Brexit: The Last Stand (No name calling)

Chips Lovell

Hold on, hold on....

It seems one of the judges who made the ruling yesterday is "an openly gay ex-Olympic fencer”.

This changes everything.

A Little Pony

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

The fact an Irish Republican supports the EU.

I'd suspect for many it's not so much support as pragmatic acceptance. We're a small country with a small population who needs to be part of a bigger club of nations in a globalised world. One of the reasons we joined the EU was to offset the influence the British had over this country - it's a good thing we currently have our little boat lashed to the mainland as the ship next door looks like it's heading for choppy waters.

Makes no sense for a nation wanting Independence wanting to join a club which takes it away. Once you don't control your own borders, you lose Independence. Wolfe Tone philosophy while I disagree culturally with it as I am on one side of the debate, is sound.

Connolly would be against the EU capitalist system.

Yes, friends, governments in capitalist society are but committees of the rich to manage the affairs of the capitalist class.

James Connolly

ohnonotgmail

Jep Gambardella wrote: »

Hold on, hold on....

It seems one of the judges who made the ruling yesterday is "an openly gay ex-Olympic fencer”.

This changes everything.

*faints*

A Little Pony

However it may be for others, for us of the Citizen Army there is but one ideal - an Ireland ruled, and owned, by Irish men and women, sovereign and independent from the centre to the sea, and flying its own flag outward over all the oceans.
James Connolly

Chips Lovell

I think if you increased the font size by just one more point you'll convert everyone to rabid nationalism.

FrancieBrady

A Little Pony wrote: »

Are you trying to say I get my views from the newspapers? You could not be more wrong. The fact an Irish Republican supports the EU is flabbergasting to me but then I have studied the historical founding of the ideology and the two don't add up.

Yes I am saying that. You STILL haven't backed up your scaremongering with any substantial evidence that the EU is subverting democracies against their will (< the important bit)

Unlike other 'isms' on this island, republicanism can develop and it is not hidebound to the ideology of men and women who are 100 years dead and would have had no concept of modern economics or survival.

Junkyard Tom

A Little Pony wrote: »

Wolfe Tone. Connolly

When you get the opinions of these lads from the 21st Century then let me know. You also might have a word with those you vote for that they're not living in the 17th Century either.

FrancieBrady

Jep Gambardella wrote: »

I think if you increased the font size by just one more point you'll convert everyone to rabid nationalism.

NEVER TRUST MEN IN LYCRA WHEN IT IS INVENTED OR CYCLISTS.
..........................................................................James Connolly

A Little Pony

FrancieBrady wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

Are you trying to say I get my views from the newspapers? You could not be more wrong. The fact an Irish Republican supports the EU is flabbergasting to me but then I have studied the historical founding of the ideology and the two don't add up.

Yes I am saying that. You STILL haven't backed up your scaremongering with any substantial evidence that the EU is subverting democracies against their will (< the important bit)

Unlike other 'isms' on this island, republicanism can develop and it is not hidebound to the ideology of men and women who are 100 years dead and would have had no concept of modern economics or survival.

You must have been living under a rock for the last 5 years to not have seen the EU subverting the rights of Greece and its democracy, overturning a legitimate democratic mandate. Just another example of how this institution works.

A Little Pony

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

Wolfe Tone. Connolly

When you get the opinions of these lads from the 21st Century then let me know. You also might have a word with those you vote for that they're not living in the 17th Century either.

Connolly was a Socialist against the capitalist system and its masters. It is one of the reasons you had one of the largest trade Unions in the UK supporting the leave vote because of the capitalist structure of the EU.

http://www.tuaeu.co.uk/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWnpbEMMsNw

FrancieBrady

A Little Pony wrote: »

You must have been living under a rock for the last 5 years to not have seen the EU subverting the rights of Greece and its democracy, overturning a legitimate democratic mandate. Just another example of how this institution works.

Greece was given an ultimatum, hardly 'subverting democracy'?

Interesting that you quote Greece that has ACTUALLY lived under a dictatorship.
Would it suprise you that a whooping 75% of Greeks want to stay in the EU at ANY cost? Even after all that imagined 'subverting'.

Not liking what the EU did is not the same as seeing subversion.

demfad

A Little Pony wrote: »

Makes no sense for a nation wanting Independence wanting to join a club which takes it away. Once you don't control your own borders, you lose Independence. Wolfe Tone philosophy while I disagree culturally with it as I am on one side of the debate, is sound.

Connolly would be against the EU capitalist system.

The EU does not take sovereignty away. Once you sign a treaty you give away some control. Any EU state already has the sovereignty and independence to leave the treaty and take back more control in particular area. There is no loss or gain of sovereignty. By allowing money services, and goods to transfer between countries you must also allow workers and people to move freely. That's how single markets work.
If a State feels that this arrangement is not in their interest then they are free to leave the treaty in a way that conforms to the treaty and the States's own laws. At no point is sovereignty gained or lost.

By the UK implying that they still want access to the single market without allowing the four freedoms they are in effect trying to change the EU and the rights of citizens therein.

If they want to leave, then leave. If they want to stay, then stay. If they can't do either then they need to sort out exactly what they want. They will have to come up with some plan before they present to parliament anyway.

Trying to destroy the four freedoms and then accusing the EU of belligerence when it says NO makes them look ridiculous.



Note: You're saying although Wolfe Tone's arguments are reasonable: but culturally you are against it. Think about it.

