The alt right - Mod Warning in OP

demfad

ScumLord wrote: »

The problem is the alt-right has a point. The liberals were gone off the plot, shaming people for even the tiniest infraction or misspoken word, they were ready to jump on anyone at a moment's notice, would willfully take things out of context to vilify people.

I think part of that is down to special interest groups. They would go out of their way to find something to be offended by and then run to the press who would be all too happy to rock the boat by taking things to the next level of sensationalism. then we end up listening to the most polarised views because that's the only story the media wanted to promote.

In all probability if you kept the media out of it and just let the two sides talk we'd find the vast majority aren't as polarised in their views, agree on a lot of points and would be happy to find a compromise. But because everyone's been offended and the media keep stirring nobody wants to even contemplate a resolution, we're having far too much fun arguing nonsensical points.

What political correctness are you talking about?
Highlighting domestic violence? Legalising homosexuality and gay marriage?
Allowing trans kids to use their preferred loos? This is stuff to cause a fascist uprising is it?
The truth is that the right wing lying media and populists jumped on people's misfortune and worst instincts to get into power.
This wasnt an honest reaction to liberalism. Do you think people getting murdered because of their skin colour or nationality is fun? Families who have lived together and contributed massively to their country getting deported for no reason..this is fun is it?
How about a big war? Another 100 million dead or what about a nuclear war? will that sort out the political correctness?

The Nazis will lose this time again. Their orange hero will be tried as the traitor and deporable he is. His supporters will crawl back where they belong.

ancapailldorcha

demfad wrote: »

What political correctness are you talking about?
Highlighting domestic violence? Legalising homosexuality and gay marriage?
Allowing trans kids to use their preferred loos? This is stuff to cause a fascist uprising is it?
The truth is that the right wing lying media and populists jumped on people's misfortune and worst instincts to get into power.
This wasnt an honest reaction to liberalism. Do you think people getting murdered because of their skin colour or nationality is fun? Families who have lived together and contributed massively to their country getting deported for no reason..this is fun is it?
How about a big war? Another 100 million dead or what about a nuclear war? will that sort out the political correctness?

This is the virtuous side of it though. There's the more insidious side where you have people like Tim Hunt having their careers utterly destroyed for saying the wrong thing along with no-platforming on University campuses.

demfad wrote: »

The Nazis will lose this time again. Their orange hero will be tried as the traitor and deporable he is. His supporters will crawl back where they belong.

This just isn't helpful. Trump and his supporters are not Nazi's. This is an objective fact. Nobody's ever changed their views because someone from the other side has called them stupid, racist or whatever. There's certainly a lot of that in the alt right but you can't generalise 60 million people any more than the likes of Milo Yiannopoulos or Alex Jones can about 1.6 billion Muslims.

marienbad

demfad wrote: »

What political correctness are you talking about?
Highlighting domestic violence? Legalising homosexuality and gay marriage?
Allowing trans kids to use their preferred loos? This is stuff to cause a fascist uprising is it?
The truth is that the right wing lying media and populists jumped on people's misfortune and worst instincts to get into power.
This wasnt an honest reaction to liberalism. Do you think people getting murdered because of their skin colour or nationality is fun? Families who have lived together and contributed massively to their country getting deported for no reason..this is fun is it?
How about a big war? Another 100 million dead or what about a nuclear war? will that sort out the political correctness?

The Nazis will lose this time again. Their orange hero will be tried as the traitor and deporable he is. His supporters will crawl back where they belong.

Be reasonable , I doubt the poster is condoning any of that , but in our efforts at political correctness the pendulum went too far and unleashed forces that while we may have won a multiplicity of small battles , may have cost us the war .

red ears

demfad wrote: »

Do you think people getting murdered because of their skin colour or nationality is fun?.

Who is that happening to?

demfad

marienbad wrote: »

Be reasonable , I doubt the poster is condoning any of that , but in our efforts at political correctness the pendulum went too far and unleashed forces that while we may have won a multiplicity of small battles , may have cost us the war .

