Cork 2017 Route News & Discussion

Pat Dunne

lisasimpson wrote: »

Time to start a Cork 2017 route news thread

roundymac wrote: »

Away with ya Lisa, I'm behind you all the way:D

A new topic for all 2017 ORK scheduled and charter route news and discussion.





Now that wasn't difficult, was it.

JCX BXC

We could have probably modified the heading of the last page but anyway.

So far one new route: 4x weekly Reykjavik.

Idbatterim

will this spur IAG Into a return of the cork to dublin route? they can then sell pre-clearance from dublin and not flying as far backwards, i.e. all the way to manchester or london...

JCX BXC

Idbatterim wrote: »

will this spur IAG Into a return of the cork to dublin route? they can then sell pre-clearance from dublin and not flying as far backwards, i.e. all the way to manchester or london...

Very much doubt it, people just won't opt for it. With the motorway the business cause for that route has become defunct.

munchkin_utd

Carnacalla wrote: »

Very much doubt it, people just won't opt for it. With the motorway the business cause for that route has become defunct.

theres a motorway between Manchester and Heathrow, between Frankfurt and Nurembourg, Nurembourg and Munich, Brussels and Amsterdam etc. and you have flights between them too, but more to allow you to catch an onward connection than to travel between the 2 cities.

Idbatterim

the m50 is now such a joke at peak times, I am either booking to go out early early or after 11am, as anyone who uses it regularly will know. The journey time is so unpredictable, get unlucky and get caught in the frequent pile ups and you could be missing your flight, unless you have left a lot of time...

just checked there, its 2.5 hours from centre of cork to dublin airport, driving, without traffic, according to google maps.

do we know how many are connecting to cork airport via london or manchester, that could be connecting to the same destinations that are served by dublin?

JCX BXC

munchkin_utd wrote: »

theres a motorway between Manchester and Heathrow, between Frankfurt and Nurembourg, Nurembourg and Munich, Brussels and Amsterdam etc. and you have flights between them too, but more to allow you to catch an onward connection than to travel between the 2 cities.

All these cities have much larger distances between them, much larger populations and much much more destinations. These flights can survive as feeders, I can't see an ORK-DUB flight surviving as a feeder.

Why would the IAG ground want to stop people connecting in Heathrow?

Jack1985

Carnacalla wrote: »

Very much doubt it, people just won't opt for it. With the motorway the business cause for that route has become defunct.

This is a dead argument. Plenty of demand for flights to return between ORK-DUB. With buses every hour between Cork and Dublin and up to 3 leaving at one hour alone most days are you really trying to tell me theirs no demand?

That's a 2012 quote from Ryanair after they drove RE at the time off it.

JCX BXC

Why is it a dead argument?

How come RE didn't jump back on the route when Ryanair left?

By the time you get to the airport, arrive at minimum an hour early, arrive in Dublin, make your way through Dublin and then drive from the airport to wherever you need to get to I'd say you'd be there by bus/car for a much cheaper price and with a lot less hassle.

That's leaving out the delays that occur so frequently due to weather and technical issues.

Jack1985

Carnacalla wrote: »

Why is it a dead argument?

How come RE didn't jump back on the route when Ryanair left?

By the time you get to the airport, arrive at minimum an hour early, arrive in Dublin, make your way through Dublin and then drive from the airport to wherever you need to get to I'd say you'd be there by bus/car for a much cheaper price and with a lot less hassle.

That's leaving out the delays that occur so frequently due to weather and technical issues.

RE now STK moved all their assets in to Regional which has stood to the company. Bringing back ORK-DUB requires a new frame, the company will need to way up making sure any return is profitable with the right frequency (3x daily seems adequate for a start), and services in between to ensure high utilization which is what STK strive for. The argument you just stated is the argument Ryanair used, it is not an argument for this route - RE once operated 11x daily services between ORK-DUB prior to Ryanair arriving on the scene with 5x daily services on a B738 (much to large for the route), which drove RE down to initially 5x daily, then 2x daily before they canned it unable to complete. FR followed suit as they had no interest in the route. Demand still and always has existed for this route. A regionally operate service (by either an AT76 or a DH8D) is optimal for this route.

Referring to timings, for arguments sake lets say I have a flight departing Dublin Airport at 9:30am:

Depart Cork @ 05:00 - Aircoach
Arrive City Centre @ 08:00 - Dependent on Traffic usually late, due to N7 bottlekneck.
Arrive DUB Airport @ 08:30 - Minimum time needed for connection (checked-in online).

