Dairy chit chat II

blackdog1

The part time boy wrote:

Dairy farmers that keep cattle in case of bad year or for cash low in low milk months.

The part time boy wrote:

Would they be not better off with better cash flow management and have a reserve fund for the bad year.

Depends I went out of raising bullocks as I made more profit from milk if the price was above 26c . I made money from them so neither was propping up another.

visatorro

Marrying a high earner would be more appealing than keeping cattle.

I'm neither married to a high earner or keeping cattle!

The part time boy

Mixed farming and not all eggs in one basket makes lot of sense on a simple level .

The problem is the difference in margin between beef and diary it does not seem to make much sense to sell cows to get Into cattle .

If you own land that not in milking block then it make sense to have a beef enterprise . But if you are taking land or have beef on home block it make less sense .

A lot of dairy farmers that have beef enterprise like the taugh of been mixed and also like the big sales cheque they get . I don't think a lot of them don't do the figures to see what they actally making vs sale of the calf.

But as long as there happy working away sure what harm

GrasstoMilk

Broke 3.8 protein today. Never done that in June before. Usually it's August. Cows yielding well at 26 l

Dwag

kowtow wrote: »

A lot would depend on the farm in question.

It's an obvious hedging technique.. but not without costs. Those costs are (1) any additional capital (2) any additional labour / complexity (3) the loss of scale in the dairy enterprise...

If you had the facilities already (on an out-farm perhaps), had reached some sort of optimum sweet spot (1 robots worth of cows? 1 man's worth?) at a perfect stocking rate on the milking platform.... it makes a good deal of sense...

The downside is getting caught up to your neck in three different enterprises none of which you are able to really get on top of and all of which supply commodity markets. And the original article is wrong - or at least is simplifying to the point of stupidity - in saying that these markets don't travel together. They do, in the medium and longer term cycles. All agricultural produce is cheap today relative to it's value a couple of generations ago, and all agricultural inputs - most especially land - are very expensive indeed.

Having said all that I love the idea of the properly integrated mixed farm from a farming perspective, particularly if the customer is willing to pay to become a part of the story.

I pretty much fit into your three enterprise category Kowtow. Typically the train of thought here is dairy or you're wasting your time, it is a dairy thread in fairness.
Milk goes to make baby formula and cheese...not the industrial kind either. I'm paid 32.15cpl + vat for June. The milk doesn't go to commodity market and could be called consumer led production, but not showing on the bottom line to me.
I won't go into the other two enterprises because posters here wouldn't know nor care, but I will say that nothing is being produced for commodity market, excepting what doesn't make the grade. No real jackpot there either but it does mean that I'm not competing with what comes out of Black Sea ports etc.

However, imo, the whole point is being missed...one enterprise *compliments* the other in a way that none of you number crunchers can put a value on.

Maybe a massive cut in nitrates would make people see what really matters...the soil that I till. Put a value on that.
In another thread someone commented on fym and quickly concluded that 18-6-12 would be better value...?

kowtow

Dwag wrote: »

I pretty much fit into your three enterprise category Kowtow. Typically the train of thought here is that dairy or you're wasting your time, it is a dairy thread in fairness.
Milk goes to make baby formula and cheese...not the industrial kind either. I'm paid 32.15cpl + vat for June. The milk doesn't go to commodity market and could be called consumer led production, but not showing on the bottom line to me.
I won't go into the other two enterprises because posters here wouldn't know nor care, but I will say that nothing is being produced for commodity market, excepting what doesn't make the grade. No real jackpot there either but it does mean that I'm not competing with what comes out of Black Sea ports etc.

In your case you'd also have passed the scale issue, IMO - so 3 enterprises wouldn't mean that you needed to reduce dairy below a size which optimal in some way (whether optimal is the perfect number for one man, or one robot, or even four sides of an existing and serviceable parlour...)

In fact the larger the overall enterprise gets the more sense this sort of diversification makes, because the amount of capital at risk in a single concentrated enterprise becomes an issue.

Tillage & Beef of course both qualify as vertical integrations rather than just diversification for a dairy farm- one replacing inputs and the other absorbing outputs... difficult to say the same of sheep but didn't they always say you could add a ewe per acre without the cows noticing?

