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Christmas Issues
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I think the OP is getting treated quite harshly here. What he wants is to spend Christmas with the woman he loves, opening presents and enjoying each other's company for possibly the only year they'll spend it alone and instead he has to spend it with a bunch if people who don't like Christmas, a dying grandmother, and an empty flat to go back to.
Someone said that the last thin they'd want is to ask their partner to leave their family early to sit in public transport, well it cuts both ways doesn't it? Surely SHE shouldn't want her fiancé to spend Christmas practically alone and thoroughly miserable because she can't be arsed to get a bus a couple of hours earlier.
The OP loves Christmas and by the sounds of it has never had a proper one. The first one he was looking forward to has been scuppered because of his gran's ill-health, and his fiancée cannot be arsed to forego going round the houses to be with him. Sounds to me like if he's selfish the so is she.
She is being selfish yes, but doesn't mean should spend Christmas in a house that doesn't celebrate Christmas. They both seem SO inflexible, it's actually ridiculous!0 -
Nobody is asking her to spend Christmas in a house that doesn't celebrate Christmas. Where did you get that from? She is being asked to stay in Dublin for a couple of extra hours!
Have people even read the OP's posts??0 -
GingerLily wrote: »She is being selfish yes, but doesn't mean should spend Christmas in a house that doesn't celebrate Christmas. They both seem SO inflexible, it's actually ridiculous!
Never suggested she come to my mam's not at all. I just wanted a half day christmas eve in our own place doing our own thing enjoying a bit of christmas together.
we don't particularly get on with each others family's so no wouldn't be overly minded to go to each others parent's but i don't see much of a problem with that to be honest.0 -
How often does your fiance see her family otherwise? She sees you every day.0
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How often does your fiance see her family otherwise? She sees you every day.
not quite everyday but most we have pretty busy jobs with a fair bit of Travel.
we usually see our family's once a month , she goes down to kildare for a day , i try to get out to my granny's on my own usually once every two weeks or so , wouldn't see my mum or my sister really any more regularly then she sees hers. I go months without seeing my aunts unless n cousins but it doesn't overly trouble me id see that as fairly normal.
Her mam ,her sister and the rest of her family never come up where as my folks would drop in the odd time with my nan or on their own for a cup of tea or whatever. I meet my Da maybe once a week for lunch because we work in the same place , but her dads not around so probably no point comparing there. Oh and we've taken my little cousin for an overnight a few times because shes an only child and a bit lonely.
I don't really see what relevance that has towords Christmas , its still a a special time of year we both enjoy and id like to spend a little bit of time with her and id like her to want to spend a little bit of time with e doing couply stuff at Christmas as well as the family stuff.0 -
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Walter H Price wrote: »We've donr that every other year and to be honest it's bin grand , but this year we had specifcly agreed to do actual christmas together given next years will be manic between getting married the honeymoon and possibly moving house.
OP, I do think some people are being a little bit harsh here, but I can also see where they're coming from. You've accused your fiance of "taking advantage" and "taking the piss" yet YOU'RE the one who changed the plans. You can't moan about how this is so unfair because you had specifically made plans to be together. You're the one who changed those plans. To her, you spending Christmas Day with your family (for completely understandable reasons by the way, I'm not arguing that) has completely altered your original plans of spending Christmas together.
I don't think she's taking the piss (as you so delightfully put it), I think there's a miscommunication going on with you both. As far as she's concerned, you've changed the Christmas plans you made together so, in her mind, of course you're both going to revert back to how you've spent Christmases to date. Family is obviously a big deal for her and she probably doesn't get to see her family as much as she wants. Her Christmas is your idea of hell, but she clearly loves it. However you saying over and over again how it's your idea of hell doesn't change the fact that she loves it. You say you see your family about the same amount as she sees hers, but that seems to be more out of choice than out of circumstance.
