The alt right - Mod Warning in OP

Workcrush

It is your decision moderator whether to delete these opinions. They are opinions which one is free to disavow, deny even destroy evidence of.

You can tell when one's beliefs transform into religious articles of faith by openness to destroy arguments...and their owners.

RDM_83 again

Workcrush wrote: »

Left wing politics only truly became identity politics in the mid to late 20th century after a certain tribe advanced on it in the academic circles of mid century to repurpose it for its tribal needs.

I would argue the corruption of left wing politics from class and economics to race and tribe is the result of the advance of the high IQ middle easterners, the jews, into academia in the 1960s which sowed the seeds of the contemporary social justice revolution.

Taking your post seriously and ignoring any of the implied dodgyness, this statement doesn't make any sense!

Like there was bucket loads of prominent Jewish intellectuals before that period.
On the left wing thing Karl Marx and Leon Trotsky are possibly the most influential people on the left and they were both pre-60's.

johnnyskeleton

Workcrush wrote: »

It is your decision moderator whether to delete these opinions. They are opinions which one is free to disavow, deny even destroy evidence of.

You can tell when one's beliefs transform into religious articles of faith by openness to destroy arguments...and their owners.

Mod note:

This forum is not for conspiracy theories, philosophical discussion or gender issues and if you want to post here you need to substantiate your views rather than simply asserting things. As regards the specific post above, discussing moderation on thread is not permitted.

OnDraught

20Cent wrote: »

Nicholas Pell the author of the controversial IT article will be further silenced/censored by appearing on Claire Byrne live tonight. That and a few radio interviews poor fella can't get a word out.

What ever happened to this Pell lad? He's deleted his twitter and doesn't seem to have any articles up for months now? Any chance he got deported?

20Cent

Turns out Antifa were right.

Milo Yiannopoulos singing America the beautiful to a crowd of seig heiling white supremacists.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLNLPIRS62g

A cache of documents show close co operation between milo and some hardcore racists.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/josephbernstein/heres-how-breitbart-and-milo-smuggled-white-nationalism?utm_term=.ntKAW4pZX9#.khYr4jV9pq

James Brown

20Cent wrote: »

Turns out Antifa were right.

Milo Yiannopoulos singing America the beautiful to a crowd of seig heiling white supremacists.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLNLPIRS62g

A cache of documents show close co operation between milo and some hardcore racists.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/josephbernstein/heres-how-breitbart-and-milo-smuggled-white-nationalism?utm_term=.ntKAW4pZX9#.khYr4jV9pq

He's a side show trying to stir up some interest. Pretty sad figure.

Billy86

To be fair before he went about promoting pedophilia, he was the poster boy of the alt right, supposedly 'not a racist' or 'alt lite' as some failed to try to brand it, and most/all of what is in that article happened before he went an made a sideshow of himself. It's a pretty good insight into what the alt right are about.

20Cent

Snowflake, SJW, virtue signaling, all have creeped into mainstream discourse. One prominent journalist and campaigner in Ireland wrote for Breitbart and uses these terms. Interesting how the alt right language and methods have spread.

pitifulgod

Billy86 wrote: »

To be fair before he went about promoting pedophilia, he was the poster boy of the alt right, supposedly 'not a racist' or 'alt lite' as some failed to try to brand it, and most/all of what is in that article happened before he went an made a sideshow of himself. It's a pretty good insight into what the alt right are about.

I recall people saying "black boyfriend and Jewish, he's entirely guiltless of everything in relation to playing up to racists and Nazis".

Brian?

20Cent wrote: »

Snowflake, SJW, virtue signaling, all have creeped into mainstream discourse. One prominent journalist and campaigner in Ireland wrote for Breitbart and uses these terms. Interesting how the alt right language and methods have spread.

I’m still not entirely sure what “virtue signaling” is. I’ve been accused of it a few times. It seems to be a push back against altruism.

20Cent

Brian? wrote: »

I’m still not entirely sure what “virtue signaling” is. I’ve been accused of it a few times. It seems to be a push back against altruism.

Pretty much.
If someone expresses sympathy or morals it is dismissed as them just enhancing their standing amongst peers rather than being genuine.

Tony EH

TBH, while I dislike the term, there are a lot of people who claim to stand for something while having no dog in the game, or even a relevant interest (other than their own purely selfish ones). They're there just for show.

IMO, those people are detrimental to any cause and their faux support is more damaging than anything else.

oscarBravo

Tony EH wrote: »

TBH, while I dislike the term, there are a lot of people who claim to stand for something while having no dog in the game, or even a relevant interest (other than their own purely selfish ones). They're there just for show.