Depart Cork @ 07:00 - Stobart
Arrive DUB Airport @ 07:55
Bus to City Centre @ 08:25 - Hand luggage only, have done this in less time myself.
Arrive O'Connell St @ 09:10 - Traffic Dependent (747 Bus from T2)

You're saving yourself an hour, and that's just for Dublin City Centre travellers. The majority of those taking the bus these days are getting it to the airport from Cork, plenty of people would pay an extra tenner to get from ORK to DUB in 55mins. You can check-in online and head straight to the Gate, no need for an hour at ORK or DUB using Fast pass as the majority of Business Travellers especially do - Leisure passengers this would not matter to so much as research consistently shows (Price + Duration of flight -v- Road)

Your latter statement applies to road transport too, technical issues with aircraft make a tiny percentage of delays not even negligible in an argument.

JCX BXC

Leave home at 5:30am to arrive in Cork airport at 5:50am, so leaving an hour and a half earlier to arrive in Dublin an hour earlier? You didn't take that into account.

And I believe its fair to say you will encounter delays while flying far more frequently than unusually severe traffic or a breakdown while driving.

Jack1985

Carnacalla wrote: »

Leave home at 5:30am to arrive in Cork airport at 5:50am, so leaving an hour and a half earlier to arrive in Dublin an hour earlier? You didn't take that into account.

And I believe its fair to say you will encounter delays while flying far more frequently than unusually severe traffic or a breakdown while driving.

You don't take in to account people getting the bus/train... Fail to see your point. People using those services would much rather use air transport, people will always drive that's not who this service would cater too.

And I believe its fair to say you will encounter delays while flying far more frequently than unusually severe traffic or a breakdown while driving.

That's an untruth on statistics, have you drove between Cork and Dublin lately?

JCX BXC

Jack1985 wrote: »

You don't take in to account people getting the bus... Fail to see your point.

It takes longer and costs much more to take a flight than taking a bus or driving, and that's excluding the much higher chance of a delay.

Jack1985

Carnacalla wrote: »

It takes longer and costs much more to take a flight than taking a bus or driving, and that's excluding the much higher chance of a delay.

Who's to say that? The aircoach will set you back €30 max return. At the Time RE charged roughly less than €40 return some days, people will always pay a premium.

Carnacalla where do you get the delays from ? Show me your stats. Your spreading untruths here to support an old argument.

JCX BXC

Jack1985 wrote: »

Who's to say that? The aircoach will set you back €30 max return. At the Time RE charged roughly less than €40 return some days, people will always pay a premium.

Carnacalla where do you get the delays from ? Show me your stats. Your spreading untruths here to support an old argument.

But that's rare, from experience the amount of flights that are offered for very cheap prices are minimal, with the bulk of seats seemingly sold at higher prices. For someone who's planning a trip to Dublin months in advance that's fine, but a trip to Dublin isn't like a trip abroad, its generally something that's decided on fairly late.

Delays again from experience, I could search for delay stats but its not worth the effort.

I've made my argument, and what I believe is that we will never see that route return again. I respect that you may have a different opinion.

orionm_73

Carnacalla wrote: »

Why would the IAG ground want to stop people connecting in Heathrow?

For the same reason they want people from regional U.K. Airports heading to North America to use DUB. It frees up seats for those wanting to head east. Likewise in ORK, I'd imagine it would make sense to send people via DUB where possible and free up seats for those connecting to Asia, ME, and Africa rather than them using AMS and CDG.

Jack1985

Carnacalla wrote: »

But that's rare, from experience the amount of flights that are offered for very cheap prices are minimal, with the bulk of seats seemingly sold at higher prices. For someone who's planning a trip to Dublin months in advance that's fine, but a trip to Dublin isn't like a trip abroad, its generally something that's decided on fairly late.

Delays again from experience, I could search for delay stats but its not worth the effort.

I've made my argument, and what I believe is that we will never see that route return again. I respect that you may have a different opinion.

€40 return isint cheap for a 55 minute flight by any standards. A reason they can charge more also is they guarantee your seat and also demand - Noboddy is a chartiy everyone excepts that.

You fail to see (repeatedly through numerous interactions) that there are always people who are happy to pay a premium. There's never one solution fits all. That's also not my point. When you book fairly ''late'' you have to accept you will be charged more.

If this route returns it will be different compared with before, more than likely it will be operated by STK allowing connections on to EI's L/H route network (Not reliant on P2P). People will use this service for connections ex-DUB with other carriers, and there will always be a slice of people using this for Business in Dublin or leisure travel in Dublin.

Carnacalla I'd like to see the stats. You see you band off statements on numerous forums on here without back-up, I'd like to see it.

I believe your argument is wrong, this is a public forum where arguments can be debated. Not where one shuts down the other.

orionm_73 wrote: »

For the same reason they want people from regional U.K. Airports heading to North America to use DUB. It frees up seats for those wanting to head east. Likewise in ORK, I'd imagine it would make sense to send people via DUB where possible and free up seats for those connecting to Asia, ME, and Africa rather than them using AMS and CDG.