This just seems like one giant miscommunication and it feels like you're projecting a lot of worry for the future on this one incident. Treat it as a one-off incident that you had a major hand in and stop panicking about Christmases ten years in the future on the basis of this.0 -
OP, I do think some people are being a little bit harsh here, but I can also see where they're coming from. You've accused your fiance of "taking advantage" and "taking the piss" yet YOU'RE the one who changed the plans. You can't moan about how this is so unfair because you had specifically made plans to be together. You're the one who changed those plans. To her, you spending Christmas Day with your family (for completely understandable reasons by the way, I'm not arguing that) has completely altered your original plans of spending Christmas together.
I don't think she's taking the piss (as you so delightfully put it), I think there's a miscommunication going on with you both. As far as she's concerned, you've changed the Christmas plans you made together so, in her mind, of course you're both going to revert back to how you've spent Christmases to date. Family is obviously a big deal for her and she probably doesn't get to see her family as much as she wants. Her Christmas is your idea of hell, but she clearly loves it. However you saying over and over again how it's your idea of hell doesn't change the fact that she loves it. You say you see your family about the same amount as she sees hers, but that seems to be more out of choice than out of circumstance.
This just seems like one giant miscommunication and it feels like you're projecting a lot of worry for the future on this one incident. Treat it as a one-off incident that you had a major hand in and stop panicking about Christmases ten years in the future on the basis of this.
i know i changed the plans but i was reluctantly and she knew that , she also knew i didn't want us to spend the full three days apart that was made pretty clear , it was only in terms of her making those plans that i thought she was being a bit harsh like.0 -
Whether the plans changed enthusiastically, reluctantly or under duress makes no difference whatsoever to the end result which is the plans have changed. I do agree that she should compromise and leave a bit later on Christmas Eve to get to spend some of the day with you. But I can also sympathise with her not wanting to spend hours on buses for the sake of a very short trip home to accommodate your changed plans. I think you're getting harsh responses here because you're not acknowledging your role in this at all and you in turn are being very harsh on your fiancee when you've had a big role to play in this.0
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Whether the plans changed enthusiastically, reluctantly or under duress makes no difference whatsoever to the end result which is the plans have changed. I do agree that she should compromise and leave a bit later on Christmas Eve to get to spend some of the day with you. But I can also sympathise with her not wanting to spend hours on buses for the sake of a very short trip home to accommodate your changed plans. I think you're getting harsh responses here because you're not acknowledging your role in this at all and you in turn are being very harsh on your fiancee when you've had a big role to play in this.
No to be honest i've fully held my hands up on this i know i changed the game here , with regards Christmas day and i did talk to her a good bit about it at the time but i still think she was a bit harsh deciding Christmas day changing meant go for all three days when we had pretty much agreed otherwise.
She has to do the bus thing either way and she dose it up and back once a month for less time so i dont really feel to bad on that front.0 -
I think a lot of the harshness in the OP's post(s) comes from a sense of hurt that their fiance didn't even consider that OP might want her to spend some time with them. As K_P says, the mood while changing plans is largely unimportant, but I think it is quite (probably unintentionally) thoughtless of her not to consider that OP would like to spend time with her around Christmas.
@OP Are you back to work the 27th? Could you go out then? Would you both be able to get the 23rd off and make an evening/day of it then? You might find it's better on the 23rd as it wouldn't be quite as black in town.0 -
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gaynorvader wrote: »I think a lot of the harshness in the OP's post(s) comes from a sense of hurt that their fiance didn't even consider that OP might want her to spend some time with them. As K_P says, the mood while changing plans is largely unimportant, but I think it is quite (probably unintentionally) thoughtless of her not to consider that OP would like to spend time with her around Christmas.
@OP Are you back to work the 27th? Could you go out then? Would you both be able to get the 23rd off and make an evening/day of it then? You might find it's better on the 23rd as it wouldn't be quite as black in town.
That's the other issue this year that we havnt encountered previously actually we don't have any time to take off either side of Christmas because we have both gotten new jobs in the past month and we are going away just after new year so working right up to Christmas eve and back the 27th to the 30th then were off and away on holidays for a week straight after.
