Budget 2017

OldNotWIse

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Peace and freedom

From the budget? :rolleyes:

Idbatterim

Idbatterim wrote: »

http://www.thejournal.ie/jobseekers-payments-northern-ireland-republic-comparison-3019455-Oct2016/

right, I want people defending rates here, to take read of the above gem I have just found, I am awaiting responses... And if its that the cost of living is cheaper in northern ireland by anything more than a few percent which it is, is mentioned, when welfare rates are drastically lower, spare me the reply...

their rates to my mind are reasonable...

When you add up the total amount spent by the number of recipients there's very little difference in the actual payments made in the 2 countries, it's only the headline rate which looks drastically different. Though Sterling's decline in the last few months will have changed that. That's before considering Motability and the like.

Wanderer78

Iseedeadpixels wrote:

The fact my mother is now in hospital and has been bed bound for years due to smoking gives me the right to hate it, she quit when docs told her to, after her sister died from smoking related illness as well. Yes I do take the same stance with Alcoholics and drug users, as for my own bad habits I let myself go put on too much weight but low and behold a month in the gym Im down 22 pounds and ill keep going!

You are aware, people with problems such as alcoholism and drug addiction etc are suffering with complex problems such as mental health issues?

Wanderer78

OldNotWIse wrote:

From the budget?

Divils in the details, but don't feel too bad, seems like most workers didn't really get much which was expected

Iseedeadpixels

Cina wrote: »

We all complain about paying tax on alcohol, don't we?

I've pointed out numerous times in this thread that alcohol is both a greater killer in Ireland than smoking and far, far more expensive to our economy yet every time I do, those who are of the "feck smokers" mentality never seem to have a response to it.

Probably because they drink.

That's the Irish mentality for you.

Wanderer78 wrote: »

You are aware, people with problems such as alcoholism and drug addiction etc are suffering with complex problems such as mental health issues?

I suffer from depression and anxiety I didnt go stick a needle in my arm or down a bottle of smirnoff's finest, I went to the doc out of my own pocket, researched ways to help myself, again there are no excuses for getting addicted to a substance.

nhunter100

Iseedeadpixels wrote:

I suffer from depression and anxiety I didnt go stick a needle in my arm or down a bottle of smirnoff's finest, I went to the doc out of my own pocket, researched ways to help myself, again there are no excuses for getting addicted to a substance.

What's the view like from the high moral ground?

OldNotWIse

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Divils in the details, but don't feel too bad, seems like most workers didn't really get much which was expected

It's not so much that they "gave" us anything, more a case of they are simply taking less! They're not giving a fiver a week - they are taking 35 where they used to take 40.

Wanderer78

Iseedeadpixels wrote:

I suffer from depression and anxiety I didnt go stick a needle in my arm or down a bottle of smirnoff's finest, I went to the doc out of my own pocket, researched ways to help myself again there are no excuses for getting addicted to a substance.

Good for you, unfortunately some don't have the money or abilities to help themselves. I've met many, sadly some die including a friend only a few weeks ago. Sadly it seems like you haven't researched enough, speak to those that work in the mental health services, some people are just incurable. All humans are complicated, one size does not fit all, I.e. your approach may not work for others. All humans are capable of becoming addicts, not all are capable of helping themselves. These issues are not black or white

nhunter100

OldNotWIse wrote:

It's not so much that they "gave" us anything, more a case of they are simply taking less! They're not giving a fiver a week - they are taking 35 where they used to take 40.

Yep that's how tax cuts work . You pay less, keep more.

OldNotWIse

nhunter100 wrote: »

Yep that's how tax cuts work . You pay less, keep more.

Why are they even still taking USC? It was meant to be an emergency, temporary measure.

Ragnar Lothbrok

Iseedeadpixels wrote: »

The fact my mother is now in hospital and has been bed bound for years due to smoking gives me the right to hate it, she quit when docs told her to, after her sister died from smoking related illness as well. Yes I do take the same stance with Alcoholics and drug users, as for my own bad habits I let myself go put on too much weight but low and behold a month in the gym Im down 22 pounds and ill keep going!

Smokers whinging about paying tax on something that will eventually kill or hinder them in older age is pathetic.

I understand why you would hate cigarettes. It's horrible what they can do to people, your poor mother included. But why attack the smokers themselves?

I'm not whinging about paying tax on cigarettes, I'm complaining about the fact that slapping extra on a packet of cigarettes is a lazy way of raising income. I'm also not happy about the way some non-smokers have expressed the view that smokers are a drain on the health system and that somehow it's the non-smokers who have to fund this perceived drain. As I've stated a few times, I'm quite sure that I've already paid more than enough in taxes on the cigarettes I've smoked to cover any future hospital visits I might need.

pumpkin4life

Iseedeadpixels wrote: »

That's the Irish mentality for you.