I don't agree. I am quite sure that Steve Bannon, Robert Mercer, Farage, Putin, Dugin fundamentalist Christians and the other architects of the global patriarcal nationalism we are witnessing grew more emboldened by political correctness. When recession kicks in: submerged racism and bigotry resurface. They predicted this and used it. As well as invading the Republican party they successfully blamed globalisation for the ills of the white people, and liberals for globalisation. What did president Obama do wrong? Apart from being brown. You may believe the lie that liberalism caused fascism. Remember who is telling you that lie.

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

This is the virtuous side of it though. There's the more insidious side where you have people like Tim Hunt having their careers utterly destroyed for saying the wrong thing along with no-platforming on University campuses.

No platforming at University campuses? Do I have the right to talk at University campuses whenever I like? Why not?
Racist speech begets racist violence. Its only free speech for those who do not suffer the resultant violence.

This just isn't helpful. Trump and his supporters are not Nazi's. This is an objective fact. Nobody's ever changed their views because someone from the other side has called them stupid, racist or whatever. There's certainly a lot of that in the alt right but you can't generalise 60 million people any more than the likes of Milo Yiannopoulos or Alex Jones can about 1.6 billion Muslims.

I didn't call all of Trumps supporters Nazis any more than I would call all the German people who backed Adolf Hitler Nazis.
A situation of authoritanarianism arises from slow erodiion leading to a moment where power can be grabbed. Here is Trumps views on Eugenics:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-president-superior-genes-pbs-documentary-eugenics-a7338821.html

And here is a Trump supporting congressman who feels he is free to say this about race under Trump:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-39250251

Lets examine youre objective fact about Nazis. Its early days but here are Fourteen Defining
Characteristics Of Fascism

1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism - Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.
Trumps Overuse of US flags and symbols.

2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights - Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.
Treatment of refugees, Muslim ban, Immigrant deportations, no admin comment on white terrorism, anti-semitic/race attacks.

3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause - The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.
'Terrorist' immigrant/refugees, immigrants, liberals, muslims etc

4. Supremacy of the Military - Even when there are widespread
domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.
Massive increase in Defence budget and slashing of social budgets eg AC ACT, environment etc.

5. Rampant Sexism - The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Divorce, abortion and homosexuality are suppressed and the state is represented as the ultimate guardian of the family institution.
Attacks already on abortion, gay rights, domestic violence protections, contraception etc.

6. Controlled Mass Media - Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.
Fake news!, Lying MSM, Excluding certain media outlets from Whitehosue, promoting RW propaganda outlets like Breitbart, Fox, Drudge report, infowars etc.

7. Obsession with National Security - Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.
Imminent terrorism, Iran, China etc etc

8. Religion and Government are Intertwined - Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions.
Council for National Policy (religious Statists) have 25 members nominated in top 100 Whitehouse positions. VP=Pence, enough said. Bill unseperating Church and State introduced. DeVos religious control over education etc. etc.

9. Corporate Power is Protected - The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.
Robert/Rebecah Mercer bankrolled Trump to power. Billionaires run cabinet. Kleptocracy well established.

10. Labor Power is Suppressed - Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed.
The proposed labour secretary wanted repeal of overtyime and minimum wage. Trump has already attacked Unions.

11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts - Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts and letters is openly attacked.
Early antipathy to/demonisation of elites and experts.

12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment - Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.
The Law and Order candidate. ICE are a loyal force. Loyalty of border guards also tested during 1st ban. Trump has installed his own private security firm in the WH, who have already been ejecting journalists.

13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption - Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.
The Trumps, Kushner, Ross, Tillerson, DeVos. The Kleptocarcy has already begun in earnest. Using power to earn money, awarding contracts to cronies. Steve Roth favoured for 1.1 trillion infrastructure project, already got 2 billion FBI buildings. Much much more here.