How do you know?

Tony EH

Well, I don't for sure in a general context.

But I've definitely met a few people who fit the bill.

B0jangles

20Cent wrote: »

Pretty much.
If someone expresses sympathy or morals it is dismissed as them just enhancing their standing amongst peers rather than being genuine.

That has been my impression too; it frequently seems to come from people who have apparently never experienced empathy for a stranger, so to them, anyone who does feel such empathy has to be faking it.

Billy86

Richard "totally not a racist" Spencer who has been banned from Schengen for trying to organise white supremacist events, has now come out as a supporter of terrorism and organised another torch burning session at Charlottesville - this is the alt right in a nut shell.

http://www.richmond.com/news/virginia/white-nationalists-stage-torch-lit-rally-at-charlottesville-s-lee/article_4e89b8d6-9b0d-5beb-877f-7dada87b93fb.html

johnnyskeleton

Mod note:

Amazingfun is a troll and has been banned. All responses to him/her have been deleted.

Owdetojoy

I can't figure out what is meant by Alt Right. If you take immigration in Ireland, we have very strict laws up until about 2005 (not sure of exact date). Then with the EU, European citizens could come here. So if immigration controls are considered wrong now in 2017, why were they not considered wrong 20 years ago?

oscarBravo

Owdetojoy wrote: »

I can't figure out what is meant by Alt Right. If you take immigration in Ireland, we have very strict laws up until about 2005 (not sure of exact date). Then with the EU, European citizens could come here. So if immigration controls are considered wrong now in 2017, why were they not considered wrong 20 years ago?

I can't figure out what the first sentence has to do with the rest of your post.

Brian?

Owdetojoy wrote: »

I can't figure out what is meant by Alt Right. If you take immigration in Ireland, we have very strict laws up until about 2005 (not sure of exact date). Then with the EU, European citizens could come here. So if immigration controls are considered wrong now in 2017, why were they not considered wrong 20 years ago?

Since we joined the EU we haven’t had any real control on immigration from within the EU. What changed was the members of the EU, so Ireland became attractive to new EU citizens.

What had any of this got to do with a definition of the alt right?

The alt right are a but of white supremacists who hide on the internet mainly. They deny being white supremacists.

Owdetojoy

oscarBravo wrote: »

I can't figure out what the first sentence has to do with the rest of your post.

The point I make is that what is considered extreme now in 2017 (wanting restrictions on immigration) was the norm a few short years ago. Of the Alt Right are to be considered to be some type of reactionary movement now, why was their policy not reactionary when it was the law. Its the environment which has change in my view and the Alt Right is just a groups which wants to keep things as they were.

Owdetojoy

Brian? wrote: »

Since we joined the EU we haven’t had any real control on immigration from within the EU. What changed was the members of the EU, so Ireland became attractive to new EU citizens.

What had any of this got to do with a definition of the alt right?

The alt right are a but of white supremacists who hide on the internet mainly. They deny being white supremacists.

I don't think there is a settled definition of the term Alt Right, that is why we are discussing it here. As I understand it Nigel Farage and the Party UKIP fell into that category and so does US President Donald Trump. I would argue that these are not racist or white supremacists at all.

A common theme of the Alt Right is immigration restrictions and control of borders. This seems to be considered by critics as racism because a high proportion of would be immigrants would be non-white people.

Brian?

Owdetojoy wrote: »

I don't think there is a settled definition of the term Alt Right, that is why we are discussing it here. As I understand it Nigel Farage and the Party UKIP fell into that category and so does US President Donald Trump. I would argue that these are not racist or white supremacists at all.

A common theme of the Alt Right is immigration restrictions and control of borders. This seems to be considered by critics as racism because a high proportion of would be immigrants would be non-white people.

I’m happy with my settled version. I don’t think Trump or Farage are white supremacists either. But they continuously use racist dog whistles to court the white supremicist vote.

Trump’s reaction to the Charlottesville mess is enough to tell you he isn’t pushing the white supremacists away.

Speaking of Charlottesville, the alt right leaders marched side by side with Neo Nazis and the KKK.

So no, the alt right aren’t just anti immigration. They’re actual white supremacists. They like to call it white “nationalim”, but that’s simply a rebranding.

Brian?

Owdetojoy wrote: »

The point I make is that what is considered extreme now in 2017 (wanting restrictions on immigration) was the norm a few short years ago. Of the Alt Right are to be considered to be some type of reactionary movement now, why was their policy not reactionary when it was the law. Its the environment which has change in my view and the Alt Right is just a groups which wants to keep things as they were.

