Official Conor McGregor thread (part 3) *Updated Warning in 1st Post Re:Boxing match

Subcomandante Marcos

Ush1 wrote: »

More strikes thrown or more strikes landed? I don't know what the numbers are to be honest.

Both.

walshb

Lukker- wrote: »

Boxing teaches terrible defence for MMA. Boxing techniques just aren't effective when you take into account the variety of attacks that can be used. From what I've seen boxers struggle far more than kickboxers/Muay Thai with the transition.

But to suggest boxing fundamentals mean nothing in MMA is still wrong.

Otherwise the best at MMA wouldn't focus a fair bit on getting their boxing/striking in order.

I would think good fundamentals and punch delivery/mechanics would be excellent to have in MMA.

Also, this terrible defense, how does boxing teach this? One area it would teach excellent defense is when your opponent tries to hit you in the head or body with punches. It teaches you excellent footwork and positioning and guard...

Is it the perfect defense against all attacks? No.....no combat discipline really is.

Ush1

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

Diaz got cut, which he always does, and a few flash knock down, Conor nearly got stopped, twice, only saving himself by doing his Sonia O'Sullivan impression.

Conor never looked close to being stopped to me, and even if he was, it was fatigue, not Diazs technical boxing skill.

Lukker-

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

Diaz got cut, which he always does, and a few flash knock down, Conor nearly got stopped, twice, only saving himself by doing his Sonia O'Sullivan impression.

'Flash knock down' - Or your brain shutting off and legs turning to jelly. Diaz nearly got finished 3 times, if Conor wasn't so tentative he could've finished him on the ground at least once, Diaz was out on the way down at least once.

Mellor

DerrickL wrote: »

Diaz boxing fundamentals are far better. McGregor hoofed the lead leg and then threw his combinations.

He can't do that against Floyd

The Diaz brothers' boxing fundamentals
are terrible. The whole "best boxing in MMA" was based on being very durable and throwing pitter patter punches in volume. The result is them walking down opponents and getting a finish out of sheer attrition.
But technically, the fundamentals are dirt from a boxing POV.

Ush1

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

Both.

Interesting considering how both of them looked after the fight.

Go on Tyson :pac:

Lukker-

walshb wrote: »

But to suggest boxing fundamentals mean nothing in MMA is still wrong.

Otherwise the best at MMA wouldn't focus a fair bit on getting their boxing/striking in order.

I would think good fundamentals and punch delivery/mechanics would be excellent to have in MMA.

Also, this terrible defense, how does boxing teach this? One area it would teach excellent defense is when your opponent tries to hit you in the head or body with punches. It teaches you excellent footwork and positioning and guard...

Is it the perfect defense against all attacks? No.....no combat discipline really is.

MMA striking ≠ boxing, even if it's just using hands.

You throw from different parts of the body, a 1 2 in MMA is a good bit different to a 1 2 in boxing.

Having a boxing foundation wouldn't hurt, if you can shake your boxing habits, but I don't really think it's going to help too much either.

Most of the top guys in MMA now have been freestyle fighting the majority of their careers.

Aaron Pico at the weekend, is an excellent boxer, Golden Gloves state champ at his age level, stepped into the octagon against a novice boxer BJJ guy. The BJJ guy tuned him up on the feet and timed him with an uppercut, don't think Pico landed a punch. The fundamentals are just totally different. It's the same with Conor stepping in vs Floyd.

how.gareth

Coach kavanagh will be appearing on "ask me anything" for those of you who'd like to know the mayweather master plan
http://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057756967/1/#post103910327

Mellor

Lukker- wrote: »

Aaron Pico at the weekend, is an excellent boxer,

I'm not sure that "boxing champion" story is all that credible tbh.
He won a golden gloves title sure, but it was when he was as a 12 year old. That doesn't mean he's grew up to be excellent boxer now, especially when he gave it up to wrestle instead. Certainly looked more panic wrestler than comfortable boxer.

There's something questionable when a novice is on the salary payroll 3 years before he debuts.

Lukker-

Mellor wrote: »

I'm not sure that "boxing champion" story is all that credible tbh.
He won a golden gloves title sure, but it was when he was as a 12 year old. That doesn't mean he's grew up to be excellent boxer now, especially when he gave it up to wrestle instead. Certainly looked more panic wrestler than comfortable boxer.

There's something questionable when a novice is on the salary payroll 3 years before he debuts.

He pretty much trained boxing full time alongside his wrestling career though, he just competed in wrestling because he had a better shot, got Olympic trials.

Ush1

Didn't Brendan Schaub get a golden gloves title? His boxing didn't look up to a whole lot.

Gamebred

Ush1 wrote: »

Didn't Brendan Schaub get a golden gloves title? His boxing didn't look up to a whole lot.

Cant box eggs, not clued up on the golden gloves but it could be a case of showing up and winning one fight to be called a golden gloves winner.

Lukker-

Schaub won a state tournament and there is f*ck all record of it so it can't be verified too much.

The national titles were legit, and have winners that range from Floyd Mayweather to Cassius Clay.