14. Fraudulent Elections - Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.
Trump has tried to challenge and weaken the judiciary. He has his man Sessions as US attorney General. Talk of election fraud, election investigations which might weaken voter rights act even more. To be seen

Objectively, Trump is not a member of the Nazi party. But as that word is understood can you really state it as objective fact that Trump and his gang are not Nazis or fascists?

ancapailldorcha

demfad wrote: »

No platforming at University campuses? Do I have the right to talk at University campuses whenever I like? Why not?
Racist speech begets racist violence. Its only free speech for those who do not suffer the resultant violence.

And the Tim Hunt scandal? The shirt scandal?

Universities are supposed to be a hotbead of ideas and debate, not echo chambers. Students campaigning to shut down speakers whose views they disagree with is something you think is fine, is it?

demfad wrote: »

I didn't call all of Trumps supporters Nazis any more than I would call all the German people who backed Adolf Hitler Nazis.

Yes, you did:

demfad wrote: »

The Nazis will lose this time again. Their orange hero will be tried as the traitor and deporable he is. His supporters will crawl back where they belong.

Believing you have superior genes doesn't a eugenicist make. Trump is a blowhard who has made a wide range of fantastical and farcical claims to get attention. A tenuous claim at best.

marienbad

demfad wrote: »

I don't agree. I am quite sure that Steve Bannon, Robert Mercer, Farage, Putin, Dugin fundamentalist Christians and the other architects of the global patriarcal nationalism we are witnessing grew more emboldened by political correctness. When recession kicks in: submerged racism and bigotry resurface. They predicted this and used it. As well as invading the Republican party they successfully blamed globalisation for the ills of the white people, and liberals for globalisation. What did president Obama do wrong? Apart from being brown. You may believe the lie that liberalism caused fascism. Remember who is telling you that lie.

Well we will just have to disagree then , you either agree with free speech or you don't , so long as someone is within the law they should be able to say what they wish .

What political correctness in the extreme form it took was did to piss off the middle ground . And when you lose the middle ground you lose elections .

So you need to ask yourself do you want to be right or do you want to win .

personally - I always want to win

demfad

marienbad wrote: »

Well we will just have to disagree then , you either agree with free speech or you don't , so long as someone is within the law they should be able to say what they wish .

What political correctness in the extreme form it took was did to piss off the middle ground . And when you lose the middle ground you lose elections .

So you need to ask yourself do you want to be right or do you want to win .

personally - I always want to win

I fully agree that people should be allowed to do say what they wish within the law. But saying things will have consequences within the law. Fascist snowflakes dont get this: they wish to be spared these consequences.

Fascists are perfectly within their rights to wish to have a platform to shout their bile. The people who control such a platform are equally within their rights to deny them it. Or am i missing something?

So you believe the deportation of immigrants, the muslim ban, murder of coloured people are all natural consequences of political correctness gone mad? It is liberals to blame not the low lifes carrying out these arocities?

ancapailldorcha

demfad wrote: »

I fully agree that people should be allowed to do say what they wish within the law. But saying things will have consequences within the law. Fascist snowflakes dont get this: they wish to be spared these consequences.

Fascists are perfectly within their rights to wish to have a platform to shout their bile. The people who control such a platform are equally within their rights to deny them it. Or am i missing something?

So you support the right of NeoNazi's marching on public streets then?

demfad wrote: »

So you believe the deportation of immigrants, the muslim ban, murder of coloured people are all natural consequences of political correctness gone mad? It is liberals to blame not the low lifes carrying out these arocities?

Why do you keep strawmanning people here?

demfad

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

And the Tim Hunt scandal? The shirt scandal?

Universities are supposed to be a hotbead of ideas and debate, not echo chambers. Students campaigning to shut down speakers whose views they disagree with is something you think is fine, is it?

They can do what they like as can the organisers of these events.
As ive said racist speech begets racist violence. No doubt you or I wont have to deal with that. Should everyone be granted a platform?

Yes, you did:

You can take my meaning as his supporters to mean those behind them in his campaign.

Believing you have superior genes doesn't a eugenicist make. Trump is a blowhard who has made a wide range of fantastical and farcical claims to get attention. A tenuous claim at best.

Are the policies he is enacting as president of the united states farcical?

Do you agree that the Trump administration aligns with the characteristics of fascism that I posted?

demfad

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

So you support the right of NeoNazi's marching on public streets then?

They have a right to walk the street. They have a right to speak in public places. They Do NOT have a right to speak in public events without the organisers permission.

Why do you keep strawmanning people here?

What kind of a comment is that?

I have more than anyone on this thread based my assertions on fact.
If you don't understand authoritanarianism or the horror and fear currently gripping the US tyhen perhaps you should inform yourself.
Becuase if you blame political correctness on what is taking place there any informed intelligent person will give you an answer as I did.

ancapailldorcha

demfad wrote: »

They can do what they like as can the organisers of these events.
As ive said racist speech begets racist violence. No doubt you or I wont have to deal with that. Should everyone be granted a platform?

If you believe in free speech, then yes. Do you think it's right that students are able to no platform speakers they disagree with? I mean morally right, not the right of the Universities to respond to the pressure.

demfad wrote: »

You can take my meaning as his supporters to mean those behind them in his campaign.

You explicitly used the term "Nazis". That's the meaning I've taken.

demfad wrote: »

Are the policies he is enacting as president of the united states farcical?

Do you agree that the Trump administration aligns with the characteristics of fascism that I posted?

I think they're pretty terrible policies and that Trump is likely to make many of the people who voted for him poorer. The GOP's Healthcare bill is a good example. I think there are certainly fascist tendencies within his cabinet and organisation but comparisons with the Third Reich are wildly inaccurate.

marienbad

demfad wrote: »

I fully agree that people should be allowed to do say what they wish within the law. But saying things will have consequences within the law. Fascist snowflakes dont get this: they wish to be spared these consequences.

Fascists are perfectly within their rights to wish to have a platform to shout their bile. The people who control such a platform are equally within their rights to deny them it. Or am i missing something?

So you believe the deportation of immigrants, the muslim ban, murder of coloured people are all natural consequences of political correctness gone mad? It is liberals to blame not the low lifes carrying out these arocities?

Don't be ridiculous . that's all I need say to that .

Just like political correctness you go from one extreme to the other .

ancapailldorcha

demfad wrote: »

They have a right to walk the street. They have a right to speak in public places. They Do NOT have a right to speak in public events without the organisers permission.

They themselves are the organisers. That's my point. If I lead a group into a public park and start ranting about Muslims, I'm the organiser.

demfad wrote: »

What kind of a comment is that?

You seem to think that anyone who disagrees with you supports Trump and/or his polices and racist ideas. I don't. I have trouble with elements of political correctness and modern activism. That doesn't mean I am blind to the good it's done nor does it make me a racist, xenophobic, homophobic, transphobic or whatever.

demfad

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

If you believe in free speech, then yes. Do you think it's right that students are able to no platform speakers they disagree with? I mean morally right, not the right of the Universities to respond to the pressure.

So if I request to be allowed speak at an event the organiser is obliged to grant me a platform otherwise he is denying me free speech?

If the student believes that racist speech begets racist violence then perhaps he would be morally right to oppose hateful speech.
If the student believed that white identity and nationalism are morally just then perhaps he would be morally right to encourage a speaker he likes.

You explicitly used the term "Nazis". That's the meaning I've taken.

Well he is NOT a member of the Nazi party. But that is never the meaning used on political discussion bnoards. Here it means 'Fascist' and I have demonstrated that this administration obeys those characteristics.

I think they're pretty terrible policies and that Trump is likely to make many of the people who voted for him poorer. The GOP's Healthcare bill is a good example. I think there are certainly fascist tendencies within his cabinet and organisation but comparisons with the Third Reich are wildly inaccurate.

The extermination camps etc happenned late in the Nazi regime. The early years of power Germany was a country not that much different to Russia now. We are 50 days in. The State department is empty with 37% of cuts invoked to gut it. Experts on autocracy like Sarah Kendzior have siad that thsi man is an autocrat and have outlined the tactics that will be used to erode the US democracy. She knows what she is talking about.
If Trump gains his autocracy I don't honestly see him having any bother wasting 5-10 million in a war or by nuclear attack for selfish means or to shore up support. He has often mused about why the US has not used nuclear weapons while possessing so many.

