who let me go flashed his lights and stopped even though his way was clear; this indicates to me that he is aware of my intended action and is facilitating it. Flashing at somebody when they're doing something wrong really only works if you're behind them. Facing them, you should really beep or they'll think you're letting them pass.

Sorry but you are in the area a number of years and your telling me that not once in that 3 year period you did not see this sign that is as clear as day. OP you really are true to your name on this occassion.

In this link the sign is clearly visable: https://www.google.ie/maps/@51.8876539,-8.4555205,3a,75y,148.19h,74.3t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sEjGV_ArDboilifecoTMBAg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

And if you look on the right hand side you will notice that there is 5 houses in between the sign and that point which is well beyond enough time to react to the sign.

The actual issue your having is the fact you were caught tbh. As I already pointed out, your a driver and its your responsibility to familiarise yourself with the roads you use and in 3 years you never once took note of a very important sign.