Dairy chit chat II

farawaygrass

Wildsurfer wrote: »

Are you trying to figure out what the dairy farmer next door to ya is making??:D

Haha, not a all!! Ah no we were chatting at home and if we changed over. if the price of milk is 30c aprox at the moment, is that a base price with bonuses after? I'm shocked at the cost to produce a litre being in the mid twenties. At that a hundred cow herd would be lucky to make 40k in the year? Where is the 70k AVERAGE profit that teagasc are on about coming from?

yewtree

Mooooo wrote: »

Profit would have to be worked out on your own costs. 5000L would be easily achievable think the average in the country delivered is 5500? Could be wrong. Solids would want to be good with that yield tho.

Average delivered is 4900 for spring milk producers. The average kg milk solids is only 370kg/cow. A lot of lads have low solid % and low solids kg.

Mooooo

yewtree wrote: »

Average delivered is 4900 for spring milk producers. The average kg milk solids is only 370kg/cow. A lot of lads have low solid % and low solids kg.

Didn't think it was that low.

The part time boy

K.G. wrote: »

Just out of curiosty what is the smallest number of cows being milked in your area.fella near here has about 20 which i think is the smallest .i love to see people carrying on doing their own thing

Have a client milking 17 cows on a pipeline

Another fella told me his has a neighbour milking 9 cows . But he never joined bord bia so Kerry stopped collecting milk . He has put calves on the cows this year

Gawddawggonnit

Many thanks Freedominacup!

Results for soya and maize crimp came back today. Seems the soya and maize crimp are very high in oils...that could be the reason for the shyte solids.
Scc have also gone from 94k to 252k but that issue is solved. Hopefully.

This forum is truly a good resource, even though I mostly take the pi$$!!
Nobody could figure out the solids issues and Freedom nails it. Again many thanks.

Gawddawggonnit

.

alps

farawaygrass wrote: »

Haha, not a all!! Ah no we were chatting at home and if we changed over. if the price of milk is 30c aprox at the moment, is that a base price with bonuses after? I'm shocked at the cost to produce a litre being in the mid twenties. At that a hundred cow herd would be lucky to make 40k in the year? Where is the 70k AVERAGE profit that teagasc are on about coming from?

Careful with the wording of.what you read...The term used on the 70K was "income"..not profit....That in itself will cause a huge row on these threads...

On the costs of producing milk....If my wife and I are allowed Salaries equating to 15 Euros per got for every hour we work and we are paid a rent of 220 Euros per acre for our facility...The cost of milk production on our farm is 36c/l

Buford T. Justice XIX

alps wrote: »

Careful with the wording of.what you read...The term used on the 70K was "income"..not profit....That in itself will cause a huge row on these threads...

On the costs of producing milk....If my wife and I are allowed Salaries equating to 15 Euros per got for every hour we work and we are paid a rent of 220 Euros per acre for our facility...The cost of milk production on our farm is 36c/l

You may need to start looking at a lower cost wife:P

The part time boy

It's good to see you add in a wage to COP as you need to get paid .

However I don't get why people want to add in land rent . It's not a actally cost
Ie money does leave the farm back account to pay you rent .

Or maybe you are set up as a bussincess and it does

Gawddawggonnit

alps wrote: »

Careful with the wording of.what you read...The term used on the 70K was "income"..not profit....That in itself will cause a huge row on these threads...

On the costs of producing milk....If my wife and I are allowed Salaries equating to 15 Euros per got for every hour we work and we are paid a rent of 220 Euros per acre for our facility...The cost of milk production on our farm is 36c/l

I thought it was €80k was the Teagasc boast...

The French claim that 35cpl is needed to properly invest (etc) for the future of the business.
The Germans claim that it should be closer to 40cpl...for things like putting roofs over cubicles etc.

kevthegaff

The part time boy wrote:

Another fella told me his has a neighbour milking 9 cows . But he never joined bord bia so Kerry stopped collecting milk . He has put calves on the cows this year

Some *****ss closing him down like that, probably the happiest herd in the county!