I suffer from depression and anxiety I didnt go stick a needle in my arm or down a bottle of smirnoff's finest, I went to the doc out of my own pocket, researched ways to help myself, again there are no excuses for getting addicted to a substance.

No offence, (really, depression is horrible) but if you suffer from depression and anti-anxiety you're probably on anti depressants no? That stuff can be far more addictive and dangerous than any pack of cigarettes.

Everyone's got their own issues and vices and whatnot.

nhunter100

OldNotWIse wrote:

Why are they even still taking USC? It was meant to be an emergency, temporary measure.

So the country doesn't need the circa 4 billion it raises to provide services etc. The tax base was hollowed out, it's permanent they might change the name/tinker with the rates but it's going nowhere.

The Bishop Basher

OldNotWIse wrote: »

Why are they even still taking USC? It was meant to be an emergency, temporary measure.

It was but we didn't actually learn anything from the crash and we didn't actually change anything so politicians still have to over pay themselves while continuing to prop up our overstaffed, inefficient, ineffective and incompetent public service with the best salaries in Europe. It would be funny if it wasn't hurting us all and our families in the way that it does..

But this is what we vote for time and time again..

Iseedeadpixels

nhunter100 wrote: »

What's the view like from the high moral ground?

If only you knew the crap I've gone through! I'm a fighter with a never say die attitude, you all bitch and moan about people on the dole "doing nothing" yet when someone who has had mental health issues and who has helped others in that situation has worked hard for at times very little I get the usual "moral ground comment :rolleyes:

There is no excuse for addiction I will always say it, most of these "scroungers" you all love to have a go at are the ones addicted to drugs/alcohol and make people who have genuine mental health issues look bad or "lazy"

BoatMad

Swanner wrote: »

It was but we didn't actually learn anything from the crash and we didn't actually change anything so politicians still have to over pay themselves while continuing to prop up our overstaffed, inefficient, ineffective and incompetent public service with the best salaries in Europe. It would be funny if it wasn't hurting us all and our families in the way that it does..

But this is what we vote for time and time again..

Personally having dealt with various aspects of the PS. I find then intelligent and responsive and clearly efficient within what they see as their priorities.

Are they feathered bedded , yes particularly via their pensions. But I don't accept we have a particulars inefficient or incompetent ps.

Iseedeadpixels

Ragnar Lothbrok wrote: »

I understand why you would hate cigarettes. It's horrible what they can do to people, your poor mother included. But why attack the smokers themselves?

I'm not whinging about paying tax on cigarettes, I'm complaining about the fact that slapping extra on a packet of cigarettes is a lazy way of raising income. I'm also not happy about the way some non-smokers have expressed the view that smokers are a drain on the health system and that somehow it's the non-smokers who have to fund this perceived drain. As I've stated a few times, I'm quite sure that I've already paid more than enough in taxes on the cigarettes I've smoked to cover any future hospital visits I might need.

So you believe they should slap a tax on something that doesn't directly affect peoples health?

pumpkin4life wrote: »

No offence, (really, depression is horrible) but if you suffer from depression and anti-anxiety you're probably on anti depressants no? That stuff can be far more addictive and dangerous than any pack of cigarettes.

Everyone's got their own issues and vices and whatnot.

I'm on a very low dose, like I said I researched it all, refused certain meds etc and have a visit with the doc tomorrow to go on a even lower dose

pumpkin4life

BoatMad wrote: »

Personally having dealt with various aspects of the PS. I find then intelligent and responsive and clearly efficient within what they see as their priorities.

Are they feathered bedded , yes particularly via their pensions. But I don't accept we have a particulars inefficient or incompetent ps.

Depends on the part of the ps.

Get a job as a Clerical Officer/Administration Officer and work for the government. The vast majority of these jobs are an utter waste of taxpayers money. People are mad about scroungers on the dole? Try watching an AO officer getting paid 35 grand a year to do ten minutes of actual work a day. I remember one of the most hilarious cases was putting an Excel sheet rating how good the free food was.

Fùck it. The pb has to be completely stripped down. Some of the universities have the same problems with administrators as well, I believe.

VinLieger

OldNotWIse wrote: »

Why are they even still taking USC? It was meant to be an emergency, temporary measure.

Cus it's a fantastic tax that is spread very broadly and fairly unlike our current income tax bands where the top rate kicks in at 33k

nhunter100

Iseedeadpixels wrote:

If only you knew the crap I've gone through! I'm a fighter with a never say die attitude, you all bitch and moan about people on the dole "doing nothing" yet when someone who has had mental health issues and who has helped others in that situation has worked hard for at times very little I get the usual "moral ground comment

That's the thing I don't know, as you don't know the crap others deal with. Yet you feel ok in making that comment.

nhunter100

Iseedeadpixels wrote:

There is no excuse for addiction I will always say it, most of these "scroungers" you all love to have a go at are the ones addicted to drugs/alcohol and make people who have genuine mental health issues look bad or "lazy"

I've made no go at as you call them scroungers, so less of the tarring everyone with the one brush there chief.

