African American attitudes

oscarBravo

realitykeeper wrote: »

I am not convinced there is endemic racism in American policing.

Is that because you've carefully studied a great deal of evidence, weighed up both sides of the argument and arrived at your conclusion? Or is this just a gut feeling on your part?

Help!!!!

vetinari wrote: »

I feel any discussion about incarceration rates should start with a simple question.
Do you think black people are different?
If say people from Michigan had an incarceration rate 6 times higher than the national average, people would be questioning the system not what people in Michigan need to do differently.

Black and hispanic neighborhoods have had essentially had a police invasion under the pretext of a drug war.
I have to say as a white middle class guy who moved to Boston 10 years ago, I've never lived in a police occupied area.
Some minorities live in areas where they'll encounter police every week. I've probably talked directly to a police officer3 times in 10 years here.

I shudder to think how many run ins with the law I'd have if every time I was coming home after a night out, I was stopped and questioned by a police officer. When people talk about systemic racism, it manifests itself as all races using drugs in equal measures but only some of them getting locked up for it.

Do you not think the police are there to try to prevent black on black murders? So obviously there would be more stop & search in these neighbourhoods. If there were middle class white areas where there was loads of white on white murders then the police would be there.
Rather than see the police being there to try to take guns/drugs out of their neighbourhoods they prefer to play the victim

oscarBravo

Help!!!! wrote: »

Do you not think the police are there to try to prevent black on black murders? So obviously there would be more stop & search in these neighbourhoods.

That's not policing; it's harassment.

Rather than see the police being there to try to take guns/drugs out of their neighbourhoods they prefer to play the victim

Nice whitesplaining. If only those ignorant blacks would stop complaining about constant harassment and understand that it's for their own good.

Help!!!!

oscarBravo wrote: »

That's not policing; it's harassment. Nice whitesplaining. If only those ignorant blacks would stop complaining about constant harassment and understand that it's for their own good.

Really? So you think it would be better if the police didn't go into these neighbourhoods & let them just get on with it?
If the police were to do that it wouldn't take long for the masses to come out shouting about it.
So whats your solution to the problem then?

oscarBravo

Help!!!! wrote: »

Really? So you think it would be better if the police didn't go into these neighbourhoods & let them just get on with it?

No, I don't think that. What's more, I neither said nor implied it.

So whats your solution to the problem then?

Get rid of the endemic racism that pervades the entire justice system, and start the long, slow process of rebuilding trust between black communities and police.

I really, highly recommend reading Ghettoside, it's an eye-opening read.

Help!!!!

oscarBravo wrote: »

No, I don't think that. What's more, I neither said nor implied it. Get rid of the endemic racism that pervades the entire justice system, and start the long, slow process of rebuilding trust between black communities and police.

I really, highly recommend reading Ghettoside, it's an eye-opening read.

Never said you implied anything but do you not see if there are areas where there is a lot of crime then there will be a lot of police
Why is it when the black community protest it always turns into riots which turns into looting stores

The majority of black people are good, the same as police

We need more of this though

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_59kJXOLbKg

& this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9hMNddj4bM

vetinari

I think the police should do their job and respond to violent crime. Proactively attempting to stop and search as many black people as possible for contraband is discrimination.

At what point would some people here think the system has a problem? The US has the largest prison population in the world.

Palmach

alastair wrote: »

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/five-myths-about-incarceration/2011/06/13/AGfIWvYH_story.html

This piece seems to say that Judges and Police are racist so that is why Blacks and Coloured people are more likely to be incarcerated. The authors ignore the amount of fatherless households and the culture within groupings such as an antipathy towards authority, no real track record of members of the community going to college. Racism is an easy card to play. Too easy.

Lt Dan

Nabber wrote: »

Where is this happening?
I thought Africa was still business as usual?

Some Nations are getting on with it. Places like Ghana are doing okay. Hell, Rwanda of all places are trying to get their s**t together. Rome was not built in a day etc, and for many , democracy and Independence only really came in the 1990's

AbusesToilets

vetinari wrote: »

I think the police should do their job and respond to violent crime. Proactively attempting to stop and search as many black people as possible for contraband is discrimination.

At what point would some people here think the system has a problem? The US has the largest prison population in the world.

That is largely down to the War on Drugs, which from historical accounts was deliberately targeted at the Black community.

That being said, Blacks are responsible for a disproportionate percentage of the annual murders, most of them being against other Black people. Something like 18% of the population accounting for 52% of the total murders annually.

There is undoubtedly reform needed in the justice system, but if your community generates most of the crime, it's logical that your community will be more policed. Real change has to come through the ballot box, vote in candidates who represent the Black community and go from there.