VinLieger

A Little Pony wrote: »

The British people voted to leave, I voted to leave. So that is a wrong assessment. But I would expect that from you.

So you dispute that they were lied to during the campaign?

The_Valeyard

Thread title needs to change for November 5th. Some sort of Guy Fawkes or V for Vendetta theme.

A Little Pony

VinLieger wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

The British people voted to leave, I voted to leave. So that is a wrong assessment. But I would expect that from you.

So you dispute that they were lied to during the campaign?

From which side should be the question.

VinLieger

A Little Pony wrote: »

From which side should be the question.

Both?

ohnonotgmail

A Little Pony wrote: »

From which side should be the question.

£350M a week? was that the amount?

Zubeneschamali

A Little Pony wrote: »

flying its own flag outward over all the oceans.

Connolly's ideal requires somewhat unusual meteorological conditions as we generally have winds coming broadly from the Southwest, leading at least some of our flags to fly landward, rather than outward over all the oceans.

"All the oceans" would also be difficult, as the Pacific, Indian, Arctic and Antarctic Oceans are some distance away.

So more properly, this should read "flying its own flag either inward, outward or sometimes parallel to the coast, beside the single adjoining ocean and the various nearby seas and channels."

Geography evidently not his strong suit.

Chips Lovell

So.... Who thinks Brexit will make Britain more socialist?

A Little Pony

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

From which side should be the question.

350M a week? was that the amount?

Awaiting George Osbornes emergency budget...

Both sides said dubious things to try and win. Although I think 350 million a week could be spent on the health service after we leave the EU. Just requires the political will to do it, it isn't an impossibility.

Mr. CooL ICE

The_Valeyard wrote: »

Thread title needs to change for November 5th. Some sort of Guy Fawkes or V for Vendetta theme.

V for Valeyard

VinLieger

A Little Pony wrote: »

Awaiting George Osbornes emergency budget...

Both sides said dubious things to try and win. Although I think 350 million a week could be spent on the health service after we leave the EU. Just requires the political will to do it, it isn't an impossibility.

In that case they could spend it in the EU now cus it was proven to be an out and out lie, with all the other funding thats gonna be lost from leaving 350 mil per week is still gonna mean your minus what you currently have

FrancieBrady

V for Valiantly Clinging to Populist Notions.

Zubeneschamali

Jep Gambardella wrote: »

So.... Who thinks Brexit will make Britain more socialist?

Jeremy Corbyn?

I suppose the path is get out of the EU, let the Tories run riot for 10 years until people are fed up of Eton/Oxford aristocrats calling them plebs and gold plating their moat duck islands with money robbed from the NHS, and then win an election.

FrancieBrady

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

let the Tories run riot for 10 years until people are fed up of Eton/Oxford aristocrats calling them plebs and gold plating their moat duck islands with money robbed from the NHS.

You would think the typical Brexiter would be genuinely afraid of allowing that to happen. But 'control' I suppose.

MichaelScarn

A Little Pony wrote: »

Awaiting George Osbornes emergency budget...

Both sides said dubious things to try and win. Although I think 350 million a week could be spent on the health service after we leave the EU. Just requires the political will to do it, it isn't an impossibility.

There is dubious things and there is outright lies.

It was plastered on the side of the bus that the NHS would receive £350 million extra a week if you voted to leave.

I think even the leave campaigners were shocked that their viewpoint won. They were not expecting it so took liberties (ie lied) with their information.

sKeith

What lies? I loved this cartoon from post election referendum.

Iwasfrozen

Harvey Normal wrote: »

There are laws on general elections now and losing a vote that isn't specifically a no confidence vote doesn't trigger an election. I'm not even sure the government can force a confidence vote (in order to lose).

Labour are in no shape to fight an election.

Parliament is sovereign. I admire the way that Irish people have become British constitutional experts over night, but I've always believed that article 50 has to be specifically invoked by an act of Parliament - and certainly overturning the different EU acts needs parliament. And that might be hard with a Parliament that is largely pro EU. So this Parliament should refuse to invoke article 50, be dissolved,and an anti EU Parliament will take its place.

That would take too much time. Far easier for the government to force Parliament to vote to leave the EU through the Tory whip.

demfad

A Little Pony wrote: »

Awaiting George Osbornes emergency budget...

Both sides said dubious things to try and win. Although I think 350 million a week could be spent on the health service after we leave the EU. Just requires the political will to do it, it isn't an impossibility.

How do you think £350 million could be found?

If it's a hard Brexit then collossal amounts of money will have to be paid to Nissan and their Car manufacturing amigos, and also to the other big industries to offset tax, country of origin losses etc.
Medium size and small business will be hit badly with no sweetheart deals there. With no trade deals taking decades to be in place and all of them worse than what the UK currently enjoys then GDP will stagnate or recede.
WHERE do you see this £350 million a week coming from? Cloud Cuckoo Land?
If you go for a soft Brexit, then the UK is in the single market, will obey the rules (with no say) and be under the ECJ. They wil also pay in as they pay in now (or more) so the £350 million is mute.

Capt'n Midnight

Jep Gambardella wrote: »

Hold on, hold on....

It seems one of the judges who made the ruling yesterday is "an openly gay ex-Olympic fencer”.

This changes everything.

The sidebar has the headline
Face Transplant Recipient Looks Unrecognisable Two Years After Life-Changing Surgery :pac: