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The alt right - Mod Warning in OP

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  • 16-11-2016 11:30pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 8,934 ✭✭✭20Cent


    What is the alt right?
    Been hearing the term used more frequently since Trump has been elected.
    I thought it was just milo and Katie Hopkins type trolling but it seems to be something bigger than that.

    Mod: There have been a fair few mod warnings on this thread now. Any posts which fall under the standard of discussion of the forum will likely be deleted and will face mod action. These include but are not limited to one-liners, videodumps and insults. Please consult the charter if unsure or contact a mod.

    Thanks.


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Comments

  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 9,681 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manach


    From a subjective basis and purely on my flawed observations:

    They are the mirror image of the SJW types. There are a few common threads, disengagement with conventional politics and a wiliness to rebel against the now liberal societal norms. There are a disparate groups, from the alt-white that are taking the identity language politics pioneered by the left to disillusioned libertarians or those who feel ill at place in a very change world. In the US some of their ideological writers are the likes of Ann Coulter and they subscribe to newsite Breitbart (named after the late right-wing journalist of that name who had little time for the main stream national press). They also seem to have a distaste for old-school conservatives (hence the phrase cuckservative) who they regard as the perennial bow-tied losers to the left in the culture wars. They seem to more open to alternative life style choices, so long as they are perceived to be on message ( hence Milo Y. will remain a key figure in their ranks),

    To sum up, the alt-right have taking the culture shaming tags used by the PC left and have embraced them as badges of merit.


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    20Cent wrote: »
    What is the alt right?
    Been hearing the term used more frequently since Trump has been elected.
    I thought it was just milo and Katie Hopkins type trolling but it seems to be something bigger than that.

    It's not a whole lot more than that tbh. A loose and lazy label for a broad range of reactionaries - from white pride racists to the professional dicks you mentioned. It's simply those who don't fall under the umbrella of mainstream conservatism groupings. There's not a whole lot of commonality amongst this supposed group.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,934 ✭✭✭20Cent


    What do the alt right actually want?

    Do they want to be racist etc without anyone pulling them up on it?


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,934 ✭✭✭20Cent


    Manach wrote: »
    From a subjective basis and purely on my flawed observations:

    They are the mirror image of the SJW types. There are a few common threads, disengagement with conventional politics and a wiliness to rebel against the now liberal societal norms. There are a disparate groups, from the alt-white that are taking the identity language politics pioneered by the left to disillusioned libertarians or those who feel ill at place in a very change world. In the US some of their ideological writers are the likes of Ann Coulter and they subscribe to newsite Breitbart (named after the late right-wing journalist of that name who had little time for the main stream national press). They also seem to have a distaste for old-school conservatives (hence the phrase cuckservative) who they regard as the perennial bow-tied losers to the left in the culture wars. They seem to more open to alternative life style choices, so long as they are perceived to be on message ( hence Milo Y. will remain a key figure in their ranks),

    To sum up, the alt-right have taking the culture shaming tags used by the PC left and have embraced them as badges of merit.

    Ann Coulter, Breitbart, Milo are there any intellectual alt right leaders or is it more a low brow thing?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,748 ✭✭✭✭Inquitus


    Go to https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/ for a true insight into the Alt Right at ground level


  • Registered Users Posts: 27,322 ✭✭✭✭super_furry


    20Cent wrote: »
    What do the alt right actually want?

    Do they want to be racist etc without anyone pulling them up on it?

    Kinda. For the most part they're operating under the misconception that “straight white men” are being oppressed and victimised from all angles. As they see it black people, feminists, politicians, teachers and all myriad other ranges of “liberals”, are actively conspiring to take their rights away and subjugate them.

    It's a movement born from American internet forums and one that's slowly spread. Professional conspiracy theorists like Alex Jones and professional provocateurs like Ann Coulter and Breitbart have helped to grow it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    20Cent wrote: »
    Ann Coulter, Breitbart, Milo are there any intellectual alt right leaders or is it more a low brow thing?

    Nick Land, and the dark enlightenment is about as 'intellectual' as it gets with this bunch. http://www.thedarkenlightenment.com/the-dark-enlightenment-by-nick-land/


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,863 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    This is an important topic well worthy of an intelligent debate. Refrain from posting memes please.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,404 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    It full of contradictions.

    For example as far as I can make out they have no issue with being gay just don't try and have your rights valuated by a court especially the supreme court, the seem to have a hatred of legally mandated rights.