People naively believe that the evil that created Nazism is long gone. It may be more or less gone from Germany, but it is living in the US and in many parts of Europe. If you dont understand a Global movement to have fascist leaders replace the current world order then you are naive in the extreme.

ancapailldorcha

demfad wrote: »

So if I request to be allowed speak at an event the organiser is obliged to grant me a platform otherwise he is denying me free speech?

Another strawman... I never made this claim.

demfad wrote: »

If the student believes that racist speech begets racist violence then perhaps he would be morally right to oppose hateful speech.
If the student believed that white identity and nationalism are morally just then perhaps he would be morally right to encourage a speaker he likes.

Perhaps. However, "Hate speech" is becoming a catch-all for "Opinions I don't like".

demfad wrote: »

Well he is NOT a member of the Nazi party. But that is never the meaning used on political discussion boards. Here it means 'Fascist' and I have demonstrated that this administration obeys those characteristics.

You say this and then you move onto extermination camps which runs contrary to your main point about using that term.

demfad

marienbad wrote: »

Don't be ridiculous . that's all I need say to that .

Just like political correctness you go from one extreme to the other .

Sorry but the thrust of your argument was that political correctness 'unleashed forces'. You cannot blame political correctness for the racism, xenophobia, mysogyny etc that we see ruling the US today.

marienbad wrote: »

Be reasonable , I doubt the poster is condoning any of that , but in our efforts at political correctness the pendulum went too far and unleashed forces that while we may have won a multiplicity of small battles , may have cost us the war .

marienbad wrote: »

Well we will just have to disagree then , you either agree with free speech or you don't , so long as someone is within the law they should be able to say what they wish .

What political correctness in the extreme form it took was did to piss off the middle ground . And when you lose the middle ground you lose elections .

So you need to ask yourself do you want to be right or do you want to win .

personally - I always want to win

demfad

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Another strawman... I never made this claim.

You implied it below. Organisers have the right to choose who speaks on their platform. End of.

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Do you think it's right that students are able to no platform speakers they disagree with?

You seem to think that anyone who disagrees with you supports Trump and/or his polices and racist ideas. I don't.

No I don't, that's a strawman. I have issue with those who blame the existance of Trump/Bannon/Farage/Dugin on political correctness. You are believing their lie.

I have trouble with elements of political correctness and modern activism. That doesn't mean I am blind to the good it's done nor does it make me a racist, xenophobic, homophobic, transphobic or whatever.

I never said it did. My issue with you is allowing yourself to be persuaded by the right wing lie that political correctness is somehow to blame for the rise of people like Donald Trump. It has nothing to do with it.

Perhaps. However, "Hate speech" is becoming a catch-all for "Opinions I don't like".

No its not. Again you take the Bannonite line. If you are saying that some people are inferior to others based on skin colour, religion, nationality, gender, sexual persuasion you are spreading hatred of these groups.
You can do it if you wish as long as its legal.
Now if i was hosting an event I would not tolerate such a speaker because i BELIEVE that such talk incites violence and my platform would be misused for hurting people. I would say no. You seem to be saying that I would be denying this person their free speech. He can speak on any platform he is allowed to speak on. Same rules as everyone else.

You say this and then you move onto extermination camps which runs contrary to your main point about using that term

Deal with the point I actually made.

Compare Trumps first 50 days to the first 50 days of the 3rd Reich or any other fascist regime. Democracy is eroded slowly.

marienbad

demfad wrote: »

Sorry but the thrust of your argument was that political correctness 'unleashed forces'. You cannot blame political correctness for the racism, xenophobia, mysogyny etc that we see ruling the US today.

A number of things contributed , political correctness is one , the explosion of social media to weaponise political correctness and its mirror image is another , anonymity is another - there are loads of reasons .

But you don't defeat fascism by becoming fascist . A couple of posts ago you labelled the other side snowflakes and more or less said if their comments unleash violence then tough - that just makes you a fascist .

