Is it OK to leave a big dog outdoors in this weather?

DBB

[Deleted User] wrote: »

City folk problems :rolleyes:

Huh?

smartz

Deleted User wrote: »

City folk problems :rolleyes:

Agreed. Big Country-townie divide visible here.

Dyr

DBB wrote: »

Huh?

I think he's implying that animal cruelty is fine when its part of culchie culture.

Ye know chucking sacks of pups in rivers etc, poisoning birds of prey etc, all part of a proud heritage

Sleeper12

Bambi wrote:

I think he's implying that animal cruelty is fine when its part of culchie culture.

Bambi wrote:

Ye know chucking sacks of pups in rivers etc, poisoning birds of prey etc, all part of a proud heritage

I thought they were talking about working dogs down the country. They have company and social interaction all day long.

John_Rambo

Deleted User wrote: »

City folk problems :rolleyes:

Not sure where you're headed with that comment. Do you mean dogs locked out all day are a problem for city folks because they hear the dogs barking or whining and aren't heard in rural areas?

I lived in the North inner city of Dublin for years and the dog of choice was usually a small terrier. Glen of Imaals, Staffys, Wheatons, Kerry Blues and English bull terriers and all crosses of these were very popular with the odd Boxer, Bull Mastiff etc... They were usually indoor dogs in very small houses, but it worked well, the mam was home all day with the dog and walked the kids to and from school with the dog, walked to the shops, the chemist, the post office etc... (One of the only places in Ireland where people actually walk to the shops and schools). A lot of the dads worked shift and would head out for walks with the dog or dogs after or before work. I had a few professional neighbours that worked from home with big dogs too, all indoor dogs, lots of rescues particularly lurchers and greyhounds.

Very happy, balanced, well behaved dogs. No city folk problems.

DBB

smartz wrote: »

Agreed. Big Country-townie divide visible here.

There is?
How so?

Vizzy

FrostyJack wrote: »

How much of the day do you expect the average person spends in their garden? Unless you work in the garden I would guess it would be 1 hour max so the dog would be 23 hours on its own. How do dogs occupy themselves without humans? Crossword puzzles, movies? One of my dogs won't even eat a bone unless someone is there she just sleeps. I have the camera on them when we are out so I know what they do. I would imagine most dogs are like this unless they are barking and digging holes.

And what do they do to occupy themselves ?
Crossword puzzles ? Movies ?

Do you hold the view that a hunting dog or a sheepdog should be kept in the house ?

Stoner

John_Rambo wrote:

You'll get a better behaved, better socialised, happier and friendlier dog if it's kept with the family.

I agree when we are in and up the two boys are in the house with us .

Last job at night before I hit the sack is to feed the dogs and let them out to their kennels.

Fist thing in the morning we let them in again .

Latatian

Vizzy wrote: »

And what do they do to occupy themselves ?
Crossword puzzles ? Movies ?

Do you hold the view that a hunting dog or a sheepdog should be kept in the house ?

What answer are you looking for with that question?

Hunting dogs and sheepdogs, by definition have work to do which involves interaction with humans. Never knew a sheepdog with a half-competent owner that was tied up outside alone while the owner sat inside, for 23 hours every day of its life. The dog goes out on chores and gets tied up once it's already worked for its supper. It gets training to do its job properly and then gets the physical and mental stimulation of doing that.

The pet dog has no work and the owner has no need to spend time with it training it and keeping it in working condition. Look at the collies that go nuts when raised with an owner who doesn't give them enough to do. Dogs aren't supposed to sit in a garden all day. They are bred to interact with humans and hopefully be of some use as well. I'm not sure that 'dog doing work and being kept outside' and 'dog with nothing to do sitting in a garden' are comparable states.

Part of the problem is that humans are inside too much. We evolved to walk long distances for transport, to get food etc, the dog evolved to be able to do that long-distance exercise beside us and do their share of the work. Instead we're inside getting fat and the dog's outside by itself.

