Journalism and cycling

amcalester

Tombo2001 wrote: »

I'll put it different.

Myself and a number of people I know have been done for penalty points at the same place - which is Conyngham Road, coming in, a long straight four lane road that is not residential, but is a 50k zone. Other similar roads are 60k around the city. Driving along there at 50k feels like crawling. Its a speed trap, literally, because it has the look and feel of a road with a higher speed limit.

Ditto those stretches of dual carriageway out of Dublin that are 80k limits.

Frequently, this is where speed camera set up as they are private operators (afaik) that are revenue driven. Dangerous driving isn't the issue, the issue is where will they get the highest volume of cars breaking the limit.

Over a three year time horizon, its certainly not that hard to rack up the points, if your commute is along this type of route.


On the other hand, you could be lashing along Dorset St or Camden St as fast you like - no way will you meet a speed camera there.

Ha, I was caught on Conyngham Road doing 61. I genuinely thought it was a 60 zone so I was annoyed until I drove it again and noticed the signs that I'd missed/ignored the first time. No complaints and it made me more aware of looking out for speed signs, so for someone to get caught another 3 times in 3 years after that, I wouldn't have much sympathy.

And FWIW, the private speed vans are not revenue targeted, they have to be set up for a set amount of time but there's no KPI/target for revenue generation in their contracts.

Eamonnator

magicbastarder wrote: »

if you get caught four times - given the level of enforcement of the road traffic laws - you really, really must be doing it a hell of a lot. i personally wouldn't have any issue with someone being put off the road in those circumstances.

I knew a taxi driver in Drogheda, who was caught for speeding four times on the same day. It was the first day penalty points were introduced. Gardai were out in force to make an impact.

Hurrache

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Frequently, this is where speed camera set up as they are private operators (afaik) that are revenue driven.

They aren't.

Tombo2001

amcalester wrote: »

Ha, I was caught on Conyngham Road doing 61. I genuinely thought it was a 60 zone so I was annoyed until I drove it again and noticed the signs that I'd missed/ignored the first time. No complaints and it made me more aware of looking out for speed signs, so for someone to get caught another 3 times in 3 years after that, I wouldn't have much sympathy.

And FWIW, the private speed vans are not revenue targeted, they have to be set up for a set amount of time but there's no KPI/target for revenue generation in their contracts.[/QUOTE]

Why are they always in the same spots?

I have commuted through Alfie Byrne road and Drumcondra Road for several years.

The speeds you see cars do can be quite staggering but I cant once, ever remember a speed trap in place there. Conversely, they are on Conyngham Road the whole time.

Ray Bloody Purchase

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Why are they always in the same spots?

.

I heard (anecdotally) that often they are situated where there has previously been a fatal crash. This does ring true as they are constantly on a quiet stretch of road down home in Galway where three people were killed in a two vehicle collision.

The frequency of use of the road and indeed the layout has changed subsequently due to the new Galway-Dublin motorway, yet the speedvan remains in the same spot.

amcalester

Ray Bloody Purchase wrote: »

I heard (anecdotally) that often they are situated where there has previously been a fatal crash. This does ring true as they are constantly on a quiet stretch of road down home in Galway where three people were killed in a two vehicle collision.

The frequency of use of the road and indeed the layout has changed subsequently due to the new Galway-Dublin motorway, yet the speedvan remains in the same spot.

Yeah, I've heard it said on the radio that the private speed vans are placed on roads that have had serious or fatal collisions on them and can only be set up between the Speed Camera signs that are displayed on the road.

Garda speed checks can be set up anywhere, but the private ones are literally signposted.

CramCycle

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Myself and a number of people I know have been done for penalty points at the same place - which is Conyngham Road, coming in, a long straight four lane road that is not residential, but is a 50k zone. Other similar roads are 60k around the city. Driving along there at 50k feels like crawling. Its a speed trap, literally, because it has the look and feel of a road with a higher speed limit.

But if your paying attention, the signs say 50kmph, and presumably after the first fine, you learn your lesson?