And it raises further questions - who decides what is acceptable speech and what is not ? Whoever can gather the biggest mob at a venue or online ?

That kind of thinking is what led to this -https://youtu.be/SOxhEK168EQ

demfad

marienbad wrote: »

A number of things contributed , political correctness is one , the explosion of social media to weaponise political correctness and its mirror image is another , anonymity is another - there are loads of reasons .

But you don't defeat fascism by becoming fascist . A couple of posts ago you labelled the other side snowflakes and more or less said if their comments unleash violence then tough - that just makes you a fascist .

And it raises further questions - who decides what is acceptable speech and what is not ? Whoever can gather the biggest mob at a venue or online ?

That kind of thinking is what led to this -https://youtu.be/SOxhEK168EQ

Trump was funded by Robert Mercer who is a white supremacist, climate change denier, mysoginist, religious nut etc etc.
He owns Bannon and Conway. Both are members of the Council for National Policy which is an ultra right religious Statist group. 26% of the US electorate are evangelists and Trump/Bannon promised this group everything on their wish list. That guaranteed Trump a huge chunk of unwavering support. Bannon controlled the Tea Party. The alt-right are very closely connected to the religious right and they and the 'red pill' group supported Trump.

Mercers daughter Rebecah had being funding the Government accountability Institute which had been creating propaganda films and books particularly attacking the Clintons over many years. The most famous being 'Clinton Cash'.
She was also the person behind the scenes of the 'Citizens United' victory which allowed big donors to reenter the candidate scene.

Trump had a huge issue: He had a despicable past with Russian mobsters, and his business was money laundering. He got help from the DNC hack and wikileaks (Russia) to strategically tie up the MSM (whose investigative side were weakened since the 2008 great crash) with email dumps. Every day. Day after day.

They used Cambridge Analytica which weaponised Social media, created 1000s of fake news propagation sites and hired the Russian troll army for Trumps cause. Every adult US facebook user could get a personalised psychograhic message from them.

They kept a suprise in reserve. It worked, TRump had only one big bubu and his religious backers were not going to walk away from all those promises. The bombshell (Comey letter) was dropped and Trump gets elected.

In spite of all this, Clinton won the popular vote by over 3 million. The Republican party was taken over NOT the democratic party.

Nothing to do with PC, just a lying narcissic sociopath used as a vessel for Mercer/Bannon and their new world order ambitions. (Mercer/Bannon heavily involved in Brexit)

If there is an issue it is with people not informing themselves and listening to catchy lines like PC gone mad. ****heads like Mercer and Bannon count on it.

marienbad

demfad wrote: »

Trump
.

Demfad can you do me a favour - please stop regurgitating ad nauseam your version of recent history as if none of us have a clue or even read a paper. Thanks

Now can I ask you a couple of questions - do you believe political correctness has in certain cases lost its way .

And secondly do you believe in limitations to free speech in addition to the current laws governing hate speech etc

ancapailldorcha

demfad wrote: »

You are believing their lie.

I'm choosing not to believe yours.

demfad wrote: »

I never said it did. My issue with you is allowing yourself to be persuaded by the right wing lie that political correctness is somehow to blame for the rise of people like Donald Trump. It has nothing to do with it.

Another claim that I did not make.

demfad wrote: »

No its not. Again you take the Bannonite line. If you are saying that some people are inferior to others based on skin colour, religion, nationality, gender, sexual persuasion you are spreading hatred of these groups.
You can do it if you wish as long as its legal.

That's not what Trump said though. He was talking about his own genes, not that of the white race, whatever that is.

demfad wrote: »

Compare Trumps first 50 days to the first 50 days of the 3rd Reich or any other fascist regime. Democracy is eroded slowly.

Eroded slowly? What planet are you living on? The most diverse country in the world with over 300 million inhabitants has a choice of 2 parties at the ballot box who might win.

demfad

marienbad wrote: »

Demfad can you do me a favour - please stop regurgitating ad nauseam your version of recent history as if none of us have a clue or even read a paper. Thanks

I dont understand. If you were informed and aware of what I outlined why on earth would you assert that political correctness caused Trumps victory in the US election?

