Journalism and cycling

Chiparus

Large bottle small glass wrote: »

The Sessions court in Scotland is their equivalent of our Supreme court for civil matters.

A similar thing happened in Cork when the new cycling infrastructure was constructed, only it was pedestrians claiming when they tripped on kerbs that weren't there before. Circuit court, depending on judge found for Claimants and another for council.

An appeal to High Court resulted in council getting favourable verdict and that put an end to that type of claim.

These things are really a coin flip on what judge in a higher court gets to hear case.

It takes people a while to adjust to any new infrastructure, even if decent efforts are made to have it up to standard, people will sometimes get hurt

Its unfortunate that a few people die?

Large bottle small glass

Chiparus wrote: »

Its unfortunate that a few people die?

You you have the answers to design all infrastructure that results in no deaths or injuries?

People have died on very motorway specific accidents who wouldn't have died if they were never built. Many more are living in blissful ignorance of a death if they were never built the motorways.

Trams/Lucas keep emissions out of the cities and reduce transport related health issues and premature deaths.

All major infrastructure decisions are a numbers game and mistakes will be made. If you want to live in a morally superior hindsight bubble that's your call.

You could instead start designing?

tomasrojo

It is possible to design a tram network that has 90 degree crossing points for cyclists. They didn't try. That, if anywhere, is their legal vulnerability.


By "they", I mean the people responsible in Dublin, but I understand the Edinburgh case is similar.

Large bottle small glass

tomasrojo wrote: »

It is possible to design a tram network that has 90 degree crossing points for cyclists. They didn't try. That, if anywhere, is their legal vulnerability.

Of course it's possible, and it would be easy in all cases if your only design consideration was to cater for cyclists.

In an old city doing that isn't always simple, trivial or cheap.

The Dutch cycling infrastructure is often lauded, if that was built in the morning in Dublin I'd expect an increase in certain locations on pedestrians/cyclist impacts and pedestrian tripping accidents. Cycling numbers would sky rocket and traffic and emissions would be lowered.

Major infrastructure changes take time for the population to adapt.

Chiparus

Large bottle small glass wrote: »

You you have the answers to design all infrastructure that results in no deaths or injuries?

People have died on very motorway specific accidents who wouldn't have died if they were never built. Many more are living in blissful ignorance of a death if they were never built the motorways.

Trams/Lucas keep emissions out of the cities and reduce transport related health issues and premature deaths.

All major infrastructure decisions are a numbers game and mistakes will be made. If you want to live in a morally superior hindsight bubble that's your call.

You could instead start designing?

Not hindsight , the warnings about the dangers of light railway tracks were well documented and highlighted to those before the construction of the latest extension of the luas in 2017.

it was also not hindsight as there were well reported deaths and serious injuries to cyclists in the UK and elsewhere.

Submissions were made and chose to be ignored because it was too expensive.

CramCycle

Chiparus wrote: »

Submissions were made and chose to be ignored because it was too expensive.

And this will be there other legal issue, if the issue was highlighted as a H&S issue, and there was an alternative that would have improved H&S and they did not take that, it will be very hard for them to get out of it unless they can show they provided suitable and equivalent alternatives.
In any risk assessment, if you are provided with a risk that is considered substantial or regular, you have to look for alternative options or improvements. If these cannot be provided a really strong case must be made. Cost is never, ever a justifiable reason.
This said designated crossing points with the strips would have been a cheaper easier solution, or even a really strong advertising campaign on the risks.
There were alternatives to the rubber strips, but I don't think they went far enough down that road. There only legal escape will have to be that in the initial risk assessment it was not seen as such a risk.
Personally, they haven't bothered me at all, but I had heard about the risk and am probably over confident in crossing and bunny hopping, something that could not be expected of everyone.

Chiparus

CramCycle wrote: »

And this will be there other legal issue, if the issue was highlighted as a H&S issue, and there was an alternative that would have improved H&S and they did not take that, it will be very hard for them to get out of it unless they can show they provided suitable and equivalent alternatives.
In any risk assessment, if you are provided with a risk that is considered substantial or regular, you have to look for alternative options or improvements. If these cannot be provided a really strong case must be made. Cost is never, ever a justifiable reason.
This said designated crossing points with the strips would have been a cheaper easier solution, or even a really strong advertising campaign on the risks.
There were alternatives to the rubber strips, but I don't think they went far enough down that road. There only legal escape will have to be that in the initial risk assessment it was not seen as such a risk.
Personally, they haven't bothered me at all, but I had heard about the risk and am probably over confident in crossing and bunny hopping, something that could not be expected of everyone.

