Brexit: The Last Stand (No name calling)

Iwasfrozen

tomwaterford wrote: »

I never said they couldn't

.....just pointing out that as it stands without transferring unrail powers to customs offials....they are creating hundreds of easy targets for dissidents????


Customs iirc in the UK haven't powers to stop a vehicle without police officers present???

Dissident republicans in Northern Ireland cannot be allowed to over rule the majority of British people who voted Brexit ortly to secure their borders. Any dissident attack will be dealt with on an individual basis. You'll find post 9/11 and 7/7 Britain is far less tolerant to terrorism as they once were.

tomwaterford

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Dissident republicans in Northern Ireland cannot be allowed to over rule the majority of British people who voted Brexit ortly to secure their borders. Any dissident attack will be dealt with on an individual basis. You'll find post 9/11 and 7/7 Britain is far less tolerant to terrorism as they once were.

I've never said they should.....just your need for reasons unknown to create 100s of easy targets for them is naive at best


By all means if you want to create scenarios for them,to in their eyes have more successes etc and help them in recruiting/properganda etc.....don't let me stop you



Never taught Brexiters and dissidents would be looking for the same thing.....

Iwasfrozen

tomwaterford wrote: »

I've never said they should.....just your need for reasons unknown to create 100s of easy targets for them is naive at best

By all means if you want to create scenarios for them,to in their eyes have more successes etc and help them in recruiting/properganda etc.....don't let me stop you

Never taught Brexiters and dissidents would be looking for the same thing.....

I've never said I favor a hard border. Only that the potential actions of terrorists should not be taken into consideration.

tomwaterford

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

I've never said I favor a hard border.

So you don't wish for border check points and want free movement over and back the border???



Quite the tune change there??

Iwasfrozen

tomwaterford wrote: »

So you don't wish for border check points and want free movement over and back the border???



Quite the tune change there??

Please point out the change of tune. I've done no such thing.

I never said I favor free movement. Only that the potential actions of terrorists should not be taken into consideration.

tomwaterford

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Please point out the change of tune. I've done no such thing.

I never said I favor free movement. Only that the potential actions of terrorists should not be taken into consideration.

Your either favour free movements or a hard border??


Are we to assume like most rational people you favour free movements??
Or do you wish to assist dissidents in properganda and set up check points and a hard border .....which you've said your not in favour of???

Or the third option.....none of the above and secretly don't want a brexit and are on an epic trolling mission???


:pac:

Iwasfrozen

tomwaterford wrote: »

Your either favour free movements or a hard border??


Are we to assume like most rational people you favour free movements??
Or do you wish to assist dissidents in properganda and set up check points and a hard border .....which you've said your not in favour of???

Or the third option.....none of the above and secretly don't want a brexit and are on an epic trolling mission???


:pac:

I haven't expressed an opinion since its irrelevant to the point I'm making.

That point being that the potential actions of terrorists should not be taken into consideration.

tomwaterford

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

I haven't expressed an opinion since its irrelevant to the point I'm making.

That point being that the potential actions of terrorists should not be taken into consideration.

Seems to me Brexiters don't know what they want so


Presumably long term planning isn't their strong point....:D:D




Why all the talk of securing borders if you don't want to secure the land border with the free state??
So in effect they still have a free border with the eu....and since you don't favour a hard border it'll provide free movement of people and goods

Really so immigration etc wasn't any motivation for Brexiters???
And neither was a secure border


Seems we here in ireland have been badly misinformed on brexit.....what do Brexiters want/motivate them???

Joe Hill

I am fairly certain brexit will not happen now.. ..in any shape or form.

FrancieBrady

Grayson wrote: »

The gardai manned the border on our side for years and were never armed.

They were frequently armed gardai on the border. They were also assisted by the army.
I lived on it.

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Please show anywhere that says the UK cannot police their own borders.

The 40 odd years of conflict shows adequately that the UK cannot police a border. The one on this island was totally useless when it came to anything practical and was just an expensive sop to Unionists.
I lived right smack on it.

FrancieBrady

Joe Hill wrote: »

I am fairly certain brexit will not happen now.. ..in any shape or form.

I watched the repeat of Question Time last night that was referenced earlier.
I was sceptical that Brexit would happen but I am more convinced after watching that.
I have never seen such overt xenophobia given voice like that before. Of course The huge danger is that people don't realise themselves that they are engaging in it. And of course we had people (who should know better) stoking it, Conrad Black etc with his 'Britain is a great nation, and that is reason enough to let it do as it wants' (not his exacr words)
A brave Polish woman and a young female teacher spoke up against Brexit and for a few moments I feared for their safety. Awful.

The divisions exacerbated by Thatcher have gotten deeper and maybe be terminal. I genuinely think Britain/UK is in real trouble.

steddyeddy

maryishere wrote: »

Which is why a relatively high percentage of the migrants to Australia have been Irish. Would you prefer it if the muslim population of Australia increased by 11.5 million like it has in Europe? There are 260 million people next door to Australia living in Indonesia. Their nominal gdp per head is only 3400 dollars per year. Would you like it if half of those people settled in Australia?

A high number of migrants are Irish because they're abused? What are you talking about Mary?

Anita Blow

maryishere wrote: »

R P McMurphy wrote: »

I don't know how anyone could hold that up as a model for how to treat migrants.

Ye goota be cruel to be kind sometimes.

