African American attitudes

AnGaelach

InTheTrees wrote: »

There's no evidence of that at all.

http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2016-09-29/race-and-homicide-in-america-by-the-numbers

Overall, killings of blacks by whites and whites by blacks accounted for about 12 percent of the roughly 6,000 homicides last year in which police had information about the race of both victim and killer – a slight increase from around 11 percent in 2014. About 15.8 percent of white victims were killed by blacks last year, and 8.6 percent of black victims were killed by whites.

Similarly, there was around 6000 Blacks killed in 2015 iirc but only 300 were by cops. That's what, 5%?

AnGaelach

InTheTrees wrote: »

Why would it? You're still unable to verbalize how the FBI report is false?

You know the FBI and Justice Department are two separate entities?

InTheTrees wrote: »

You just think its wrong because..why? Its all an invention?

Because they said they don't have any proof of it and were relying on first hand accounts... Did you even read the parts I quoted from that document?

Here, I'll just quote the part of it again.

Although available data enables an assessment of the disparate impact of many FPD practices, many other practices cannot be assessed statistically because of FPD’s inadequate data collection. FPD does not reliably collect or track data regarding pedestrian stops, or FPD officers’ conduct during those stops. Given this lack of data, we are unable to determine whether African Americans are disproportionately the subjects of pedestrian stops, or the rate of searches, arrests, or other post-pedestrian stop outcomes.

FA Hayek

The cities and places where most of this black on black crime occurs are also the areas that have been ruled for decades by Democratic majorities. Think of places like Baltimore and Chicago. Therein lies the issue. If we take the claim that there is systemic racism in the justice system (it may be a part of the issue not by no means the whole issue at heart) then are we saying that the Democrats are systemically racist as well?

FA Hayek

The left leaning think tank the Brookings Institute have come up with 3 steps for all American teenagers in avoiding poverty and join the middle class.

They are

1. Graduating from high school.

2. Waiting to get married until after 21 and do not have children till after being married.

3. Having a full-time job.

Unfortunately, for the African American community, they fair miserably in regards the above steps.
With this debate, all we hear is cops are bad, black people are victims, yada yada etc..
We rarely hear of the above steps in trying to get black communities out of poverty and into the middle class.

Im of the opinion that it suits many in the Democratic party fine to have the black community there as poor and suffering, as if the black community did enter average american wealth and class levels, they will no longer vote 90/10 in favour of the democrats, they would break more towards 60/40 or even 50/50. Again, look at Irish Americans. Traditionally very Democrat leaning but now very much Republican.

Look at the Hispanic population, they now number more then the African American population and are growing. They voted 70/30 for the Democrats, even after Trump said he would deport millions of Mexicans.... The Latino population are also richer and better educated in general then the African American population already, even though they are generally a newish demographic in terms of its size. How did they achieve this? Well the follow the above steps more successfully then the African Americans.

InTheTrees

blueskys wrote: »

I happened to live in the states for a few years. From what i found
a lot of black people are also quite poor and live in poorer areas with
not a lot of resources. Many families get by just on food stamps from which i recall was a pittance.I actually got on really well with the ones i got to know and worked/socialised with, really nice people as a whole.
A lot of police officers i met ( and i socially got to know a fair share) are downright racist, not just to blacks but to latinos etc.. It's like they can't separate the poverty issues from race. Many white people are also casually
racist to an extent that shocked me. America is a great country but it is really divided both racially and financially. Most people, like most people everywhere of any colour, just want to get on but if you are born poor over there unless you are lucky it is very hard to 'make it ' in any sense of the word. Even a lot of the rich white people i knew were up to their assess in debt.

I agree. Twenty years here and you can see its deep and ingrained.

InTheTrees

FA Hayek wrote: »

They are
1. Graduating from high school.
2. Waiting to get married until after 21 and do not have children till after being married.
3. Having a full-time job.
Unfortunately, for the African American community, they fair miserably in regards the above steps.

But realistically why do they fair badly? And how then do you get them to do better?

FA Hayek

InTheTrees wrote: »

But realistically why do they fair badly? And how then do you get them to do better?

Well the government have to take a lot of blame I think, especially in the way welfare programs create poverty traps. You also have to look at the Democrats and their beholding nature to the Teaching unions.

African Americans should stop voting Democrat in my opinion.

InTheTrees

FA Hayek wrote: »

W
African Americans should stop voting Democrat in my opinion.

How do you think the republicans will help?

FA Hayek

InTheTrees wrote: »

How do you think the republicans will help?

Well their votes will not be taken for granted anymore for starters. Republicans are very much for things like charter schools and school voucher programs which will give African American parents a choice in where to send their kids to school.