Nail on the head there.

aer Lingus could in theory make a killing on the route by offering inclusive fares much like they do from the UK regionals and take back the passengers from the buses and the trains. Personally If it was the other way around I'd prefer to fly to Cork and transfer in the airport rather than suffer public transport and cramped unclean seats. But that's me.

JCX BXC

I have not shut down your argument, I've stated my opinion and its not worth the effort of the increasing tension of this "discussuon". I'd like to ask you leave the discussion now because it is going around in circles and you will resort to making it personal.

Jack1985

Deleted User wrote: »

aer Lingus could in theory make a killing on the route by offering inclusive fares much like they do from the UK regionals and take back the passengers from the buses and the trains. Personally If it was the other way around I'd prefer to fly to Cork and transfer in the airport rather than suffer public transport and cramped unclean seats. But that's me.

And there's plenty of people like that GVHOT.

Carnacalla wrote: »

I have not shut down your argument, I've stated my opinion and its not worth the effort of the increasing tension of this "discussuon". I'd like to ask you leave the discussion now because it is going around in circles and you will resort to making it personal.

Sorry? conversations usually go around in circles Carnacalla when you wont accept facts. I've asked already for you to show me stats related to your earlier unfounded argument which you now have pivoted from with an unrelated argument above.

Irish Steve

Carnacalla and Jack1985. Move on from this thread, or I will be issuing bans to you both. No further warnings

JCX BXC

Stobart didn't release their new routes until the 7th of December last year, could we expect anything new or will we expect the airline to try and grow existing routes? LBA failed this summer.

lisasimpson

A can be have this as a positive thread?

Jamie2k9

EI/KLM code share is safe for summer 2017.

Jamie2k9

Extra LHR and European flights to Cork to be announced at a later date.

Credit Mark Henry twitter.

KCAccidental

Selfishly crossing my fingers for Budapest

lisasimpson

Seemingly madrid with iberria is back from 3rd of june next year but hasnt been advertised yet...why can the summer season from cork for such routes be longer ie may to october

JCX BXC

lisasimpson wrote: »

Seemingly madrid with iberria is back from 3rd of june next year but hasnt been advertised yet...why can the summer season from cork for such routes be longer ie may to october

Airline can't see a market yet, it starter in Late June last year IIRC so at least its an increase this year.

roundymac

Zurich starts next summer, just announced. Starts in June with friday departures, later on a monday flight is added, ends in sept. More great news and also it will be one of the Bombardier c series planes as well.
.corkairport.com/news/detail/2016/11/17/swiss-air-to-operate-new-cork-zurich-route
Sorry, can't get it to link, you'll have to go to the Cork airport website for more detail.

ongarboy

Wirh Swissair

http://www.breakingnews.ie/business/cork-airport-announces-new-route-to-europe-764529.html

KCAccidental

Not bad, another hub option as well, so always a bonus.

airportlackie

Any new winter routes from Cork hoping to head to Northern Europe for a Christmas market

roundymac

Paris/Amsterdam/one of the Polish destiations would be the most northern places for xmas markets out of Cork, that is assuming there is xmas markets in those places.

Pat Dunne

airportlackie wrote: »

Any new winter routes from Cork hoping to head to Northern Europe for a Christmas market

When you say Northern Europe, do you mean Scandinavia/Nordic Countries. Which have no real tradition of Christamas Fairs, plus they're painfully expensive.

Based on direct experience the best Christmas Fairs are in Germany, Slovakia, Czech Republic, Poland, Austria and Eastern France.

The Daddy of them all has to be Rothenburg ob der Tauber this is total Christmas everywhere you go in the city.

Bear in mind it doesn't usually snow in Europe until January and February unless you go to the Alpine areas.

The Travel Forum http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=37 is better geared to give you more detailed advice we're just a bunch of plane geeks, here.

roundymac

Big cut in Amsterdam flights out of Cork for next year, down from 14 to 9 per week. Only the morning flights and a couple of the evening flights remain. I presume this is to get people to fly LHR and connect, really limits the options available.

LXFlyer

roundymac wrote: »

Big cut in Amsterdam flights out of Cork for next year, down from 14 to 9 per week. Only the morning flights and a couple of the evening flights remain. I presume this is to get people to fly LHR and connect, really limits the options available.

There aren't 14 flights each way per week on the route - currently it's only 11.

In May next year the website timetable is showing 11 flights each way at the moment.

It varied according to peak demand levels.

lisasimpson

Does anyone actually know if wow are continuing past oct? I know people who want to go see the northern lights but website isnt going past oct. Condidering iceland is a popular winter break and people flying home from canada for christmas new yrs you would expect demand. And americans visiting family for thankgiving
I was happy with their service last month. Although it was mostly americans on the flighton the way back. Hope more Irish avail of it

JCX BXC

lxflyer wrote: »

There aren't 14 flights each way per week on the route - currently it's only 11.