    However I was reading a piece by a conservative critic of global development in poorer countries and it was highly critical of the likes of the Bill and Melinda Gates foundation approach arguing that the only development that works is organic grassroots/people solving there own problem ( something I agree with ) along with legal rights for the poor in developing countries, so on the one had a dislike of legal right on the other hand not.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,934 ✭✭✭20Cent


    So found out a bit more about this alt right. Ironically they communicate quite a lot by meme. They are mostly single white males attracted to female Japanese cartoon characters drawn in a style called anime. The don't seem to have any founding principles, intellectual leadership or presence off the internet. They mostly come from 4chan or another anime site called 8chan.

    The alt-right supports the mass deportation of undocumented immigrants and protectionist trade policies. It opposes feminism, diversity, gay rights, globalism, gun control and civil rights.
    Professor Thomas J. Main

    They are a backlash against the "social justice warrior" and political correctness. They also are against traditional mainstream conservatism which they consider to be ignoring the most important issues. Namely why can't they call Caitlin Jenner He, why are Muslims still breathing and why do people challenge their opinions.

    They have latched onto Donald Trump since he "tells it like it is" and has policies to their liking. Mostly the deportations of millions of people from the US and open discrimination against Muslims. They are also big fans of building a 25 billion dollar wall across 3,000km of desert and mountains.


    That right?


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    Manach wrote: »
    From a subjective basis and purely on my flawed observations:

    They are the mirror image of the SJW types. There are a few common threads, disengagement with conventional politics and a wiliness to rebel against the now liberal societal norms. There are a disparate groups, from the alt-white that are taking the identity language politics pioneered by the left to disillusioned libertarians or those who feel ill at place in a very change world. In the US some of their ideological writers are the likes of Ann Coulter and they subscribe to newsite Breitbart (named after the late right-wing journalist of that name who had little time for the main stream national press). They also seem to have a distaste for old-school conservatives (hence the phrase cuckservative) who they regard as the perennial bow-tied losers to the left in the culture wars. They seem to more open to alternative life style choices, so long as they are perceived to be on message ( hence Milo Y. will remain a key figure in their ranks),

    To sum up, the alt-right have taking the culture shaming tags used by the PC left and have embraced them as badges of merit.

    This is a good description. An example would be the term "sh!t lord" which was coined by SRS (arguably the original root of the SJW movement) to describe un-PC people, whereas those on the alt-right jokingly refer to themselves as sh!t lords and say things like "Don't you know I'm the LORD of sh!t? Bow down peasants" and what not.

    As I've said in my thread about Brexit and Trump in the Cafe, I fully believe the alt-right to be a nasty and inevitable consequence of SJW muppetry on the left, which could easily be described as the alt-left. They started a cultural war which they were apparently blind to the natural consequences of - namely, the creation of an equally extremist counter force on the opposite side.


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    This is a good description. An example would be the term "sh!t lord" which was coined by SRS (arguably the original root of the SJW movement) to describe un-PC people, whereas those on the alt-right jokingly refer to themselves as sh!t lords and say things like "Don't you know I'm the LORD of sh!t? Bow down peasants" and what not.

    As I've said in my thread about Brexit and Trump in the Cafe, I fully believe the alt-right to be a nasty and inevitable consequence of SJW muppetry on the left, which could easily be described as the alt-left. They started a cultural war which they were apparently blind to the natural consequences of - namely, the creation of an equally extremist counter force on the opposite side.

    When they finally get girlfriends, they'll grow tired of being trolls.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,934 ✭✭✭20Cent


    So the alt right Queen Milo interviewed on Channel 4 News. There is the usual shouting talking over and rude behavior from him. It does highlight a large issue with the alt right.

    That is can one be provocative/satirical/mischievous or serious but not both.

    They also have their own definitions of issues ie what feminism is.
    One interesting thing is how he says they want to be fact based and post truth.

    You can actually see the moment milo realises he's been shown to be full of it at about 4.50.



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,017 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    20Cent wrote: »
    So the alt right Queen Milo interviewed on Channel 4 News. There is the usual shouting talking over and rude behavior from him. It does highlight a large issue with the alt right.

    That is can one be provocative/satirical/mischievous or serious but not both.

    They also have their own definitions of issues ie what feminism is.
    One interesting thing is how he says they want to be fact based and post truth.

    You can actually see the moment milo realises he's been shown to be full of it at about 4.50.