The weekend immediately before Christmas is out too because she is going to get her dress and im going for a suit fitting the saturday , shes at her family kris kindle in Kildare the sunday and im going out for lunch with my other Granny who we dont have on christmas that sunday and the week before that again were in Bermingham for a villa game and the christmas markets then shes in london for a week with work.0 -
Walter H Price wrote: »She has to do the bus thing either way and she dose it up and back once a month for less time so i dont really feel to bad on that front.
She does it on standard weekends throughout the year which are completely different to Christmas. I'm not saying you should feel bad about your fiancee having to travel a long journey to see her family, that's not your doing. But you should keep in mind that she doesn't get to see her family in the same way you do because of the distance. You choose not to see your family. She's forced not to by circumstance which makes the big family gatherings that take place at Christmas all the more special to her. I can understand how and why it would be a wrench for her to leave early and travel back to Dublin on Stephen's Day just as lots of family are arriving.0 -
Op,
You are going on holidays together where you will be spending more time together. I actually had some sympathy for you before but seriously? I was going to say that probably a lot of people don't consider Christmas a 'couple' holiday but a 'family' one where family is considered more than two people. I would have no desire spending Christmas just with my partner before and even now that we have kids we both spend Christmas day and eve with his family. We also come over for leftover dinner the next day. Sometimes we then fly out to visit my family and he has to spend a week or so bored there.
Your girlfriend's attitude possibly is a bit selfish, it's hard to tell considering the travel time, you two disliking each other's families, cats, changes of plans and similar but I really think you are making too much of a big deal out of it.0 -
Ah here you're going on hols together a week after? I think you need to have a long hard look at yourself here and ask why exactly are you doing this? There is something in you that wants to put a halt to her having an enjoyable Christmas with her family because you're aware that yours will be less than pleasant. Why do that to someone you love? I'm not sure why people are suddenly feeling sorry for you, I'm sure that's only gone and added more fuel to your fire. Be thankful that she has lovely people in her life who enjoy her company and want to see her for a few hours in the year and let her go. If your Christmas ends up being is as miserable as you say it will be, be thankful that a week from then you'll be on holidays while everyone else is going back to work, two stone heavier and in debt. You haven't got it that bad at all op.0
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This all sounds very clingy, emotional manipulation and bordering on controlling! I'm not saying you're like that but if a friend told be a S0 was behaving like this then I would tell them to thread carefully! You ain't got kids and you are not legally bound to each other and if your GF wants to spend xmas with her parents rats her choice and of course if it's a choice you don't like then you can make your own decisions. To put it into perspective it's not even two full days away from you!! It might be xmas and xmas is traditionally a family oriented period for most people.0
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Big Bag of Chips wrote: »
Have people even read the OP's posts??
I have read all of them and it just seems to be an unbending litany of how hurt he is and how taken advantage of he feels and there's nothing to suggest in anything he says that writing about it on here for pages and pages will resolve it.
His Christmas has been changed and if his is ruined he wants hers impacted, too.
OP most couples I know, even when married, don't tend to have a "couples" Christmas with just the two of them until kids come along, and even then it's sometimes not until the kids are old enough to take notice of Santa and therefore tend to want to wake up in their own houses, etc.
Even with kids many tend to bounce from in laws to in laws year on year until they settle into being their "own" family for Christmas.
There are going to be problems down the line if she wants to take future kids to experience some of the crowded, chaotic and - to her - happy experiences of a bustling family Christmas and you want all of you holed up alone for the duration.0 -
Evidentially the op is an emotional manipulator and has even managed to emotionally manipulate some of the posters here about wanting his fairytale childhood Christmas magic. The op is a grown man, it's about time he put his big boy pants on and grew up.0
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I have to echo what the majority are saying here OP. I don't see why your so hell bent on spending Christmas eve together. Hot chocolate and looking at lights in town is something you can do any day from November to January, Its no substitute for spending Christmas at home surrounded by family (if that's what your into and evidently she very much is.)
By asking her to make a flying 24 hour visit home your asking her to sacrifice something very important to her which she doesn't get to do any other time of year, namely relaxing for more than a day at her family home, surrounded by all the relatives she doesn't get to see much. I understand this isn't "your thing" but it obviously is hers.