Did you just try to justify abuse of vulnerable children?
Jesus ****ing Christ

FrancieBrady

Anita Blow wrote: »

Did you just try to justify abuse of vulnerable children?
Jesus ****ing Christ

One of those 'OOOkayyyyy' moments when you back away.

Fratton Fred

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Think of it in boxing weight division terms.

China, USA, EU are heavyweights.

India is a cruiserweight.

Japan, Germany, Russia, Indonesia and Brazil are light heavyweights.

The UK and France are super middleweights.

Italy and Mexico are middleweights.

The UK needs to understand that it's in the middleweight category and can not expect to push around the heavyweights.

Further proof that shinners should not attempt economics.

FrancieBrady

A pro Brexiter/or somebody who thinks Brexit will not impact negatively lecturing somebody on economics. :rolleyes:

Fratton Fred

FrancieBrady wrote: »

A pro Brexiter/or somebody who thinks Brexit will not impact negatively lecturing somebody on economics. :rolleyes:

It will impact negatively, no doubt on that.

FrancieBrady

Fratton Fred wrote: »

It will impact negatively, no doubt on that.

How?

Fratton Fred

FrancieBrady wrote: »

How?

Because it causes unnecessary uncertainty, which stalls economic growth.

The Rape of Lucretia

Surely the sensible place for the hard border (and there has to be a hard border somewhere - taking back control of brders and immigration is clearly nonsense without one) is between Nortgern Ireland and the mainland. Keeping an open border within Ireland is desireable for all. With no border controls post Brexit impossible, and it very unfair to expect the republicans to carry the cost and disruption to their citizens travel within the EU, the practical solution is to do so at the ports and airports of NI. Disruptive to NI citizens travelling within tge UK - but too bad - they are the ones who want their cake and eat it. So they should pay the price for their compromise solution of Brexit but open border with Eire.

catbear

Indeed, as it is ID checks are required for leaving ulster ports so moving the CTA back into the Irish sea wouldn't even be noticed.

Nothing changes for northern Ireland residents, unionist and nationalist.

The only thing happens is for EU citizens who'll have to have their British visa sorted if they want to travel across to that miserable hole.

steddyeddy

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Surely the sensible place for the hard border (and there has to be a hard border somewhere - taking back control of brders and immigration is clearly nonsense without one) is between Nortgern Ireland and the mainland. Keeping an open border within Ireland is desireable for all. With no border controls post Brexit impossible, and it very unfair to expect the republicans to carry the cost and disruption to their citizens travel within the EU, the practical solution is to do so at the ports and airports of NI. Disruptive to NI citizens travelling within tge UK - but too bad - they are the ones who want their cake and eat it. So they should pay the price for their compromise solution of Brexit but open border with Eire.

Forgetting NI reunification or staying with the mainland for now, NI really needs a dose of reality.

catbear

What would be interesting is how welfare payments for Irish citizens in NI will be arranged. If they were to eligible for their Irish employment benefit for the work they do in the republic while resident in NI then I can see more border business actually happening.

steddyeddy

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I watched the repeat of Question Time last night that was referenced earlier.
I was sceptical that Brexit would happen but I am more convinced after watching that.
I have never seen such overt xenophobia given voice like that before. Of course The huge danger is that people don't realise themselves that they are engaging in it. And of course we had people (who should know better) stoking it, Conrad Black etc with his 'Britain is a great nation, and that is reason enough to let it do as it wants' (not his exacr words)
A brave Polish woman and a young female teacher spoke up against Brexit and for a few moments I feared for their safety. Awful.

The divisions exacerbated by Thatcher have gotten deeper and maybe be terminal. I genuinely think Britain/UK is in real trouble.

Yes I was watching that too. A Polish woman says she feels less welcome after Brexit and what's the response from the audience? They boo her. This is on Question Time, not Jeremy Kyle.

Ken Clarke was the voice of reason. Then you had the little Britainers full of pride over Brexit booing anyone who disagreed with them.

Apparantly criticising Brexit is anti-democratic.

FrancieBrady

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Because it causes unnecessary uncertainty, which stalls economic growth.

So why so protective of those who have brought this stagnation on themselves and most likely to this island?

steddyeddy

FrancieBrady wrote: »

So why so protective of those who have brought this stagnation on themselves and most likely to this island?

Britain and its colonies = good no matter what the action.

FrancieBrady

steddyeddy wrote: »

Yes I was watching that too. A Polish woman says she feels less welcome after Brexit and what's the response from the audience? They boo her. This is on Question Time, not Jeremy Kyle.

Ken Clarke was the voice of reason. Then you had the little Britainers full of pride over Brexit booing anyone who disagreed with them.

Apparantly criticising Brexit is anti-democratic.

Problem is, you can't put that stuff back in the box for a generation or more. It will grow and give licence to people to say and do stuff.
We have a poster on here who thinks abuse of children caught in an impossible situation is 'being cruel to be kind'.

FrancieBrady

steddyeddy wrote: »

Britain and its colonies = good no matter what the action.

The defence and repudiation of any criticism makes it seem that way alright.

Fratton Fred

steddyeddy wrote: »

Britain and its colonies = good no matter what the action.

I thought you were better than that.

Fratton Fred

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The defence and repudiation of any criticism makes it seem that way alright.

The thing is, it isn't criticism, it's childish finger-pointing. You seem to think that the eu is beyond reproach and any idea that us has its faults is just stupid colonialism.

The eu is a great idea, but badly executed and has left a lot of people all over Europe feeling alienated. The eu is just as much to blame for Brexit as Nigel Farage and unless it changes, Britain will be the first of many.