    I wonder if these alt right talking heads all go to a class that teaches them a particular interview style. Milo, Ann Coulter, Katie Hopkins etc. all have the exact same delivery in interviews. They talk about what the want to talk about, regardless of the questions asked. They interrupt and behave condescendingly towards the interviewer. For me, whatever intelligent points are contained in their word salad gets lost in delivery.

    there seems to be this belief that the alt right is a reaction to something on the left. I am not aware of a single hate monger on the left that can be compared to these people. They profess to be "telling it like it is", but they aren't. They are pouring a potent mixture of half truths and anti immigration rhetoric into the conversation. They are telling it like they see it, because they are afraid. Afraid of social progress which inevitably shifts society more tolerant.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




  • Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    20Cent wrote: »
    So found out a bit more about this alt right. Ironically they communicate quite a lot by meme. They are mostly single white males attracted to female Japanese cartoon characters drawn in a style called anime. The don't seem to have any founding principles, intellectual leadership or presence off the internet. They mostly come from 4chan or another anime site called 8chan.

    The alt-right supports the mass deportation of undocumented immigrants and protectionist trade policies. It opposes feminism, diversity, gay rights, globalism, gun control and civil rights.
    Professor Thomas J. Main

    They are a backlash against the "social justice warrior" and political correctness. They also are against traditional mainstream conservatism which they consider to be ignoring the most important issues. Namely why can't they call Caitlin Jenner He, why are Muslims still breathing and why do people challenge their opinions.

    They have latched onto Donald Trump since he "tells it like it is" and has policies to their liking. Mostly the deportations of millions of people from the US and open discrimination against Muslims. They are also big fans of building a 25 billion dollar wall across 3,000km of desert and mountains.


    That right?

    Milo was on the BBC radio podcast the Briefing Room and that about sums it up, speaks well and makes some good general, vague points but there is no real substance to it. It's typical reactive conservatism, your Stormfront types, conspiracy theorists and the mens rights/PUA groups that have grown up over the last 10 years or so. The common denominator is fear.

    When asked to name anything constructive that might out of this, something specific or an actual plan, he was at a loss.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,269 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    Why is this chap being interviewed by C4? He once worked for Steve Bannon?


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,863 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Why is this chap being interviewed by C4? He once worked for Steve Bannon?

    Still does AFAIK. He's Breitbart's technology editor unless he recently left.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,858 ✭✭✭✭PopePalpatine


    Brian? wrote: »
    I wonder if these alt right talking heads all go to a class that teaches them a particular interview style. Milo, Ann Coulter, Katie Hopkins etc. all have the exact same delivery in interviews. They talk about what the want to talk about, regardless of the questions asked. They interrupt and behave condescendingly towards the interviewer. For me, whatever intelligent points are contained in their word salad gets lost in delivery.

    there seems to be this belief that the alt right is a reaction to something on the left. I am not aware of a single hate monger on the left that can be compared to these people. They profess to be "telling it like it is", but they aren't. They are pouring a potent mixture of half truths and anti immigration rhetoric into the conversation. They are telling it like they see it, because they are afraid. Afraid of social progress which inevitably shifts society more tolerant.

    I watched the video of Milo on Channel 4 posted here, and watching him talking over Cathy Newman reminded me of when someone was drowned out at one of his sermons with choruses of "CUCK! CUCK! CUCK!" when that guy dared raise his voice. They're not averse to shouting down opposing viewpoints on their own turf, like the social justice warriors on college campuses they despise.

    I'm disappointed Cathy didn't delve further into the piece Milo wrote on how women should behave on "the men's Internet", and compare it against the piece he wrote a few years ago calling for trolls to be banned from the Internet. Then again, the site he wrote it for - which he also ran - had to be sold off because he couldn't keep it in the black.

    IMHO, the movement is a more presentable form of the "neo-reactionaries" that grabbed a few headlines a year or so ago thanks to that rapey PUA and his "tribal meetings".


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,934 ✭✭✭20Cent


    Brian? wrote: »
    I wonder if these alt right talking heads all go to a class that teaches them a particular interview style. Milo, Ann Coulter, Katie Hopkins etc. all have the exact same delivery in interviews. They talk about what the want to talk about, regardless of the questions asked. They interrupt and behave condescendingly towards the interviewer. For me, whatever intelligent points are contained in their word salad gets lost in delivery.

    there seems to be this belief that the alt right is a reaction to something on the left. I am not aware of a single hate monger on the left that can be compared to these people. They profess to be "telling it like it is", but they aren't. They are pouring a potent mixture of half truths and anti immigration rhetoric into the conversation. They are telling it like they see it, because they are afraid. Afraid of social progress which inevitably shifts society more tolerant.