In May next year the website timetable is showing 11 flights each way at the moment.

It varied according to peak demand levels.

May next year showing only 9 for me.

JCX BXC

lisasimpson wrote: »

Does anyone actually know if wow are continuing past oct? I know people who want to go see the northern lights but website isnt going past oct. Condidering iceland is a popular winter break and people flying home from canada for christmas new yrs you would expect demand. And americans visiting family for thankgiving
I was happy with their service last month. Although it was mostly americans on the flighton the way back. Hope more Irish avail of it

A week of Christmas demand doesn't make a route, it'll have to survive the rest of December and January, as well as November, February and March. If it can't it may not continue.

Anyway it's only the start of July tomorrow, plenty of time for the route to be continued.

lisasimpson

I know it needs more than 2/3 weeks around christmas but its a growing winter break. I know of a group going to see the northern lights in jan got fed up waiting to see if its extended and have booked to go from dublin instead.
Must make it hard on the airport management trying to get new routes if they cant get new ones to continue.
Hopefully it wont be another use it or lose it

JCX BXC

lisasimpson wrote: »

I know it needs more than 2/3 weeks christmas but its a growing winter break. I know of a group going to see the northern lights in jan got fed up waiting to see if its extended and have booked to go from dublin instead. Must make it hard on the airport management trying to get new routes if they cant get new ones to continue
Hopefully it wont be another use it or lose it

Ah for god sakes it's months away, and if they're getting fed up now I'd imagine they'd no real intention of flying from Cork anyway.

I know what you meant by the use it or lose it, but every route is that. If nobody uses it, it'll be lost, like London City, like Prague, like Ibiza.

LXFlyer

JCX BXC wrote: »

May next year showing only 9 for me.

Sorry, I was looking at the timetable rather than the booking engine.

The summer 2018 timetable could yet change - it's not normally finalised till the Autumn and even then could still change.

I wouldn't take it as gospel by any means as yet.

JCX BXC

lxflyer wrote: »

Sorry, I was looking at the timetable rather than the booking engine.

The summer 2018 timetable could yet change - it's not normally finalised till the Autumn and even then could still change.

I wouldn't take it as gospel by any means as yet.

The timetable tends to be an exact replica of the year before until someone changes it, I find the booking engine is more up to date, which is understandable considering that's where they make the money.

I agree, but I doubt they'd be changing it this early without any basis, although I suspect this is as a result of losing the KLM Codeshare, if they get a deal to continue this I could see frequencies going up again

LXFlyer

JCX BXC wrote: »

The timetable tends to be an exact replica of the year before until someone changes it, I find the booking engine is more up to date, which is understandable considering that's where they make the money.

I agree, but I doubt they'd be changing it this early without any basis, although I suspect this is as a result of losing the KLM Codeshare, if they get a deal to continue this I could see frequencies going up again

It's still not that dramatic a change in any case - current frequency is 11 per week.

JCX BXC

lxflyer wrote: »

It's still not that dramatic a change in any case - current frequency is 11 per week.

As you said, seasonal demand for the summer, it's 13x outside of June-August.

Jamie2k9

They haven't even looked at summer 2018, just about finalized winter 17/18 on the network.

JCX BXC

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

They haven't even looked at summer 2018, just about finalized winter 17/18 on the network.

Strange they'd go to the effort of reducing it whatsoever then isn't it?

L1011

JCX BXC wrote: »

I agree, but I doubt they'd be changing it this early without any basis, although I suspect this is as a result of losing the KLM Codeshare, if they get a deal to continue this I could see frequencies going up again

The KLM codeshare still exists on ORK. They only dropped it on DUB

Jamie2k9

JCX BXC wrote: »

Strange they'd go to the effort of reducing it whatsoever then isn't it?

They are just covering themselves in the unlikely event KLM won't extend it beyond March 2018.

JCX BXC

L1011 wrote: »

The KLM codeshare still exists on ORK. They only dropped it on DUB

The Codeshare seems to end at the end of February, coinciding with the reduction of frequency on the ORK route.

kevinandrew

Makes perfect sense for Aer Lingus to reduce the frequency to AMS if KLM want to end the code share, on the upside at least there's an increased chance of KLM starting their own services to ORK but we'll have to wait and see. 

As part of IAG, Aer Lingus can't realistically continue to feed a rival airline group no matter how long standing the relationship has been. The Heathrow route is up to five daily this summer indicating an increased focus on feed through the London hub over anywhere else, they may well be preparing for a slight retreat at AMS next year.