(I didnt even touch on the gutting of the Voting Rights Acy which would have meant even Obama 2012 would have struggled to win the marginal states against Trump 2016, again nothing to do with political correctness)

Now can I ask you a couple of questions - do you believe political correctness has in certain cases lost its way .

Not to any significant degree as far as this discussion goes.

And secondly do you believe in limitations to free speech in addition to the current laws governing hate speech etc

Speech that incites hatred and violence should be illegal.
I am completely against blasphemy laws however. It should not be illegal to state that Mary, Jesus's mother was an iron-age middle eastern woman.

ScumLord

demfad wrote: »

What political correctness are you talking about?
Highlighting domestic violence? Legalising homosexuality and gay marriage?
Allowing trans kids to use their preferred loos? This is stuff to cause a fascist uprising is it?
The truth is that ......

This post is exactly the problem. I say one thing and you infer a lot of other stuff then replace my argument with your inferences and have an argument with yourself. You're not actually listening to what other people are saying, your just using what other people are saying as the ingredients to construct your own counter so you can just bounce this dogma around in your own head.

demfad

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

I'm choosing not to believe yours.

I have pointed out clearly that Trumps regime obeys all the characteristics of facism. Why wont you address this?

That's not what Trump said though. He was talking about his own genes, not that of the white race, whatever that is.

He talked about German genes. Bannon (who controls Trump) has studied Eugenics and is a follower of Fascist Alexandr Dugin. The Council for National Policy who controls the cabinet are White Christian supremacists. Rebekah Mercer who picked the White House staff is also of those beliefs.

Eroded slowly? What planet are you living on? The most diverse country in the world with over 300 million inhabitants has a choice of 2 parties at the ballot box who might win.

Eroded slowly since Trump took power.
I have covered most of these while showing his regime holds teh characteristics of fascism (which you seem to be ignoring).
His denigration of other Govt Depts, his attacks on the free press and the judiciary etc etc were not present before his presidency in this scale. This is a deliberate attempt to erode democracy, regardless of which planet you think I reside on.

demfad

ScumLord wrote: »

This post is exactly the problem. I say one thing and you infer a lot of other stuff then replace my argument with your inferences and have an argument with yourself. You're not actually listening to what other people are saying, your just using what other people are saying as the ingredients to construct your own counter so you can just bounce this dogma around in your own head.

You didn't say anything. You gave a diatribe about how sensationalist liberals are with no examples. My post is trying to ascertain if there is anything concrete to your point. I'm still in the dark unfortunately.

ScumLord

demfad wrote: »

You didn't say anything. You gave a diatribe about how sensationalist liberals are with no examples.

Not really, I said the alt-right have a point and rather than listen to it "Liberals" demonize their other points of view. I don't think people are taking onboard any alternative opinions or points of view, they're determined to have an argument.

marienbad

demfad wrote: »

I dont understand. If you were informed and aware of what I outlined why on earth would you assert that political correctness caused Trumps victory in the US election?

You really do live on the extremes don't you , I never said anything of the sort .



For example take this incident https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tsgc0k594Js

What is your opinion on that

demfad

ScumLord wrote: »

Not really, I said the alt-right have a point and rather than listen to it "Liberals" demonize their other points of view. I don't think people are taking onboard any alternative opinions or points of view, they're determined to have an argument.

You still provide no substantiation for your argument so I cant really comment further. Just because you say so does not make it so.

demfad

marienbad wrote: »

You really do live on the extremes don't you , I never said anything of the sort .

Yes, that is exactly what you said before asking my opinion on what you said: The below is you saying that political correctness pissed off the middle ground which makes you lose elections. Ergo reaction political correctness caused the result in the US general election. Or will you try and shift the goal posts again?
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marienbad wrote: »

What political correctness in the extreme form it took was did to piss off the middle ground . And when you lose the middle ground you lose elections .
What is your opinion on that

For example take this incident https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tsgc0k594Js

I've no idea what this is about or what you intend to prove by linking this video. This is one person talking in a yard.