    There is definitely similarities between them. Wouldn't be surprised if there was some training involved. The combative approach, smug rolling eyes, little digs to wind up the other person etc. Also would question their sincerity it comes across as an act to me like the evil stepsister in a pantomime.
    If you see Milo from even a few years ago he has changed a lot. Now he is like a parody of himself, Sacha Baron Cohen's Bruno.
    They have found a disenfranchised vulnerable group they can peddle their product to and are doing it with gusto.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,161 ✭✭✭Amazingfun


    Strange, I posted earlier that Milo is both Jewish and Gay, stating himself quite clearly that he is NOT #altright, but it seems to have been deleted. Curious that.


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Amazingfun wrote: »
    Strange, I posted earlier that Milo is both Jewish and Gay, stating himself quite clearly that he is NOT #altright, but it seems to have been deleted. Curious that.

    As is the removal of my comment that young white western males are hardly a disenfranchised vulnerable group.


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Amazingfun wrote: »
    Strange, I posted earlier that Milo is both Jewish and Gay, stating himself quite clearly that he is NOT #altright, but it seems to have been deleted. Curious that.

    Keep in mind he said on Nov 8th that, while the term was loose and broad, he was associated with the trolling mischievous wing of the alt-right. And the 'merely a reporter' line he's rolling out now is at odds with someone who's repeatedly referenced his 'followers' and 'winning over campuses' on his lecture/trolling tour.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,161 ✭✭✭Amazingfun


    So what? He is a clever self promoter is all.
    Funny how there is so much sudden interest/outrage at the altright, see there's even a "protest" on in Washington right now, lol, quite bizarre really. I mean, it's just a bunch of girlfriend-less online trolls, according to the experts on this thread--what are they so afraid of ;-)


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Amazingfun wrote: »
    So what? He is a clever self promoter is all.
    Funny how there is so much sudden interest/outrage at the altright, see there's even a "protest" on in Washington right now, lol, quite bizarre really. I mean, it's just a bunch of girlfriend-less online trolls, according to the experts on this thread--what are they so afraid of ;-)

    It's about Katie Hopkins level importance; as in not at all, but great media fodder. At least George Galloway tries to act as a public representative in between talking bollocks. Notice boxes will be notice boxes.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    But again does nobody see the double standard here? Extremist SJWs who behave just as badly as people like Milo (and who in my view are responsible for creating his brand of reactionism) don't get dissected and called out in this manner, not in mainstream discourse. The Alt-Right is socially unacceptable, the SJW left is not. That's a major, major difference which in my view makes all the difference in terms of which is the more dangerous movement.


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    But again does nobody see the double standard here? Extremist SJWs who behave just as badly as people like Milo (and who in my view are responsible for creating his brand of reactionism) don't get dissected and called out in this manner, not in mainstream discourse. The Alt-Right is socially unacceptable, the SJW left is not. That's a major, major difference which in my view makes all the difference in terms of which is the more dangerous movement.

    I'm at a loss as to who and where this extremist social justice activity presents itself. I'm well aware of the claims, but the substance is another thing.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 617 ✭✭✭Ferrari3600


    SJW cucks PUA blah blah

    Beta males blah blah

    Cuckservatives, they are worse than the NAZI STALINISTS blah blah


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,863 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    SJW cucks PUA blah blah

    Beta males blah blah

    Cuckservatives, they are worse than the NAZI STALINISTS blah blah

    Less of this. Please read the charter before posting again.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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  • Registered Users Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    alastair wrote: »
    I'm at a loss as to who and where this extremist social justice activity presents itself. I'm well aware of the claims, but the substance is another thing.

    How about the emergence of articles in mainstream outlets such as the Irish Times, Examiner, Journal etc which suggest that all men should feel responsible for the minority of men who behave badly? How about the fact that anyone with even the slightest anti-immigration views is routinely labelled a racist, without question, and this is seen as a reasonable inference? How about the fact, as others have suggested here, that you couldn't be anti-gay marriage during the last referendum without being utterly reviled for it by the SJW left? And most dangerously at all, how about the fact that the SJW left engages in the creation of online hate mobs, just like the alt right, but are almost never banned or censored for this, unlike the alt right?

    I'm fairly far left myself, I'm just anti-regressive politics regardless of who it comes from. But it does seem to me that appalling behaviour from my own side of the political aisle is tolerated to a far greater extent in mainstream society and media compared with appalling behaviour from those on the far right.


This discussion has been closed.
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