Mellor

Lukker- wrote: »

He pretty much trained boxing full time alongside his wrestling career though, he just competed in wrestling because he had a better shot, got Olympic trials.

Where did you see that? In the interview I seen he said he went a different way, into wrestling and pankration after cadet boxing.

I know since being bankrolled by Belator, he's been going to Freddy Roachs gym. But that's a recent thing afaik. Training with Eddie Bravo the last few months too. But doesn't mean he has been training full like like a spartan as they made out.

Sweet Science

You can be good at boxing all you like but if someone can kick you or go for a shoot etc it could all go out the window pretty quick. By that i mean even the idea that it could be coming could throw you off competely

Subcomandante Marcos

jcd5971 wrote: »

I can't remember the exact details of it, but you made a bet with a person on boards to change your username and then never followed through, if I recall correctly it was something to do with pendred could be mistaken though.

Anyway my point was if you wouldn't follow through on a silly bet like that,then not a hope you'd follow through on an actual money bet.

Anyway doesn't matter was meant in. Kinda tounge in cheek manner anyway so just ignore it.

You 100% have the wrong person. That was one of the mods and he changed his name to Cathal Pendreds Fists of Fury for a year after he lost the bet.

Kirby

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

You 100% have the wrong person. That was one of the mods and he changed his name to Cathal Pendreds Fists of Fury for a year after he lost the bet.

Er gamebred admitted he remembered the bet already.

Lukker-

Mellor wrote: »

Where did you see that? In the interview I seen he said he went a different way, into wrestling and pankration after cadet boxing.

I know since being bankrolled by Belator, he's been going to Freddy Roachs gym. But that's a recent thing afaik. Training with Eddie Bravo the last few months too. But doesn't mean he has been training full like like a spartan as they made out.

Can't recall tbh, some vlog that followed him during wrestling comps. Showed him shadowboxing during a warm up for a wrestling tournament and they asked him about it, said he regularly trains boxing but that wrestling is his focus.

He didn't just win state championships in boxing either, he won consecutive national championships in in 2008/2009 and was named most outstanding boxer out of all weight classes for the Golden Gloves Jr tournament.

Mellor

Lukker- wrote: »

The national titles were legit, and have winners that range from Floyd Mayweather to Cassius Clay.

Well, they range from Floyd Mayweather to the 1000s of Joe Bloggs we've never heard of. With weight divisions, and age groups. There's probably 100+ kids becoming national champions every year. Floyd and the likes, didn't quit as kids. Key difference.

I'm not sayin any 12 year old can walk up and win one. I'm just saying it's a leap to assume being old golden gloves winner, makes somebody an excellent boxer as an adult when when they've never competed since then.

It's like being a kids jiu jitsu champion. Need skills to win on the day, but they won't be a black belt unless they put in another 8-12 years.

Lukker- wrote: »

He didn't just win state championships in boxing either, he won consecutive national championships in in 2008/2009 and was named most outstanding boxer out of all weight classes for the Golden Gloves Jr tournament.

To be fair, that's a little more substantial. We didn't see much of it the other night though. If he comes out a d performs in his second fight I'll get on board the hype train.
But for now, I think Coker is blowing smoke up our ass.

Lukker-

Mellor wrote: »

To be fair, that's a little more substantial. We didn't see much of it the other night though. If he comes out a d performs in his second fight I'll get on board the hype train.
But for now, I think Coker is blowing smoke up our ass.

No not at all. In an interview a few years ago before Bellator even signed him, he said that he is bringing something that hasn't been seen in MMA before, the most effective hybrid style, he said MMA has had elite wrestlers before but never elite boxers. (which he considered himself)

My initial point and why I brought up Pico in the first place, was that being an excellent boxer won't exactly translate to MMA striking. I've seen video's of Pico hitting pads and sparring boxing, and he is clearly a very talented boxer IMO, but MMA is long past learning a few sports and 'glueing' them together. Every aspect should be tailored to MMA from the beginning.

wonderfullife

Lukker- wrote: »

No not at all. In an interview a few years ago before Bellator even signed him, he said that he is bringing something that hasn't been seen in MMA before, the most effective hybrid style, he said MMA has had elite wrestlers before but never elite boxers. (which he considered himself)

My initial point and why I brought up Pico in the first place, was that being an excellent boxer won't exactly translate to MMA striking. I've seen video's of Pico hitting pads and sparring boxing, and he is clearly a very talented boxer IMO, but MMA is long past learning a few sports and 'glueing' them together. Every aspect should be tailored to MMA from the beginning.

Agree.

I think Heather Hardy is actually a better case to look at because it went 3 rounds. She was instinctively doing boxing-like things which are not suited to MMA - for example, constantly looking to punch her way out of the clinch instead of framing, also standing around when she rocked her almost waiting for a standing-8-count.

Although, to be fair, it's a little early to judge Pico's skillset because anyone can get caught. For example, if Conor connects early and flattens Floyd, I don't think we can say that MMA striking is well suited to boxing based on one punch or one combination.

Frank Bullitt

wonderfullife wrote: »

That's not true he's been dropped as a 14-year-old in an amateur match I read the article ages ago. I'll try find it. It was yer man's claim to fame, he worked as a car salesman or something. It counts haha.