Advbrd

We have a medium sized dog who is inside a lot during the day in the kitchen/living room/siting room but not on her own. When we are eating she is out. At night she is out in her kennel. At the moment she is in the utility room because she was groomed on Friday and the groomer went a bit mad and it is damned cold outside.

JustAThought

OP I would either knock or leave a note in your neighbours door saying that their dog is whining & seems distressed left alone in the garden all day. Does it get taken out and walked during the day? If not, it might be an idea to suggest that there are a few peoole who do dogwalking & it might help the dogs boredom/agitation if it was walked & tired out during the day. Poor yoke

As regards the DSPCA if the dog has food, shelter & water & isn't suffering obvious cruelty they won't come out, and calling the dogwarden will only check if it has a license; so your best bet is the owners. It sounds like they (now) have to go to work and leave it ( perhaps simething changed) or ( more likely) the dog is no longer the novelty and is discarded into the garden all day ( and night???) Poor puppy. They need human /dog contact and a purpose.

AndrewJRenko

OP here - the dog in question is in the garden, staring in the window and pawing occasionally on the grass. The family have gone to school/work without any interaction, and I'm pretty sure without any feeding/watering. It's breaking my heart now.

Chuchote

Dogs are intensely social animals. It sounds as if these people loved it when they had a cute puppy, failed to integrate their dog into their household and now regard it as some kind of machine without feelings or needs apart from food, water and shelter - though this may be too harsh, since you're only seeing it from outside.
Maybe knock on their door and offer to take the dog for a walk every day, explain that it seems lonely and bored outside? They might even sometimes like to walk with you.
If you succeed in training the dog a bit - simple things like "fetch" and "find" - they might find it more interesting and gradually grow attached to their pet?
I might mention that when my dog was young I used to leave her in the garden when I was out at work; she had a good kennel, food and water. My neighbours called in and said she was crying, and so I started leaving her in the house when I was out. She was perfectly happy there, and stopped crying - she obviously felt more secure inside. Dogs' mileage varies.

JustAThought

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

OP here - the dog in question is in the garden, staring in the window and pawing occasionally on the grass. The family have gone to school/work without any interaction, and I'm pretty sure without any feeding/watering. It's breaking my heart now.

How awful. Knock on their door when they get in & fed tonight. Exaggerate the dogs misery a bit & emphasise that it is because it is bored/isolated. If they are setting a pattern for excluding & ignoring the dogs needs for the rest of its life then it would be better rehomed

I do not understand how people can get a pet and discard it without company or walks into a (small) semi-d back garden for the rest of its life (8-14 years) and expect neighbours to put up with its misery or noise . The dog can't speak english & the neighbours maybe don't realise or don't care - it shouldn't be let continue for the rest of the dogs life and you cannot be expected to take on their responsibilities or sit passively by and hear it suffering.

Plenty of dogminders & (sime) dog day-cares out there - medieval cruelty is not good enough. It's the Same for children in romanian orphanages living their lives fed & in a bed, banging their heads against cots for lack of love and stimulation. They should understand that analogy -and the disgrace of it.

Chuchote

Check whether the dog has water, and if it doesn't, maybe lower a plastic bucket full of water over the wall for it. You can pull it back up and out before the neighbours get back.

pilly

Kaiden Orange Cowboy wrote: »

Dogs are outdoor anaimals, they aren't humans and certainly aren't babies. Once he has shelter he will be fine, having dogs living in the house is a new thing that's emerged (in cities) over in the last 20 years or so.

Growing up in the country side where people deal with all sorts of animals everyday having a dog or cat inside the back door of the house was and for most still is unheard off.

Even kittens or puppies wouldn't be let in the house at home never mind grown dogs and they always lived happy and long lives.

Edit: just to add I wouldn't move a dog that's been used to inside outside but a dog should never be gotten used to inside in the first place.