This would help in getting more of them a high school diploma. Step 1 in the 3 step process. And as old fashioned as it sounds, they could, I repeat, could help in step two, as people now realise the fact that 72% of African American babies are born into unwed households, the vast vast majority of them to single mothers, does not help African Americans escape poverty.

FatherTed

FA Hayek wrote: »

Well their votes will not be taken for granted anymore for starters. Republicans are very much for things like charter schools and school voucher programs which will give African American parents a choice in where to send their kids to school.

This would help in getting more of them a high school diploma. Step 1 in the 3 step process. And as old fashioned as it sounds, they could, I repeat, could help in step two, as people now realise the fact that 72% of African American babies are born into unwed households, the vast vast majority of them to single mothers, does not help African Americans escape poverty.

What are they going to do about the racial disparities at every phase of the justice system?

FA Hayek

FatherTed wrote: »

What are they going to do about the racial disparities at every phase of the justice system?

You need to be more specific.

InTheTrees

FA Hayek wrote: »

You need to be more specific.

He's talking about the deep rooted racism in american society.

Brian?

FA Hayek wrote: »

Well their votes will not be taken for granted anymore for starters. Republicans are very much for things like charter schools and school voucher programs which will give African American parents a choice in where to send their kids to school.

This would help in getting more of them a high school diploma. Step 1 in the 3 step process. And as old fashioned as it sounds, they could, I repeat, could help in step two, as people now realise the fact that 72% of African American babies are born into unwed households, the vast vast majority of them to single mothers, does not help African Americans escape poverty.

Charter schools are absolutely no use to the African American communities in poverty. No one builds a charter school in the ghetto.

Even with a voucher program the choice is going to mininmal for these communities. They simply haven't the means to travel.

The kicker is that the children of better educated more affluent people will no longer share a space with these communities and the funding for public schools will be reduced. So the problem will actually be compounded by vouchers and charter schools.

That's without getting into the dodgy ethos behind some charter schools.

Overheal

Brian? wrote: »

Charter schools are absolutely no use to the African American communities in poverty. No one builds a charter school in the ghetto.

Even with a voucher program the choice is going to mininmal for these communities. They simply haven't the means to travel.

The kicker is that the children of better educated more affluent people will no longer share a space with these communities and the funding for public schools will be reduced. So the problem will actually be compounded by vouchers and charter schools.

That's without getting into the dodgy ethos behind some charter schools.

And the teachers... inspiring minority students to be great

http://lawnewz.com/video/white-teacher-calls-students-a-bunch-of-broke-n-rs-who-will-get-shot/

InTheTrees

Today trump appointed Jeff sessions as the next Attorney General.
Ten years ago the Republicans denied Sessions a federal judgeship because of his racist views.

K-9

Help!!!! wrote: »

1. Cops killed nearly twice as many whites as blacks in 2015
2. More whites and Hispanics die from police homicides than blacks.
3. The Post's data does show that unarmed black men are more likely to die by the gun of a cop than an unarmed white man...but this does not tell the whole story
4. Black and Hispanic police officers are more likely to fire a gun at blacks than white officers
5. Blacks are more likely to kill cops than be killed by cops.

for the full read

http://www.dailywire.com/news/7264/5-statistics-you-need-know-about-cops-killing-aaron-bandler#

But you are after telling us repeatedly that African Americans make up only 12% of the population so points 1 and 2 are pretty irrelevant?

FA Hayek

Brian? wrote: »

Charter schools are absolutely no use to the African American communities in poverty. No one builds a charter school in the ghetto.

Em, the whole idea of charter schools stem from the fact that public schools have failed the African American community among others. They are absolutely vital to many African American communities, many of which exist in 'the ghettos'. Nationally across the U.S. they have a higher percentage of low incomes and minorities. I guess they must all be in Beverly Hills :roll eyes:


Support for charter schools in low income communities, is absolutely massive.

A new national survey of parents with school-age children released today shows that 78 percent of parents support having a charter public school open in their neighborhood, with 73 percent in support of more charter schools opening nationwide. Support is even greater among low-income parents, with 88 percent of low-income parents in favor of having a charter school in their community, and 84 percent in support of more charter schools nationally.

http://www.publiccharters.org/press/national-survey-shows-78-parents-support-charter-schools-opening-neighborhood/

Even with a voucher program the choice is going to mininmal for these communities. They simply haven't the means to travel.

What? There is an extensive school bus system in the US, much better funded then similar in Ireland. You are going to have to be more specific here.

The kicker is that the children of better educated more affluent people will no longer share a space with these communities and the funding for public schools will be reduced. So the problem will actually be compounded by vouchers and charter schools.