I just wanted to give you a better clutching-at-straws example

You'll be eating your words when the fight is heading into the 9th round.

Hahaha, would you be happy with the fight going into the 9th if Conor was getting mauled?

wonderfullife

Gintonious wrote: »

Hahaha, would you be happy with the fight going into the 9th if Conor was getting mauled?

If Conor is "getting mauled" then it won't be going into the 9th round. I'd trust John and Owen to throw the towel in long before the 9th if it's not going to plan and I'd trust the ref to stop the action too.

He won't be getting mauled though.

Frank Bullitt

wonderfullife wrote: »

If Conor is "getting mauled" then it won't be going into the 9th round. I'd trust John and Owen to throw the towel in long before the 9th if it's not going to plan and I'd trust the ref to stop the action too.

He won't be getting mauled though.

What makes you be so sure that he won't be getting mauled/comprehensively beaten?

wonderfullife

Gintonious wrote: »

What makes you be so sure that he won't be getting mauled/comprehensively beaten?

This will be the biggest stage imaginable. Probably the biggest fight ever, even including the Rumble in the Jungle. The pressure on fight night will be insane.

Conor handles pressure better than anyone I've ever seen. I think he'll be alert, relaxed and confident in there and out-perform expectations.

Look, I'm clearly not psychic. Floyd might put Conor to sleep with the first punch and if he does I'll very quickly come on here and say I'm clueless.

Frank Bullitt

wonderfullife wrote: »

This will be the biggest stage imaginable. Probably the biggest fight ever, even including the Rumble in the Jungle. The pressure on fight night will be insane.

Conor handles pressure better than anyone I've ever seen. I think he'll be alert, relaxed and confident in there and out-perform expectations.

Look, I'm clearly not psychic. Floyd might put Conor to sleep with the first punch and if he does I'll very quickly come on here and say I'm clueless.

I would say the biggest event, fight wise in the true sense of boxing, its not. I know you will argue with that, but its not the 2 best boxers in the world fighting. Simple as.

Im sure Conor handles pressure, Floyd has been at this level for decades now, so the pressure point is a bit mute.

DerrickL

wonderfullife wrote: »

This will be the biggest stage imaginable. Probably the biggest fight ever, even including the Rumble in the Jungle. The pressure on fight night will be insane.

Conor handles pressure better than anyone I've ever seen. I think he'll be alert, relaxed and confident in there and out-perform expectations.

Look, I'm clearly not psychic. Floyd might put Conor to sleep with the first punch and if he does I'll very quickly come on here and say I'm clueless.

You are in full armchair psychology mode. Let me give it a try.

Floyd will feel minimal pressure. He is boxing someone who isn't an amateur. Boxing someone who Nate Diaz outboxed.

Conor is under immense pressure. Floyd has faster hands, is an infinitly superior boxer and if Conor starts to get toyed with and embarrassed he will crumble. His 'notorious' mantle destroyed.

Imagine biggest financial fight in history and getting embarrassed. That's a lot to take for even the most confident of people.

But don't compare this to the Rumble in the Jungle, that was a clash of two boxers.

wonderfullife

DerrickL wrote: »

You are in full armchair psychology mode. Let me give it a try.

Floyd will feel minimal pressure. He is boxing someone who isn't an amateur. Boxing someone who Nate Diaz outboxed.

Conor is under immense pressure. Floyd has faster hands, is an infinitly superior boxer and if Conor starts to get toyed with and embarrassed he will crumble. His 'notorious' mantle destroyed.

Imagine biggest financial fight in history and getting embarrassed. That's a lot to take for even the most confident of people.

But don't compare this to the Rumble in the Jungle, that was a clash of two boxers.

Wait, so your logic is:

Conor sucks at boxing so Floyd is under no pressure?

Imagine losing to someone "terrible" at boxing. Imagine going in there and not being able to drop or KO someone so terrible.

Conor has nothing to lose and nothing to fear. He doesn't care about being embarrassed, he proved that already.

He took a jump-shot with a basketball in his underwear. He'd have looked a right dope if he missed, it would have been on meme's and gifs but he still took the ball and took the shot.

All the pressure is on Floyd here.

Frank Bullitt

wonderfullife wrote: »

Wait, so your logic is:

Conor sucks at boxing so Floyd is under no pressure?

Imagine losing to someone "terrible" at boxing. Imagine going in there and not being able to drop or KO someone so terrible.

Conor has nothing to lose and nothing to fear. He doesn't care about being embarrassed, he proved that already.

He took a jump-shot with a basketball in his underwear. He'd have looked a right dope if he missed, it would have been on meme's and gifs but he still took the ball and took the shot.

All the pressure is on Floyd here.

Laughable statement.

Look at the calibre he has beaten and under what set of circumstances, how is he under more pressure than Conor in this? Because he landed a shot in his boxers?

You keep mentioning the KO or stoppage, and this seems to imply that you'll see this as a failure if Mayweather doesn't do that to McGregor. Mayweather can beat him however he wants, if McGregor doesn't win, its a fail.