The injuries, especial facial injuries to women is, I believe, one of the reasons so few women will cycle.
After the cross city was completed and the injuries stated to be apparent , DCC started to look at the issue, and one of their responses was that "cyclist dismount "sign be erected.

tomasrojo

CramCycle wrote: »

There only legal escape will have to be that in the initial risk assessment it was not seen as such a risk.

That's exactly it. They were told that the layout they were following was going to cause frequent falls, with traffic and trams following, and they went ahead anyway.

As for "getting used to infrastructure", there isn't any really to get used to. There are painted bits of the road on O'Connell Street that lead you directly to the worst possible angle to cross the tracks.

They did add a diversion around College Green after a few weeks, but it wasn't part of the original design. If they hadn't added that, they'd have even more lawsuits.

tomasrojo

Chiparus wrote: »

Submissions were made and chose to be ignored because it was too expensive.

They were also in a hurry to finish it. It was the only substantial public transport project that Varadkar approved when he was Minister for Transport, and Ross wanted it finished fast as well, mostly, presumably, because he perceived it would benefit his constituency, at the other end of the Green Line. He pulled engineers and funds out of all the cycling infrastructrue projects around the city to concentrate on the Luas.

tomasrojo

I think College Green got quite a few comments at the Velo-city conference. I'd be interested to see how delegates from Amsterdam felt it compared to how crossing points are handled there. Herbert Tiemens said some stuff about it on Twitter, I think.

CramCycle

Chiparus wrote: »

After the cross city was completed and the injuries stated to be apparent , DCC started to look at the issue, and one of their responses was that "cyclist dismount "sign be erected.

The signage response is the laziest but better than nothing, the big flaw there is that without an explanation as to why, or for how long, most will ignore it. The amount of cycle lane ended signs that stay up for months after a job is done, no one will pay it any heed.

tomasrojo wrote: »

They were also in a hurry to finish it. It was the only substantial public transport project that Varadkar approved when he was Minister for Transport, and Ross wanted it finished fast as well, mostly, presumably, because he perceived it would benefit his constituency, at the other end of the Green Line. He pulled engineers and funds out of all the cycling infrastructrue projects around the city to concentrate on the Luas.

And it yet again highlights the issue with the councils and TDs is they have so much input rather than giving an operations manager more control, it is a problem with Ireland (and many other "developed" countries), everything has to benefit, regardless of consequences elsewhere, within an election cycle, and it really just delays or flat out stops the game changers in regards infrastructure and social policy as they take time to bed in. This said with my views on the ineptitude here and elsewhere, in complete disagreement with my previous statement, I am coming closer and closer to the mindset that a totalitarian state with me at the top makes more and more sense despite my prior centre left leanings.

tomasrojo

Think this is Catalan:
https://twitter.com/esberginia/status/1145008463392755712

"Do they live in a cave?"

h/t @sinabhfuil on Twitter

magicbastarder

CramCycle wrote: »

it is a problem with Ireland (and many other "developed" countries), everything has to benefit, regardless of consequences elsewhere, within an election cycle, and it really just delays or flat out stops the game changers in regards infrastructure

i finally 'came out' to my neighbour who is organising local opposition to the metro plans near us. he took it well, to be fair; i'd been avoiding the topic (mainly in an email trail involving the local residents).
i'm distinctly unimpressed with one set of neighbours who moved into their place about two years ago and are getting involved with the opposition to it. am curious about what they expected.

Thinkingaboutit

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Just in terms of the make up thing - couldn't some women apply it whilst cycling just as many of them do whilst driving?

And checking social media /WhatsApp too at the same time. Women multitask.

magicbastarder

just a short mention re cycling:

How does Ireland’s public transport compare with other countries?

This year, just €3 out of every €100 you pay in tax will be spent on transport. The biggest portion of this – over €1 billion a year, or €1.43 of your €3 – goes on roads. Just 20 per cent of our transport budget goes into actual public transport – trains, buses, trams, metros, cycling infrastructure.