She agreed to your Christmas plans reluctantly. Clearly becasue Christmas without her family doesn't appeal to her but she was willing to give it up for you. Now that the sick granny has put paid to that she probably see's this as her last opportunity to have Christmas the way she enjoys it. Its not like shes taking off to leave you on your own for weeks, its two days! Let her enjoy it!0 -
There are a couple alarm bells ringing:
- First off, I do agree with the OP that she took the piss changing the plan completely to what she wanted to do. I mean, not in terms of Christmas, but in terms of the relationship in general. I was with a girl like that and every decision that involved compromise became a battle. If I gave an inch, it became an opportunity for her to have things exactly her way and not mine at all. So maybe because I've been there myself I spotted that where others may not have. And yes, she should care more that she'll be leaving you alone at a miserable time for you. That's not fair either.
Truth is, forget about Christmas, a relationship shouldn't work that way. If you make a plan with someone and want to change it, common courtesy should dictate that you ask or at least go about it in a softly-softly kinda way. Instead of coming back passive-aggressively like, "Right well you changed the plan slightly so I've changed it completely!" be more like "Well if you're doing that, how about I do this because X, Y and Z makes more sense, and we'll make up for it then."
It sounds like a battle for control with decisions between two stubborn people who both want their own way and that's not healthy. There's no I in team and all. You both need to work on your communication issues, because passive-aggressiveness like this can be a silent killer for otherwise good relationships.
- OP I'm sorry but you do sound a bit needy too. A partnership is about two people bringing their lives together so that the sum of two parts is better for both. If you're unhappy that your Christmases aren't what you want them to be, then that's your problem, not hers. She's your fiancee. She doesn't exist to fill in the blanks in all the ways you feel your life is lacking. That's on you to fix yourself. It's way too much to ask of someone else and it's clingy and needy (though I get that none of us want to think of ourselves that way).
Her life shouldn't have to get worse for yours to get better. You're kinda expecting her to and that's what is creating this conflict. You're projecting your own unhappiness onto her and, trust me OP, you can ignore this all you want but you're not going to be able to run away from it eventually. It's something you need to accept and deal with ASAP or it'll catch up on you in the worst way.0 -
If you and your fiancee don't learn to deal with issues such as this one, they have the potential to undermine your marriage. It's not good that neither of you get on with each other's families either. My guess is that there is a pair of ye in this but I believe you are the one who's being more unreasonable here.
I also wonder have you been watching too many Hollywood romcoms regarding your plan to drink hot chocolate and look at the Christmas lights in town on Christmas Eve. Admittedly I have never done this but I try to avoid going near any towns on Christmas Eve because it's a day that's a bit sh!t. The shops are busy and running out of stock, there are people trying to find last minute presents and everyone who works in retail is wrecked after working ungodly hours and can't wait for closing time. I couldn't think of anywhere less romantic to be. Why can't you go see the lights in the weeks coming up to Christmas or even afterwards when things are a bit quieter?
Down the line, how are you going to manage if you have kids? If you don't get on with each other's families, how do you propose dealing with grandparents who want to see their grandkids. Or all those relatives on your fiancee's family who will probably be mad about the children and will want to incorporate them into the extended family? Or on a less hypothetical level, how will you manage Christmas once you're married? She's not going to want to see less of her family just because you're not into that sort of thing. So what will you do?0 -
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I have to echo what a small number of posters have said. From the sounds of things, the OP just wants a bit of support, hence the wish for just a few extra hours together on Christmas Eve. I think some are being unduly harsh and not considering it from his perspective.
If you've never watched a loved one (and it sounds like the OP is very fond of his grandmother) deteriorate from Alzheimer's or dementia, it's guy wrenching to watch. Add in to that the general misery that is the OP's house at Christmas and I could completely understand why he wants just a few nice hours together with the woman he loves and trusts enough to want to be together forever before he has to face what's going to be a prolonged and depressing couple of days alone.