Help!!!!

vetinari wrote: »

I think the police should do their job and respond to violent crime. Proactively attempting to stop and search as many black people as possible for contraband is discrimination.

At what point would some people here think the system has a problem? The US has the largest prison population in the world.

The reason so many black people are being stopped & searched is because the problem is in their neighbourhoods, I don't understand how people cant see that. If they pull over 50 black people & find 2 guns, theres 2 less guns on the street. As someone who has been stopped & searched by police quite a few times, I have never had a problem with it. I understand their jobs are hard enough. It takes 5mins of your life unless you give them problems.
If you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear

Overheal

Help!!!! wrote: »

If you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear

So you are ok with being wiretapped, having your webcamera turn on without any notification, having your location monitored, your text messages sifted through, and revealing your real name as your username instead of using a pseudonym? Having a federal agency know your browsing habits, what food you buy, where you buy gas, when you're at home and when you're not? If you have nothing to hide. Screw the 4th amendment right?

The problem is in their neighborhoods because t has been designed that way. Black neighborhoods weren't full of guns when Nixon decided to wage a war on drugs. His administration knew what they were doing.

"The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people," former Nixon domestic policy chief John Ehrlichman told Harper's writer Dan Baum for the April cover story published Tuesday.

"You understand what I'm saying? We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin. And then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities," Ehrlichman said. "We could arrest their leaders. raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did."

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2016/03/23/politics/john-ehrlichman-richard-nixon-drug-war-blacks-hippie/index.html?client=safari

Help!!!!

Overheal wrote: »

So you are ok with being wiretapped, having your webcamera turn on without any notification, having your location monitored, your text messages sifted through, and revealing your real name as your username instead of using a pseudonym? Having a federal agency know your browsing habits, what food you buy, where you buy gas, when you're at home and when you're not? If you have nothing to hide. Screw the 4th amendment right?

The problem is in their neighborhoods because t has been designed that way. Black neighborhoods weren't full of guns when Nixon decided to wage a war on drugs. His administration knew what they were doing.

Couldn't care less, if someone wants to waste their time checking what I'm doing then fire ahead.
Ok so lets get rid of all the surveillance & lets say a terrorist bomb goes off killing members of your family are you going to say too bad but at least we have the 4th amendment?
Yes we all know about Nixon etc but that was the 70s & we have had a black president for the last 8 years. Some people prefer to act like victims so they don't have to solve their own problems

Overheal

Help!!!! wrote: »

Couldn't care less, if someone wants to waste their time checking what I'm doing then fire ahead.
Ok so lets get rid of all the surveillance & lets say a terrorist bomb goes off killing members of your family are you going to say too bad but at least we have the 4th amendment?
Yes we all know about Nixon etc but that was the 70s & we have had a black president for the last 8 years. Some people prefer to act like victims so they don't have to solve their own problems

If the fear of a small bomb is what kills freedom it is a sad future. Freedom and safety aren't the same thing. Freedom carries risks. If you want to feel safe and snug as a subject of an Orwellian state for the slim chance someone might do you harm you can go right ahead and send all your passwords to the NSA, give the PD a copy of your car and house keys. But no don't impose that psychopathy on the rest of us.

It's not fair or logical to stop and frisk black neighborhoods when whites carry the same amount of drugs and commit the same kind of crimes. I have yet to see mandatory psychiatric screening for all young white males even though they are the most at risk to commit violent mass shootings.

oscarBravo

Help!!!! wrote: »

Some people prefer to act like victims so they don't have to solve their own problems

And some people are so convinced that there must be something inherently wrong with black people that there's nothing that could possibly convince them that there is an endemic racism problem in the American justice system.

Help!!!!

oscarBravo wrote: »

And some people are so convinced that there must be something inherently wrong with black people that there's nothing that could possibly convince them that there is an endemic racism problem in the American justice system.

No doubt there are some racists in the American justice system but you cant say all are racist. All I'm saying is that the black community have to take some responsibility for the problems in their neighbourhoods. Then they can try to move forward.

Help!!!!

Overheal wrote: »

.

It's not fair or logical to stop and frisk black neighborhoods when whites carry the same amount of drugs and commit the same kind of crimes. I have yet to see mandatory psychiatric screening for all young white males even though they are the most at risk to commit violent mass shootings.

Yes & if the whites were shooting & killing each other I would expect there to be a huge police presence in their neighbourhoods also.

Overheal

Help!!!! wrote: »

Yes & if the whites were shooting & killing each other I would expect there to be a huge police presence in their neighbourhoods also.

They do...

http://usuncut.com/black-lives-matter/black-on-black-crime/



http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2016-09-29/race-and-homicide-in-america-by-the-numbers

oscarBravo

Help!!!! wrote: »

No doubt there are some racists in the American justice system but you cant say all are racist.