Out of your €100 in tax, this accounts for just €0.62. And out of that, just €0.06 goes on cycling or walking infrastructure, which is virtually non-existent in Ireland compared to the inter-city cycle paths of our UK and EU neighbours.Cycling and green campaigners have called for this curious division of funds to be rectified in order to offer alternatives to driving.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/consumer/how-does-ireland-s-public-transport-compare-with-other-countries-1.3936846

Thelonious Monk

There was yet another hit and run last night. Horrible for the person who died and his family. Pedestrians seem to be getting killed by car drivers regularly this year or maybe I'm just paying more attention.
What I don't understand is why these articles aren't followed by everyone freaking out about new restrictions for motorists, speed limits, helmets, etc., but any mention of cyclists in the news and people are foaming at the mouth.
They're not killing anyone. A minor nuisance at most.
What is wrong with society that cyclists are despised so much when they're not really causing any trouble, quite the opposite I would have thought?

blackwhite

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

There was yet another hit and run last night. Horrible for the person who died and his family. Pedestrians seem to be getting killed by car drivers regularly this year or maybe I'm just paying more attention.
What I don't understand is why these articles aren't followed by everyone freaking out about new restrictions for motorists, speed limits, helmets, etc., but any mention of cyclists in the news and people are foaming at the mouth.
They're not killing anyone. A minor nuisance at most.
What is wrong with society that cyclists are despised so much when they're not really causing any trouble, quite the opposite I would have thought?

A lot of reporting in the media this morning on the probability that this instance wasn't an "accidental" hit and run.

magicbastarder

i saw a tweet this morning about trees being cut down on the canal because a branch fell and nearly hit a woman.
the tweeter was asking why we don't take this approach with near misses between cars and pedestrians.

Chips Lovell

I think the safest thing to do would be just to ban pedestrians.

/rsaireland

Thelonious Monk

magicbastarder wrote: »

i saw a tweet this morning about trees being cut down on the canal because a branch fell and nearly hit a woman.
the tweeter was asking why we don't take this approach with near misses between cars and pedestrians.

Saw that too. We humans really don’t deserve this earth.

Fian

Its getting worse.

Bad enough that cars are autonomously colliding with cyclists. Now car door are also acting independently. ****'s scary. "edit: faeces is scary"

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/car-driver-ordered-to-pay-6k-to-cyclist-despite-claiming-he-was-not-at-accident-scene-38269878.html

THE driver of a car, whose door collided with a cyclist knocking him into the air and against a bus, has been ordered by a judge to pay the cyclist €6,000 damages despite the driver claiming he had not been present at the scene.

donvito99

Fian wrote: »

Its getting worse.

Bad enough that cars are autonomously colliding with cyclists. Now car door are also acting independently. ****'s scary. "edit: faeces is scary"

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/car-driver-ordered-to-pay-6k-to-cyclist-despite-claiming-he-was-not-at-accident-scene-38269878.html

This is like reporting that a woman was sexually assaulted despite not wearing a short skirt...

What Username Guidelines

donvito99 wrote: »

This is like reporting that a woman was sexually assaulted despite not wearing a short skirt...

Wait he was wearing BUT YET he still injured his shoulder?! Madness.

What Username Guidelines

Fian wrote: »

Its getting worse.

Bad enough that cars are autonomously colliding with cyclists. Now car door are also acting independently. ****'s scary. "edit: faeces is scary"

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/car-driver-ordered-to-pay-6k-to-cyclist-despite-claiming-he-was-not-at-accident-scene-38269878.html

Oddly enough tho, it’s a very strange story. Defence of “I wasn’t there” doesn’t seem like something you’d make up and think you’d get away with, odd that the address was incorrect.

Cabaal

What Username Guidelines wrote: »

Wait he was wearing BUT YET he still injured his shoulder?! Madness.

But.. But, they save lives!!

Seth Brundle

What Username Guidelines wrote: »

Oddly enough tho, it’s a very strange story. Defence of “I wasn’t there” doesn’t seem like something you’d make up and think you’d get away with, odd that the address was incorrect.

Should Mr Lancaster talk to his family about the event?

AndrewJRenko

donvito99 wrote: »

This is like reporting that a woman was sexually assaulted despite not wearing a short skirt...

Don't suppose anyone asked the driver why he was parked in a loading bay?


https://goo.gl/maps/TMJWZnJE3qaV2Feo8


Silly me - those oul parking rules aren't meant to be taken seriously.

magicbastarder

What Username Guidelines wrote: »

Wait he was wearing BUT YET he still injured his shoulder?! Madness.

clearly he would have been kilt outright had it not been for the helmet.

blackwhite

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Don't suppose anyone asked the driver why he was parked in a loading bay?


https://goo.gl/maps/TMJWZnJE3qaV2Feo8


Silly me - those oul parking rules aren't meant to be taken seriously.

To be fair to “whoever” was driving the car at the time - the article doesn’t state the time of the incident - so it could have well been outside of the 7-7 hours for that bay

Pinch Flat

Ah sure someday everyone will be doing the Dutch reach. The same day that pigs fly.