Water John

I hear Dairygold have written to suppliers telling them they will not be collected beyond the 1st Jan next unless they are signed up to Bord Bia QA Scheme.
Have other processors implemented that?

whelan2

Water John wrote: »

I hear Dairygold have written to suppliers telling them they will not be collected beyond the 1st Jan next unless they are signed up to Bord Bia QA Scheme.
Have other processors implemented that?

Why wouldnt you be bord bia approved at this stage,I have had 2 bord bia dairy audits here at this stage, should we not all be singing off the same hymn sheet?

Buford T. Justice XIX

Water John wrote: »

I hear Dairygold have written to suppliers telling them they will not be collected beyond the 1st Jan next unless they are signed up to Bord Bia QA Scheme.
Have other processors implemented that?

All Kerry suppliers are compliant, bar a few holdouts who seem to be selling up at the end of the year.

Kerry also stopped collecting smaller co-ops supplies as they weren't all going to be QA and Kerry also needed the processing capacity for its own supplies.

Water John

Think DG have around 300 not signed up yet.

satstheway

The bord bia thing is just more red tape.
I have done 2 here now and some neighbours just starting.
What's the benefit if were all in it?
I know of the argument that irish milk will be at a premium but that only lasts until the competition have their own quality assurance and then it all gets tighter again.
If your sending high quality milk and keep detailed records why all the tape.

Mooooo

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

I thought it was €80k was the Teagasc boast...

The French claim that 35cpl is needed to properly invest (etc) for the future of the business.
The Germans claim that it should be closer to 40cpl...for things like putting roofs over cubicles etc.

Do you agree with the French and Germans?

mf240

You need to be always talking up the costs while quietly trying to keep them as low as you can.

mf240

Bord bia is a load of dung but it's not that hard to get trough it. Even the lads at it know it's a load of shyte but it's a handy job .

Brown Podzol

The part time boy wrote: »

It's good to see you add in a wage to COP as you need to get paid .

However I don't get why people want to add in land rent . It's not a actally cost
Ie money does leave the farm back account to pay you rent .

Or maybe you are set up as a bussincess and it does

Think of it like this. If you don't add a charge charge for your land then Tesco will get the use of your land for free.

Timmaay

The part time boy wrote: »

It's good to see you add in a wage to COP as you need to get paid .

However I don't get why people want to add in land rent . It's not a actally cost
Ie money does leave the farm back account to pay you rent .

Or maybe you are set up as a bussincess and it does

In my case I've an engineering masters, and would have plenty of options back at that if I decided I had enough of farming, in this scenario the rental potential makes a huge huge difference, suddenly I'm comparing an option of say sitting here and earning myself a farm income of say 50k/yr, against say a 50k engineering salary, plus call it a 20k tax free long term lease "bonus" payment, the harsh reality is from an economic point of view I'm wasting my time being a farmer ha, however I'm happy with my decisions, there is alot more to life than just money.

The other area not respecting the "potential land rent" is with expansion, let's say you get in a bidding war with your neighbour for 20ac beside you, and because your "lowly borrowed" with no rental charge on your current block of land you decide phuckit let's go to 250k for the 20ac (12.5k instead of say 10k), you can only do this because you are spreading the debt across your whole farm, you instead should consider the extra 20ac completely as a separate holding, will it still make economic sense?

kowtow

The part time boy wrote: »

It's good to see you add in a wage to COP as you need to get paid .

However I don't get why people want to add in land rent . It's not a actally cost
Ie money does leave the farm back account to pay you rent .

Or maybe you are set up as a bussincess and it does

Others above have explained this in a lot less words than I would have used and more persuasively!

The only thing I would add is that profit models - which is inevitably when this comes up, are only models. Think of them as different ways of looking at the same business to try to understand it better. If you are trying to optimise your system, or you want to see the true effect of expansion - then you ought to allow some land charge in your model. In my opinion, a standardised land charge and some sort of average wage are the best ways to approach this rather than actual drawings from the farm.