The issue not school segregation. That already exists somewhat due to school district maps and boundaries. You are not going to have middle class kids in inner city public schools in the likes of Chicago, St Louis or Baltimore, because they don't live there. The people who live there as I have shown are disgusted with their local public school so want a choice and charter schools have 84% support among local income parents.

However, there is a push for a voucher system whereby students in poor get a choice to go to schools in other more wealthy districts and even get their education funded by means of private schools.

That's without getting into the dodgy ethos behind some charter schools.

Of, course that is the nub of the issue. The objections are not really about, do they work or are they a waste of public money. The objection is idealogical because the state is god and a profit motive is satan. Standard left wing claptrap.

Charter schools work and people in their nice middle class homes can object all you want, but if your a parent in a disadvantaged area who want more choice then your local public school, a charter school, which is more accountable for its results may offer that lifeline to a child who can break multi generational poverty.

As I said, the Democrats I believe do not want to reform inner city public schools because they want to keep the black vote. Obama has done nothing for these people, yet those evil Republicans under GW Bush passed the 'No child left behind' act in 2001 in a effort to afford parents a choice in education.


http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2013-06-25/stanford-university-study-says-charter-schools-improved

Charter school students are making larger gains in reading than their peers in traditional classrooms while performing on par in math, according to a study of 1.5 million U.S. children.
The average student at a charter -- a privately run public school -- learned eight more days of reading a year than a pupil in a regular school, according to the Stanford University study. In both subjects, poor students, black children and those who speak English as a second language fared better in charters.

FA Hayek

InTheTrees wrote: »

He's talking about the deep rooted racism in american society.

Yes, I know what he is talking about, but I want actual specifics, facts, etc..

764dak

http://www.dailywire.com/news/7264/5-statistics-you-need-know-about-cops-killing-aaron-bandler
1. Cops killed nearly twice as many whites as blacks in 2015.
2. More whites and Hispanics die from police homicides than blacks.
3. The Post's data does show that unarmed black men are more likely to die by the gun of a cop than an unarmed white man...but this does not tell the whole story.
4. Black and Hispanic police officers are more likely to fire a gun at blacks than white officers.
5. Blacks are more likely to kill cops than be killed by cops.

Brian?

FA Hayek wrote: »

Em, the whole idea of charter schools stem from the fact that public schools have failed the African American community among others. They are absolutely vital to many African American communities, many of which exist in 'the ghettos'. Nationally across the U.S. they have a higher percentage of low incomes and minorities. I guess they must all be in Beverly Hills :roll eyes:

Public schools haven't failed the population IMO, it's the other way around. Chronic underfunding has crippled public schools.

Support for charter schools in low income communities, is absolutely massive.

You don't think that's a reaction to the horrible state of public schools, caused by underfunding?

http://www.publiccharters.org/press/national-survey-shows-78-parents-support-charter-schools-opening-neighborhood/



What? There is an extensive school bus system in the US, much better funded then similar in Ireland. You are going to have to be more specific here.

Yes, public school buses.

The issue not school segregation. That already exists somewhat due to school district maps and boundaries. You are not going to have middle class kids in inner city public schools in the likes of Chicago, St Louis or Baltimore, because they don't live there. The people who live there as I have shown are disgusted with their local public school so want a choice and charter schools have 84% support among local income parents.

However, there is a push for a voucher system whereby students in poor get a choice to go to schools in other more wealthy districts and even get their education funded by means of private schools.



Of, course that is the nub of the issue. The objections are not really about, do they work or are they a waste of public money. The objection is idealogical because the state is god and a profit motive is satan. Standard left wing claptrap.

Nonsense. The ethos I was speaking of was religious education in charter schools. Charter schools in the south teaching creationism as an alternative to evolution.

Charter schools work and people in their nice middle class homes can object all you want, but if your a parent in a disadvantaged area who want more choice then your local public school, a charter school, which is more accountable for its results may offer that lifeline to a child who can break multi generational poverty.

As I said, the Democrats I believe do not want to reform inner city public schools because they want to keep the black vote. Obama has done nothing for these people, yet those evil Republicans under GW Bush passed the 'No child left behind' act in 2001 in a effort to afford parents a choice in education.


http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2013-06-25/stanford-university-study-says-charter-schools-improved

Charter schools currently work better than public schools because of chronic underfunding. It's been an ideological push from the GOP since the 70s to gut public education and replace it with private schools.