No. They don’t. They want the non white minorities to go back where they came from. They want to stay in the country their ancestors emigrated to though. They’re the good immigrants apparently.

demfad

Excellent article by Buzzfeed here getting right to the essence of what the alt-right really is. The proof of the assertions here are documented bu email and docs from Bannon, The Mercers, Milo, characters from the alt-right, a writer from the Daily stormer and mainstream politicians and low paid internet trolls.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/josephbernstein/heres-how-breitbart-and-milo-smuggled-white-nationalism?utm_term=.pyJlgxjlD#.tuvJA6aJ4

Twitter thread here for the more concise version:

https://twitter.com/slpng_giants/status/916064003176067072

It shows how Bannon was grooming Milo to be a star and how Milo was funded by the Mercers. It shows how the alt-right were writing articles for Breitbart and these articles were being laundered through Breitbart.

The alt-right isn't really an organic mass reaction to liberalism: It is a carefully designed propaganda operation blowing itself out of all proportion and providing an entry point for hate and white supremacy into main stream discourse.

An analogy might be the great wizard of Oz using tricks to massively overemphasise his size and power to fool people. This article has pulled the curtain back to reveal the Mercers, Bannon, Milo and a few hateful racists tricking us all.

Another useful analogy for the alt-right internet trolls that spread this stuff and that mirror their Russian cousins: Think of the trolls of Sauron and Saruman in Lord of the rings.

This machine run by the Mercers coordinates and cooperates with Putins machine for mutually beneficial outcomes: Trump/White nationalism in USA; Breakup of EU; Brexit.

Billy86

Ties in nicely with Brian's point that they 'mainly exist on the internet'.

demfad

Billy86 wrote: »

Ties in nicely with Brian's point that they 'mainly exist on the internet'.

Yes indeed. And if we're wondering where the phrases 'Snowflake', 'Virtue signalling' 'Cuck' etc suddenly popped out of we can assume they were carefully chosen by a few individuals not organically created as most other phrases are.

To think that the paper of record 'The Irish Times' printed a glossary of alt-right terms penned by one of these trolls (that guy Pell).

This should be a golden age for investigative journalism. Well done to Buzzfeed for their achievement with this article.

Billy86

Between things like this and the Steele Dossier, it is weird how Buzzfeed of "top 10 signs you're a 90s kid" clickbait fame have been churning out some absolutely massive, cutting edge stories.

Tony EH

Billy86 wrote: »

Ties in nicely with Brian's point that they 'mainly exist on the internet'.

I think it's obvious to anyone that actually talks to real people that these extremities from both sides exist largely on the internet only.

It's the form that's at fault really. The internet lets people stake out a position and remain completely immovable from it. It also removes body language, sound and faces from the discussion, meaning that either participant is conjuring up a visual representation in their heads and they, more often than not, adhere to the most basic stereotypes that further allows entrenchment.

90% of folk you'll meet in real life wouldn't have even heard of the term Alt-Right, or even have a clue who "belongs" in that bracket, irrespective of the fact that the likes of Trump as mentioned it over time.

To me, though, even if it is largely on the web, it remains a concerning trend that some on the left and right are becoming so extreme and binary in their views.

demfad

Tony EH wrote: »

I think it's obvious to anyone that actually talks to real people that these extremities from both sides exist largely on the internet only.

It's the form that's at fault really. The internet lets people stake out a position and remain completely immovable from it. It also removes body language, sound and faces from the discussion, meaning that either participant is conjuring up a visual representation in their heads and they, more often than not, adhere to the most basic stereotypes that further allows entrenchment.

90% of folk you'll meet in real life wouldn't have even heard of the term Alt-Right, or even have a clue who "belongs" in that bracket, irrespective of the fact that the likes of Trump as mentioned it over time.

To me, though, even if it is largely on the web, it remains a concerning trend that some on the left and right are becoming so extreme and binary in their views.

Did you read the article?

The point is that the likes of Steve Bannon, Milo, Mercers are laundering hate from these obscure sources into the mainstream via the internet.

They WANT you to believe its a huge ongoing problem they also want you to believe that there are 'two of them at it'.
There is no equivalence between the alt-right and the alt-left (made up term by Bannon/Trump and co.).
A lot of the antifa sites on the internet are afke: set up by the likes of Mercers trolls or Russian trolls. Take a look:

https://twitter.com/conspirator0/status/913588459847208961

This type of exageration of size and creation of bogeymen enemies (antifa) occureed in Germany during Hitlers rise.
It is not new although the means of propaganda can reach and fool more people now.