Whilst I immediately thought the same thing as I know many farm dogs very happy living outside when I think about if further it's different being outside on a farm to outside in a small back garden in suburbia if you know what I mean, the boredom for the dog must be huge. Also, farm dogs do tend to have company in form of another dog, cat or other animals. Dogs are sociable creatures and like any form of company.

Most days I come home the dog and cat are in the same room even though they ignore each other totally.

Jayop

Bambi wrote: »

I think he's implying that animal cruelty is fine when its part of culchie culture.

Ye know chucking sacks of pups in rivers etc, poisoning birds of prey etc, all part of a proud heritage

It's no wonder this forum features so highly in the no go areas thread with stuff like this. Shocking assumption to make and its the second time you've done it in this thread. Don't agree one hundred percent with me you must be an advocate for drowning puppies. Horrible posts.

Dyr

Jayop wrote: »

It's no wonder this forum features so highly in the no go areas thread with stuff like this. Shocking assumption to make and its the second time you've done it in this thread. Don't agree one hundred percent with me you must be an advocate for drowning puppies. Horrible posts.

Country folk problems.

Big country/townie divide.

Jayop

Bambi wrote: »

Country folk problems.

Big country/townie divide.

And what, do you believe that all country people think it's OK to drown puppies because that's the assertion you've made several times based on nothing but your imagination.

It seems that you don't like people to disagree with you and when they do you attack with crap like that. Guess it got you a few likes so good for you.

pilly

Jayop wrote: »

It's no wonder this forum features so highly in the no go areas thread with stuff like this. Shocking assumption to make and its the second time you've done it in this thread. Don't agree one hundred percent with me you must be an advocate for drowning puppies. Horrible posts.

Totally agree, assumptions made by people who haven't been raised around working animals.

Dyr

Jayop wrote: »

And what, do you believe that all country people think it's OK to drown puppies because that's the assertion you've made several times based on nothing but your imagination.

It seems that you don't like people to disagree with you and when they do you attack with crap like that. Guess it got you a few likes so good for you.

If someone wants to introduce the old chestnut that people who don't live down the sticks are molly coddlying their animals I'm just going to point out that the other side of that coin. Don't find many puppy farms in the city do ye lads?

Jayop

Bambi wrote: »

If someone wants to introduce the old chestnut that people who don't live down the sticks are molly coddlying their animals I'm just going to point out that the other side of that coin. Don't find many puppy farms in the city do ye lads?

Another post disagreeing with you and this time it's puppy farming we're all supporting. Brilliant, you're on a roll here. Why not go dog fighting with your next one and finish off with Fox hunting. Sure we all love that down the sticks.

Like I said it's no wonder this forum has such a bad reputation on boards with the likes of you.

The Backwards Man

You'll never hear a dog crying or whining on the coldest iciest day of the year if you are outside along with it, but you will if it's locked in a warm house with a blazing fire all on its lonesome.

DBB

Okay folks,
Let's get this thread back on track. Discussion relating to the op from this point on please.
That is to say, to discuss the alleged urban?rural divide, start a new thread.
Do not reply to this post on thread.
Thanks.
DBB

FrostyJack

Vizzy wrote: »

And what do they do to occupy themselves ?
Crossword puzzles ? Movies ?

Do you hold the view that a hunting dog or a sheepdog should be kept in the house ?

They generally don't occupy themselves. A cheese filled kong is the best I can do for them. The most I ever leave them is about 3 hours and the average a week is 1 hour. If I am going shopping they stay in back of jeep. When I am in work they are in daycare. I live in an apartment so I don't have the luxury of dumping them out the back but I would generally keep to the timelines above as I have for over a year.

Working dogs (not working breeds) should be kept with family too. If they have adequate shelter etc and are working with the owner during the day then I would have no problem with them staying outside. The preference would be inside though.

DBB

The Backwards Man wrote: »

You'll never hear a dog crying or whining on the coldest iciest day of the year if you are outside along with it, but you will if it's locked in a warm house with a blazing fire all on its lonesome.