So they created the problem first by busting teachers unions and freezing funding for schools. Then instead of fixing the problem they created by paying teachers a living wage and investing in the classroom, they propose charter schools and vouchers. They cry out for more choice in education because the public system is broken, even though they intentionally broke it and have the means to fix it.

alastair

764dak wrote: »

http://www.dailywire.com/news/7264/5-statistics-you-need-know-about-cops-killing-aaron-bandler
1. Cops killed nearly twice as many whites as blacks in 2015.
2. More whites and Hispanics die from police homicides than blacks.
3. The Post's data does show that unarmed black men are more likely to die by the gun of a cop than an unarmed white man...but this does not tell the whole story.
4. Black and Hispanic police officers are more likely to fire a gun at blacks than white officers.
5. Blacks are more likely to kill cops than be killed by cops.

1. There are far more whites than blacks in the US, so it's not a surprise that more whites are killed - what's surprising is that it's as high a ratio as it is.

2. See above.

3. what's the whole story then?

4. So - still a policing problem to be addressed

5. Far more black citizens than police. You would expect this to be the case. Equally 'whites' are far more likely to kill cops than be killed by cops.

764dak

alastair wrote: »

764dak wrote: »

http://www.dailywire.com/news/7264/5-statistics-you-need-know-about-cops-killing-aaron-bandler
1. Cops killed nearly twice as many whites as blacks in 2015.
2. More whites and Hispanics die from police homicides than blacks.
3. The Post's data does show that unarmed black men are more likely to die by the gun of a cop than an unarmed white man...but this does not tell the whole story.
4. Black and Hispanic police officers are more likely to fire a gun at blacks than white officers.
5. Blacks are more likely to kill cops than be killed by cops.

1. There are far more whites than blacks in the US, so it's not a surprise that more whites are killed - what's surprising is that it's as high a ratio as it is.

2. See above.

3. what's the whole story then?

4. So - still a policing problem to be addressed

5. Far more black citizens than police. You would expect this to be the case. Equally 'whites' are far more likely to kill cops than be killed by cops.

Read the rest of the story on that webpage.

alastair

764dak wrote: »

Read the rest of the story on that webpage.

I've read it - it doesn't change any of the above facts.

764dak

K-9 wrote: »

Help!!!! wrote: »

1. Cops killed nearly twice as many whites as blacks in 2015
2. More whites and Hispanics die from police homicides than blacks.
3. The Post's data does show that unarmed black men are more likely to die by the gun of a cop than an unarmed white man...but this does not tell the whole story
4. Black and Hispanic police officers are more likely to fire a gun at blacks than white officers
5. Blacks are more likely to kill cops than be killed by cops.

for the full read

http://www.dailywire.com/news/7264/5-statistics-you-need-know-about-cops-killing-aaron-bandler#

But you are after telling us repeatedly that African Americans make up only 12% of the population so points 1 and 2 are pretty irrelevant?

Most people believe that cops don't kill white Americans because it's not shown in the media.

oscarBravo

764dak wrote: »

Most people believe that cops don't kill white Americans because it's not shown in the media.

I find it hard to believe that anyone believes that, let alone "most people".

764dak

oscarBravo wrote: »

764dak wrote: »

Most people believe that cops don't kill white Americans because it's not shown in the media.

I find it hard to believe that anyone believes that, let alone "most people".

I should have said unarmed white Americans. You should go on most social media or comments on news stories of police incidents. If someone hints that it's not racially motivated a bunch of people gang up on that person to say that they have never seen or heard of an unarmed white person being gunned down.

oscarBravo

764dak wrote: »

I should have said unarmed white Americans. You should go on most social media or comments on news stories of police incidents. If someone hints that it's not racially motivated a bunch of people gang up on that person to say that they have never seen or heard of an unarmed white person being gunned down.

I've never seen it, and I still don't buy it. I certainly don't buy that it's "most people".

764dak

oscarBravo wrote: »

764dak wrote: »

I should have said unarmed white Americans. You should go on most social media or comments on news stories of police incidents. If someone hints that it's not racially motivated a bunch of people gang up on that person to say that they have never seen or heard of an unarmed white person being gunned down.

I've never seen it, and I still don't buy it. I certainly don't buy that it's "most people".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgnEOmrntYs
Look at this video and read the comments. They are people that believe Tommy Hilfiger said racist things on Oprah's show over 20 years ago. It is off-topic but it just shows that people can believe anything.

alastair

764dak wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgnEOmrntYs
Look at this video and read the comments. They are people that believe Tommy Hilfiger said racist things on Oprah's show over 20 years ago. It is off-topic but it just shows that people can believe anything.

It certainly shows that people will post up anything, regardless of it's pertinence.

764dak

You know cops are just targeting people whom they think are more likely to commit crimes. People in poor neighbourhoods.

Female cops dress as prostitutes to nab potential criminals. Cops leave cars with keys on the inside to attract wrongdoers.