Otherwise if I inherited a thousand acres or happen to have a taste for hookers and cocaine, or a daughter with a dressage habit, my land costs are going to flatter my poor grazing habits and my wage costs are going to look ridiculous.

You don't need to actually pay the land charge - unless of course it is a real rent or a mortgage in which case you probably should.

For the same reason notional land charges don't appear in cash forecasts and wages can sometimes be reduced to an absolute minimum in them.

alps

To avoid any confusion on land charges, in the model that we do, you use either what your neighbour gets for renting, or more accurately the average of what you are paying for renting. That's the accurate land charge for your farm.

Again Kowtow is correct, it's got nothing to do with your drawings, or needs, it's just what you would expect to earn if you took your labour to another institution..

Mooooo

.

whelan2

First Autumn calver calved this morning. Not due until September 1st. Small fr heifer calf

Mooooo

whelan2 wrote: »

First Autumn calver calved this morning. Not due until September 1st. Small fr heifer calf

When is the last one due?

whelan2

Mooooo wrote: »

When is the last one due?

Middle October. Try to calve them all outside

jaymla627

Timmaay wrote: »

In my case I've an engineering masters, and would have plenty of options back at that if I decided I had enough of farming, in this scenario the rental potential makes a huge huge difference, suddenly I'm comparing an option of say sitting here and earning myself a farm income of say 50k/yr, against say a 50k engineering salary, plus call it a 20k tax free long term lease "bonus" payment, the harsh reality is from an economic point of view I'm wasting my time being a farmer ha, however I'm happy with my decisions, there is alot more to life than just money.

The other area not respecting the "potential land rent" is with expansion, let's say you get in a bidding war with your neighbour for 20ac beside you, and because your "lowly borrowed" with no rental charge on your current block of land you decide phuckit let's go to 250k for the 20ac (12.5k instead of say 10k), you can only do this because you are spreading the debt across your whole farm, you instead should consider the extra 20ac completely as a separate holding, will it still make economic sense?

I'd rather let the neighbour have it and just put more meal into the cows if you want to go up in numbers, you'll easily buy in a good 3 way mix to balance grass for sub 200 a ton, let say on the 20 acres you utilize 112 ton of dm, it will cost just shy of 21000 to match this output with imported feed, when your talking of it costing 40 plus grand a year to meet repayments/development costs/and running costs(fert/spray etc) on the bought in block it just further hammers home if a real economic cost is attributed to land ownership it alters the figures of grazed grass been a cheap feed immensely

Sam Kade

satstheway wrote: »

The bord bia thing is just more red tape.
I have done 2 here now and some neighbours just starting.
What's the benefit if were all in it?
I know of the argument that irish milk will be at a premium but that only lasts until the competition have their own quality assurance and then it all gets tighter again.
If your sending high quality milk and keep detailed records why all the tape.

I've had 2 as well and at the first inspection I was told that I didn't need a sink in the dairy or brushes on the doors, the second inspection I was told I did. When the dairygold milk advisor was doing the close out she said one farmer had the sink on his last day for close out but didn't have it installed so he put it up on a barrel for the advisor to take a photo of it, talk about lazy. No doubt the sink is probably thrown outside the dairy door until the next inspection.

George Sunsnow

Land rental value of your owned land is an opportunity cost

Google opportunity cost
It's not something you can put in your hand unless you take up the opportunity
In which case you're not farming anymore ergo you wouldn't be a farmer

Other opportunity costs affecting me is not having done Rocket science at college or medicine
I could have earned a lot more money than on the farm

None of these things are a cost against my production because I wouldn't be producing if I did them

Ergo owned land price/potential rental is not a CoP

So let's put that nonsense to bed

What you pay yourself or what you should be paying yourself is a CoP on the other hand,a real tangible cost not imagination