I guess it's a good thing I didn't say that, then.

All I'm saying is that the black community have to take some responsibility for the problems in their neighbourhoods. Then they can try to move forward.

So there should be no attempt to address the endemic racism in society until the victims of that racism make the first move?

That's charitable of you.

FA Hayek

Overheal wrote: »

They do...

http://usuncut.com/black-lives-matter/black-on-black-crime/



http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2016-09-29/race-and-homicide-in-america-by-the-numbers

Well given that whites make up about, what 75% of the population and blacks make up about 12% of the population, it is safe to say or rather ask why so many black people are being killed by other blacks.

RDM_83 again

Overheal wrote: »

Help!!!! wrote: »

It's not fair or logical to stop and frisk black neighborhoods when whites carry the same amount of drugs and commit the same kind of crimes. I have yet to see mandatory psychiatric screening for all young white males even though they are the most at risk to commit violent mass shootings.

That's actually a racist assumption your making there that's not been backed up by evidence, white men aren't the most common per capita mass killers.
According to one way of looking at it black men are https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/may/23/mass-shootings-tracker-analysis-us-gun-control-reddit

According to other recording methods whites are also well down the list compared to populationhttps://www.statista.com/statistics/476456/mass-shootings-in-the-us-by-shooter-s-race/

Interesting how some racist myths are ok to perpetuate

Help!!!!

RDM_83 again wrote: »

Overheal wrote: »

That's actually a racist assumption your making there that's not been backed up by evidence, white men aren't the most common per capita mass killers.
According to one way of looking at it black men are https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/may/23/mass-shootings-tracker-analysis-us-gun-control-reddit

According to other recording methods whites are also well down the list compared to populationhttps://www.statista.com/statistics/476456/mass-shootings-in-the-us-by-shooter-s-race/

Interesting how some racist myths are ok to perpetuate

I didn't say that, it was part of another post

Help!!!!

oscarBravo wrote: »

I guess it's a good thing I didn't say that, then. So there should be no attempt to address the endemic racism in society until the victims of that racism make the first move?

That's charitable of you.

No I didn't say it shouldn't be addressed until they make the first move. There was a black president in power for the last 8 years & what has he done about it? Maybe he didn't think it was such a big problem

oscarBravo

Help!!!! wrote: »

No I didn't say it shouldn't be addressed until they make the first move.

Actually, you did. There was a distinct sequence implied by the fact that your second sentence started with "Then".

There was a black president in power for the last 8 years & what has he done about it?

You think endemic racism is controlled by a switch in the Oval Office?

Maybe he didn't think it was such a big problem

Maybe you should shake off your preconceptions.

Help!!!!

oscarBravo wrote: »

Actually, you did. There was a distinct sequence implied by the fact that your second sentence started with "Then". You think endemic racism is controlled by a switch in the Oval Office? Maybe you should shake off your preconceptions.

So you think that the black community should have to do nothing, just carry on seeing their young people killed. There are no white people forcing a black person to kill another black person.
You talk about endemic racism in the judiciary system but I'm sure there's plenty of black judges giving the same sentences to black people as a white judge would.
Just coz you've read a book on the subject doesn't mean you or the author are experts

RDM_83 again

Sorry don't know how that happened I was addressing overheals comment

Help!!!!

RDM_83 again wrote: »

Sorry don't know how that happened I was addressing overheals comment

No probs, but your comment was correct though

Overheal

RDM_83 again wrote: »

Sorry don't know how that happened I was addressing overheals comment

Someone used quote tags inappropriately. It's the vbulletin equivalent of a reply-allpocalypse.

oscarBravo

Help!!!! wrote: »

So you think that the black community should have to do nothing, just carry on seeing their young people killed.

Nope. We'll have a much more intelligent conversation if you address what I say instead of what you think I mean.

There are no white people forcing a black person to kill another black person.

There's nobody forcing police officers to kill unarmed black people either, but it keeps happening.

You talk about endemic racism in the judiciary system but I'm sure there's plenty of black judges giving the same sentences to black people as a white judge would.

You're sure of that, are you? Are you sure of it because it fits in with your preconceived ideas, or because you've researched the topic thoroughly and arrived at a reasoned conclusion?

Just coz you've read a book on the subject doesn't mean you or the author are experts

I don't claim to be an expert (the author most certainly is). On the other hand, I'm not the one arriving at conclusions without bothering to acquaint myself with the facts first.

RDM_83 again

Overheal wrote: »

RDM_83 again wrote: »

Sorry don't know how that happened I was addressing overheals comment

Someone used quote tags inappropriately. It's the vbulletin equivalent of a reply-allpocalypse.

Avoid the point that you repeat anti-factual racist stereotypes