OP, I'm one of the few here who doesn't think you're being particularly selfish. If my long-time partner, knowing I was facing a few tough days, so unthinkingly blew me off because she'll enjoy herself more at her house, I'd be majorly pi$sed off at the lack of empathy. Have you told her why those few others together are important to you? Maybe she just doesn't realise the impact it would have for you.
As others have pointed out, if this is typical of the way communication between you two goes, it's something that ye should probably work on before marriage. And if that kind of support and regard for your feelings is typical, that's something to think hard about.0 -
I have to echo what a small number of posters have said. From the sounds of things, the OP just wants a bit of support, hence the wish for just a few extra hours together on Christmas Eve. I think some are being unduly harsh and not considering it from his perspective.
If you've never watched a loved one (and it sounds like the OP is very fond of his grandmother) deteriorate from Alzheimer's or dementia, it's gut wrenching to watch. Add in to that the general misery that is the OP's house at Christmas and I could completely understand why he wants just a few nice hours together with the woman he loves and trusts enough to want to be together forever before he has to face what's going to be a prolonged and depressing couple of days alone.
OP, I'm one of the few here who doesn't think you're being particularly selfish. If my long-time partner, knowing I was facing a few tough days, so unthinkingly blew me off, when I just wanted a few hours together on Christmas Eve, because she'd enjoy herself more at her house, I'd be majorly pi$sed off at the lack of empathy. Have you told her why those few hours together are important to you? Maybe she just doesn't realise the impact it would have for you.
As others have pointed out, if this is typical of the way communication between you two goes, it's something that ye should probably work on before marriage. And if that kind of support and regard for your feelings is typical, that's something to think hard about.0 -
If you've never watched a loved one (and it sounds like the OP is very fond of his grandmother) deteriorate from Alzheimer's or dementia, it's gut wrenching to watch. Add in to that the general misery that is the OP's house at Christmas and I could completely understand why he wants just a few nice hours together with the woman he loves and trusts enough to want to be together forever before he has to face what's going to be a prolonged and depressing couple of days alone. /
This x100. I know the OP is angry and isn't coming across very well in his posts, but he is hurt, and I can understand why. Having family members who are very ill is awful, and a bit of empathy from those who are closest to you goes a long way.0 -
Very early for a suit fitting if the wedding is next November. Hope you don't eat too much while you are on hols :-)
I think you need to cut the cord a bit, you sound a bit needy and the hot choc and looking at the lights sound like the daydreams of a teenager. Christmas Eve is horrible in a lot of cities, people just want to go home. It sounds like your OH is one of those people. Let her enjoy it, she will be all yours for a week after Christmas when you go on holidays.0 -
Op, I get that you're disappointed and it feels like you're not a priority but you're coming across as very petulant. You don't have to be barring the door to be controlling. It sounds to me like you are trying to control your fiancée through accusations of her being sly/taking the piss so that if you make her feel bad enough she will do what you want. As someone else said, do you really want her to do it under duress?
Of course you'd love to stick to your original plan but that isn't happening now for whatever reason. You've loads of things coming up together - holidays, wedding, honeymoon. You've a whole life together. It's about more than Christmas.
Your disappointment is understandable, but the fact that your attitude hasn't softened at all and that you feel she's trying to get one over on you is really worrying tbh. Living with that kind of thing can really wear someone down.
And calling her family "weirdly close" - why would you do that just because they are closer than yours? Everyone's family is different. That's your future wife- be NICE!!! Are you threatened by things that take her attention away from you?0 -
OP, if this is about spending an extra few hours at home, swapping presents spending some "Christmas time" together then stick to that as the reason for wanting her to stay. If this is about going into Dublin City Centre on Christmas Eve for a leisurely, romantic stroll around - forget it.
Towns all over Ireland are mental on Christmas Eve. Mental. Dublin is the worst of them all. Packed, busy, crowded, people rushing around, annoyed, just wanting to get around the person in front of them and get the last few panic buys and get home. Christmas Eve would be my least favourite day out of all the year to be in town... And it's a Saturday this year... Mental! To be honest, any day between maybe the 10th and 24th of December are bad days to be planning romantic walk arounds! If you don't like crowds, avoid town as much as you possibly can in the lead up to Christmas.