You'll often hear a dog locked outside with a warm kennel all on its lonesome crying or whining.
Leaving a dog alone in solitude for long periods of time will tend to cause distress to the dog.
It makes no difference whether the dog is inside or outside. Temperature bears no relation to the onset of distress caused by isolation.

borderlinemeath

One of my dogs was given to me because he was becoming "behaviourally challenging" from being isolated in the garden. And by that his owners were annoyed that he had begun to dig and chew, typical dog behaviours exhibiting frustration at being isolated away from his family. Nor did they understand why he didn't run around the garden, after all, they lived in the country and had an acre of garden but he used to stare pitifully in the back door. He did get walked/run every day but one hour out of 24 isn't enough for a sociable companion animal, a fact that tends to be lost on plenty of people who think that dogs belong outside, on their own.

These people tend to come from all walks of life, city, country etc, but their ideology on dog behaviour tends to stem from what they grew up with, or what their parents did before them, and their parents before that. Somehow, through the generations, it became the norm to leave the pet languishing outside with little interaction. Go back 30 years and it was the norm to have at least one parent in the home, in and out of the garden, hanging up washing, gardening, children playing etc, not so now where both parents have to work and children are in childcare most of the day - but the consequence for the pet dog have meant that their situation hasn't evolved like their owners have.

I just wish a lot of people who do this wouldn't hark back to "what was the done thing at home". Just because your parents did it doesn't make it right. Huge advances have been made in analysing dog behaviours, and in parallel to that, dogs have become a commodity, bred in isolation and sold on a whim on the internet, which in turn makes their behavioural problems that much more acute, but that's for another thread.

unreg999

DBB wrote:

Quite the contradiction that you keep your dogs inside! Why do you keep them in when you feel they should be outdoors? As you feel dogs should be kept outside, could you just address for me the bigger problem of social isolation and consequent behavioural problems for pet dogs kept alone outside, and remember I'm staying on topic here and referring to a dog that is alone for long periods in a back garden? Can you also address why pet dogs (and indeed working hounds as alluded to in my first post) "should" be outside when they have been very deliberately kept inside as human companions for thousands of years? They're animals alright, as are we, but being an animal is not a determinant of having to live outside. Pet dogs are not livestock... They are domesticated companion animals. How can a dog alone in a garden be a companion to anyone... Remembering there's mountains of evidence that they both want and need to be with their humans in order to thrive emotionally. Like I said above, people from other countries are aghast at the Irish attitude that dogs belong outside. It's a very strange view that's not based on any evidence.

There are also plenty of prople from other countries who are aghast that cats should ever be let leave the house... and go to the extreme of removing their claws to stop them from damaging furniture (which is an atrociously torturous practice)
Also, removing dog's voice boxes is common enough in certain places to stop barking...
In fact, dogs are seen as meat animals in certain other countries & kept in the worst conditions imaginable
Need I go on...??
Human practices are no indication of what should or should not be 'best practice', common sense should prevail & there are many humans living in worse conditions than some 'outdoor dogs'...
OP- sounds like your neighbour's dog is lonely rather than cold

Checkmate19

Dogs like humans need company. My dog has a big kennel but we bring him in during the day into the kitchen. Dogs get bored and needed company and walks. The kennel my dog sleeps in is very warm even on a cold night but we let him sleep in the kitchen during the winter months as i think he's just happier inside.

tk123

tk123 wrote: »

My two have no interest in running around the garden. When they need to go to the loo they'll ask to go out and run back in.

You can't let them out when you aren't there. We were looking after a dog for someone recently and as the dog is not used to being outside we couldn't leave her outside all day while at work. This meant she was holding her pee for up to 9 hours until someone got home to let her out.

If for some reason had this dog more long term we would be starting to acclimatise her to spending time outside, get a kennel etc so that she could be outside during the day when people are out of the house. It also eases pressure to get home straight after work as you know you don't have to get straight home to let the dog have a pee etc.