BoatMad

pumpkin4life wrote: »

Depends on the part of the ps.

Get a job as a Clerical Officer/Administration Officer and work for the government. The vast majority of these jobs are an utter waste of taxpayers money. People are mad about scroungers on the dole? Try watching an AO officer getting paid 35 grand a year to do ten minutes of actual work a day. I remember one of the most hilarious cases was putting an Excel sheet rating how good the free food was.

Fùck it. The pb has to be completely stripped down. Some of the universities have the same problems with administrators as well, I believe.

I know several COs and AOs ( big different in grade there) and they seem hard working , intelligent types. , sure any big organisation has fat, but I don't agree it's all rotten , it's a lazy argument to make , it's makes a good sound bite but has little factual basis

LegallyAbroad

OldNotWIse wrote: »

It's not so much that they "gave" us anything, more a case of they are simply taking less! They're not giving a fiver a week - they are taking 35 where they used to take 40.

You'd swear some people didn't avail of any government services ever, and someone was just robbing them. It genuinely is no wonder that political discourse is a poor as it is.

Like children "Gimme more sweeties, I want to keep all my sweeties" etc., etc.

Taxes are the price you pay for living in the 6th most developed country in the world (http://hdr.undp.org/en/composite/HDI). You have to pay taxes, and in return you get to be free, prosperous, and secure all at once. And people are still moaning.

You know where taxes are really low? Anytime prior to the 20th century and modern day Somaliland. Things didn't work out so well.

Iseedeadpixels

nhunter100 wrote: »

That's the thing I don't know, as you don't know the crap others deal with. Yet you feel ok in making that comment.

So the excuse for addiction is they can't handle life? So the rest of us must fork out for them? I am more than happy to make that comment, I saw my best friend fear for his own life due to health issues, hes threw away the drink lost nearly half his body weight and is now doing brilliantly, he could have drunk himself to a early grave but he didnt, I worked in a job that couldnt give 2 ****s about mental health, did I give up and go snort a **** load of coke no I pushed them on it tried to raise awareness on it.

The majority of addicts saying they have mental health issues are bull****ting so they can get away with their lifestyle, its now the "in thing" for excuses.

bur

I'll be forever grateful to the dole-heads for saving me the water charge.

OldNotWIse

LegallyAbroad wrote: »

You'd swear some people didn't avail of any government services ever, and someone was just robbing them. It genuinely is no wonder that political discourse is a poor as it is.

Like children "Gimme more sweeties, I want to keep all my sweeties" etc., etc.

Taxes are the price you pay for living in the 6th most developed country in the world (http://hdr.undp.org/en/composite/HDI). You have to pay taxes, and in return you get to be free, prosperous, and secure all at once. And people are still moaning.

You know where taxes are really low? Anytime prior to the 20th century and modern day Somaliland. Things didn't work out so well.

LegallyAbroad

legocrazy505 wrote: »

That's exactly what each budget does though here. A few euro to the welfare, pensioners, some USC cuts to keep the middle income from all going on strike etc. while they ignore investing in the country to help improve vital services, infrastructure and reduce costs that everyone is affected by.

When they (rarely) invest infrastructure all you hear is "X place where I don't live got Y, How come Z where I live isn't getting Y".

Infrastructure badly missing from this budget. We've basically built nothing of note since T2/Luas Cross Rail.

LegallyAbroad

OldNotWIse wrote: »

Facts speak for themselves. 6th in the UN HDI. Maybe you think there's some other magical country that's way more prosperous, but there isn't. There also hasn't been a time in the history of mankind that has been this prosperous. Continue feeling sorry by hard done you are, though.

nhunter100

Iseedeadpixels wrote:

The majority of addicts saying they have mental health issues are bull****ting so they can get away with their lifestyle, its now the "in thing" for excuses.

Gotta love the arrogance here, you now know the inner most thoughts of the majority of addicts. Btw I have lost friends to suicide various reasons mental being the most predominant but I don't use them to justify my comments. Have a good one I won't be engaging any further with you.

BoatMad

LegallyAbroad wrote: »

You'd swear some people didn't avail of any government services ever, and someone was just robbing them. It genuinely is no wonder that political discourse is a poor as it is.

Like children "Gimme more sweeties, I want to keep all my sweeties" etc., etc.

Taxes are the price you pay for living in the 6th most developed country in the world (http://hdr.undp.org/en/composite/HDI). You have to pay taxes, and in return you get to be free, prosperous, and secure all at once. And people are still moaning.

You know where taxes are really low? Anytime prior to the 20th century and modern day Somaliland. Things didn't work out so well.

+100