For her getting in to town for a stroll, and then getting to where ever her bus home is going from could take hours. Does she go into town with her bag for going home? Carry it around with her and then get the bus? Or does she go in, without the bag, and then have to go home to go back out to get her bus? A few hours at home is practical. A "nice stroll" around town is not going to happen and will leave you both stressed and rushed.
I get that you are disappointed but the extra information about your holiday adds a different slant to things. This is only another Christmas. It's the last one before you get married. Your last one as "single" people. This Christmas shouldn't really be all that different to the other Christmases, but next year things are going to have to change. You will either have to get used to the idea of going to her family for dinner, or you are going to have to absolutely convince her that Christmas Day alone with just you two is going to be lovely... And make it lovely.
You need to get better at listening to each other and communicating with each other. Both of you. You have a whole life of decisions ahead of you. Christmas is probably the least important decision of all!0 -
Too many posts to quote here but i just want to get out there again i'm not controlling or manipulating or emotionally blackmailing anyone , i haven't even told her to stay I've literally told her to do whatever she wants , either what we agreed or what she has since changed and agreed to do with her family instead. All i was saying was it was a bit hurtful that she ditched our plans for Christmas eve more to keep her ma and sister happy then anything without even talking to me about it.
I get allot of you don't seem to think Christmas is for couples or its more for families or whatever , but for me anyway the person i most look forward to giving presents to is my fiance. Were both really into Christmas and this year we really don't have much time at all to celebrate it with each other , between work , weekend commitments and going away and yes i was a bit disappointed and if i'm honest a bit angry with her that she was prepared to give up what little time we had to do some Christmasy stuff together so readily. That stuff i mentioned the waking up doing presents going for break fast , heading into to town , CoCo Bo the lot isn't some idyllic fantasy i had conjured up in my own head it's what we had discussed and planned on doing before she went to Kildare Saturday and came back telling me she was now going down first thing Christmas eve.
I'm not clingy we spend plenty of time apart like i said both travel with work , have separate groups of mates , i go on weekends with the lads have season tickets to Lenister, Bohs and Ireland (football and Rugby , don't miss championship games in Croker either all with the lads , she has her friends she goes and meets for coffee dinner or whatever.We also have friends from college we socialize with together.
I'm not trying to ruin her Christmas because mine wont be what i want at home, i'm fully aware going home was my decision and not one i regret given the circumstance with my nana, there was never any expectation on her to come with me either. All i'm annoyed about is that she change our plans at the drop of hat , i wouldn't really expect having to spend a few nice hours with a partner or fience on christmas eve would ruin anyone's christmas.
were getting suits fitted this early because we are having them taylor made and one of my groomsmen in in Australia , he's home for christmas so will be going to get fitted etc while he's here because he wont be back again and for good untill next Octobre0 -
Sounds like you still have lots of great plans OP - going away to a match and the Christmas markets together then on holidays together just after New Year. I'd focus on enjoying those rather than ruining it by being angry over a few hours. It's a lot more than some people get.0
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Sounds like you still have lots of great plans OP - going away to a match and the Christmas markets together then on holidays together just after New Year. I'd focus on enjoying those rather than ruining it by being angry over a few hours. It's a lot more than some people get.
We do , don't get me wrong here at all shes a great girl , love her to bits and we do allot of really nice trips and things together , the dropping our plans like that was kinda out of character for her, and i suspect it had more then a little to do with her being in Kildare on Saturday.
I'm not gonna let it ruin anything at all, christma's included0 -
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Walter H Price wrote: »We do , don't get me wrong here at all shes a great girl , love her to bits and we do allot of really nice trips and things together , the dropping our plans like that was kinda out of character for her, and i suspect it had more then a little to do with her being in Kildare on Saturday.
I'm not gonna let it ruin anything at all, christma's included
Then you need to try to let it go and move on. Focus on the great plans that you do have and enjoy them! You've got a lot of plans together and don't let this cast a cloud over those for you or for her0
This discussion has been closed.
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