An alternative hedge from a financial perspective (and your post hints at that) is to have a limited volume of premium product produced from the farm, and sell the surplus into commodity markets. The premium product(s) deliver profits while the surplus protects the bottom line by diluting the fixed costs.

Dwag

kowtow wrote: »

In your case you'd also have passed the scale issue, IMO - so 3 enterprises wouldn't mean that you needed to reduce dairy below a size which optimal in some way (whether optimal is the perfect number for one man, or one robot, or even four sides of an existing and serviceable parlour...)

In fact the larger the overall enterprise gets the more sense this sort of diversification makes, because the amount of capital at risk in a single concentrated enterprise becomes an issue.



An alternative hedge from a financial perspective (and your post hints at that) is to have a limited volume of premium product produced from the farm, and sell the surplus into commodity markets. The premium product(s) deliver profits while the surplus protects the bottom line by diluting the fixed costs.

Diversification whatever the size of farm is important. It's a relatively new idea to concentrate on one enterprise. Spreading risk was always important whatever business you're in...it's easy to get drawn into a false sense of security when you're in a protected market. And dairy is still a protected market...

Diluting fixed costs is the story of my life but I wouldn't have it any other way I suppose.

My point is that we need to look to our soils and the sustainability of horsing out chemical ferts etc...a cow, a sow and an acre under plough...

The part time boy

Dwag wrote: »

I won't go into the other two enterprises because posters here wouldn't know nor care,

You be surprised . I say a lot would be Intrested and you never know some might understand

mf240

Dwag wrote: »

I pretty much fit into your three enterprise category Kowtow. Typically the train of thought here is dairy or you're wasting your time, it is a dairy thread in fairness.
Milk goes to make baby formula and cheese...not the industrial kind either. I'm paid 32.15cpl + vat for June. The milk doesn't go to commodity market and could be called consumer led production, but not showing on the bottom line to me.
I won't go into the other two enterprises because posters here wouldn't know nor care, but I will say that nothing is being produced for commodity market, excepting what doesn't make the grade. No real jackpot there either but it does mean that I'm not competing with what comes out of Black Sea ports etc.

However, imo, the whole point is being missed...one enterprise *compliments* the other in a way that none of you number crunchers can put a value on.

Maybe a massive cut in nitrates would make people see what really matters...the soil that I till. Put a value on that.
In another thread someone commented on fym and quickly concluded that 18-6-12 would be better value...?

Someone concluded that if sheds were built and straw carted to mayo simply to produce fym that 18/6/12 would also improve land .:D

alps

kowtow wrote: »

The premium product(s) deliver profits while the surplus protects the bottom line by diluting the fixed costs.

A point completly disregarded by the advisory....

whelan2

What were people charged for freeze branding?

Dwag

whelan2 wrote: »

What were people charged for freeze branding?

€1/digit.(numéral)

Dwag

The part time boy wrote: »

You be surprised .

I would...
Sunflowers, haricot beans, soya, hemp (seed and fibre), durum wheat etc etc.

Sh1t other than grass.

Be surprised how different the requirements are...and then there's poultry ...

Waffletraktor

Dwag wrote: »

I would...
Sunflowers, haricot beans, soya, hemp (seed and fibre), durum wheat etc etc.

Sh1t other than grass.

Be surprised how different the requirements are...and the there's poultry ...

A farm not a million miles away from here does pigs for a supermarket, the slurry (fatteners in houses) and some feed stock(rented ground) goes into an ad plant about 1mw-(equivalent of 1,000acres of feed stock) with owned land growing feed for the pigs and alot of straw for bedding which is heaped up and spread. 5 years in virtually 0 fert imported as scavenges it from feedstock, depending on longterm green energy agenda now though.

On farm, the background agenda is now working towards a Duchy estates brand type set-up with the right type of local farms to give a good mix, though years away still. Can't afford to produce with people who don't like to get paid as our competiton.

Dwag

Waffletraktor wrote: »

Can't afford to produce with people who don't like to get paid as our competiton.

Explain.

I think I can produce against people who don't like to be profitable...for a while, at least, or most...?

The part time boy

Dwag wrote: »

The part time boy wrote: »

You be surprised .

I would...
Sunflowers, haricot beans, soya, hemp (seed and fibre), durum wheat etc etc.

Sh1t other than grass.

Be surprised how different the requirements are...and then there's poultry ...

Ah you see that very interesting .

Am I right in thinking that your ex pat ?? I still new here so not sure

Dwag

The part time boy wrote: »

Ah you see that very interesting .

Am I right in thinking that your ex pat ?? I still new here so not sure

Consider myself to be very Irish but I'll be banned shortly for calling out a little mountainy boy.

The part time boy

Dwag wrote: »

The part time boy wrote: »

Ah you see that very interesting .

Am I right in thinking that your ex pat ?? I still new here so not sure

Consider myself to be very Irish but I'll be banned shortly for calling out a little mountainy boy.

I have 96% no idea what your talking about .

I meant Irish ex pat . Ie your Irish living and working in another county . But you probably knew that and above his my post 96%

Waffletraktor

Dwag wrote: »

Explain.

I think I can produce against people who don't like to be profitable...for a while, at least, or most...?

We can't as our status is at max cost atm, as we work to a brighter future. For instance, we have a field witout a defined boundary hedge to help shelter. So let a regular casual labour do some pre-eming last autumn. It was obviously a little too windy doing the headland pass as you can see where the pre-em has been blown in about 3ft in field all along the boundary in and out matching slight gusts which is now rank with BG.
So will give it 2 widths out from the hedge with the kuhn mulcher to be safe so about 1/2 acre of crop lost after all the ferting and chemical only to have had spring germinated bg fook the job up. It's frustrating and the cost will need to be carried vs someone else will say leave it but 1 seed returned is 1 too many atm.
Lack of opperator experience knowing to slow down(so boom can stay closer to ground) and go for a slightly courser spray pattern and a shyte deere sprayer that takes a lifetime to adjust the boom contour following the ground leaving you too scared to get to the desired 50cm region. Probably cost £450 of a fudge up for an extra 5 mins and some experience but we gave him the job to do not adequately advised obviously with equipment not fit for purpose imo.

pedigree 6

Dwag wrote: »

Consider myself to be very Irish but I'll be banned shortly for calling out a little mountainy boy.

Mcgillycuddy reeks or Blackstairs?

Dwag

pedigree 6 wrote: »

Mcgillycuddy reeks or Blackstairs?

Ah no.

pedigree 6

Dwag wrote: »

Ah no.
.......

I maybe possibly vaguely might have an idea who/what you're on about.

Life's too short for that sh1te.

Trying to be diplomatic here without being a mod.

Attack the post not the poster as they say here.:D

We can't all be king of the dungheap.:)

Dwag

pedigree 6 wrote: »

I maybe possibly vaguely might have an idea who/what you're on about.

Life's too short for that sh1te.

Trying to be diplomatic here without being a mod.

Attack the post not the poster as they say here.:D

We can't all be king of the dungheap.:)

....

Genghis Cant

Back on topic please lads. Thanks. GC

whelan2

Dwag wrote: »

€1/digit.(numéral)

€320 for 65 animals. 3digits. I was robbed

White Clover

whelan2 wrote: »

€320 for 65 animals. 3digits. I was robbed

Don't believe everything you read! I think that was a very reasonable price.

Mooooo

whelan2 wrote: »

€320 for 65 animals. 3digits. I was robbed

Do you often do it when the stock are at grass? Do they turn out ok?

whelan2

Mooooo wrote: »

Do you often do it when the stock are at grass? Do they turn out ok?

Did it in May last year and they turned out really well as the heifers being done are quiet and dont fidget as much in the crush as they are used to being milked etc .. I always thought they had to be done in the winter for some reason.

atlantic mist

Appears organic milk is not as good for environment as we thought, drive on with the fertiliser and antibiotics keep those animal numbers down

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-40186774

Buford T. Justice XIX

atlantic mist wrote: »

Appears organic milk is not as good for environment as we thought, drive on with the fertiliser and antibiotics keep those animal numbers down

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-40186774

Looking at some research a while back on methane reduction in cattle, the most effective additives to feed wouldn't be approved to organic standards so the organic impact could end up even worse.