Ditto those stretches of dual carriageway out of Dublin that are 80k limits.

80kmph is quite fast, it may not feel it but it is a decent clip, and in many places due to residential roads and houses nearby, far too high.

Frequently, this is where speed camera set up as they are private operators (afaik) that are revenue driven. Dangerous driving isn't the issue, the issue is where will they get the highest volume of cars breaking the limit.

The Gardai or the GoSafe crowd make no more money out of it if they catch 1 or 100 per day, in fact the scheme has been run at a loss since inception AFAIK Typical politicians pulled the Garda Commisioner in front of a review panel to give out to her, and when she said its cause we were safer than expected, they gave out to her. Regretably none of them had the guts to point out the obvious that they are so predictable on certain stretches, a driver knows where and for how llong to drive under the limit to avoid detection.

Over a three year time horizon, its certainly not that hard to rack up the points, if your commute is along this type of route.

This is the problem and the reason why you get a few goes of it. If you get caught 4 times in a period of 3 years, you deserve to be put off the road as your paying such little attention and learning so little that it is clear and evident that no amount of education will fix you.

On the other hand, you could be lashing along Dorset St or Camden St as fast you like - which would be dangerous driving - no way will you meet a speed camera there.

But it is far rarer to have the opportunity to do so, although Id be infavour of average speed cameras across the city to help catch this out.

Eamonnator wrote: »

I knew a taxi driver in Drogheda, who was caught for speeding four times on the same day. It was the first day penalty points were introduced. Gardai were out in force to make an impact.

Two issues here, first, it was the first day of enforcement in a heavily publicised event, the fact that a professional driver couldn't see the risk or continued regardless says more about the fact that he should not be driving at all than anything else. Secondly, point one again, FFS, while risk of being captured is minimal now , back then it was guaranteed that if you were on the roads for more than 50km, you would see a speed check or similar. People like this should have their license revoked for a minimum of 5 years with a higher standard of driving test applied on reapplication. A friend got done twice on the first day, either side of the same village, both marginally over the limit. Well deserved, it reminded me of the Gardai who used to give you a warning but then follow you a few minutes later to see had you listened, if you were being mannerly, they gave you a wave, if you were breaking the same rules again, it was a day in court for your stupidity. It sounds terrible but I am beginning to think that the only way to rid the roads of stupidity is to punish people repeatedly until they either can no longer do it or they learn their lesson.

amcalester

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Why are they always in the same spots?

I have commuted through Alfie Byrne road and Drumcondra Road for several years.

The speeds you see cars do can be quite staggering but I cant once, ever remember a speed trap in place there. Conversely, they are on Conyngham Road the whole time.

No idea, could be issues with finding a suitable spot on Drumcondra Road and the same for other roads that are more obviously dangerous.

No point cause an incident when trying to prevent them.

Budawanny

amcalester wrote: »

Tombo2001 wrote: »

No idea, could be issues with finding a suitable spot on Drumcondra Road and the same for other roads that are more obviously dangerous.

No point cause an incident when trying to prevent them.

The Gardaí define the zones that the go safe vans are monitoring, based on
collision data from pulse. The zones that are monitored are clearly marked with Signs, and are available on line here. http://https://www.garda.ie/images_upload/en/Traffic/Safety-camera-locations/Safety-Cameras-map.JPG

However as I have witnessed driving to Mayo , the absence of go safe vans is not the absence of detection. There are traffic core, there are unmarked garda cars. although admittedly the chances of detection in Dublin appear to be very very low.

Macy0161

amcalester wrote: »

Tombo2001 wrote: »

No idea, could be issues with finding a suitable spot on Drumcondra Road and the same for other roads that are more obviously dangerous.

They could always block the footpath and cycle lane, like the gardai speed van has been known to do in the past on the N11 around Foxrock...

My local one is in a stupid spot, based off a single incident. However, it's pretty much just a test of local knowledge rather than a speed trap. Even the days of the week it's there is pretty consistent.

The ideal would be average speed camera's on the main two or three routes in and out of the village(s). The bit with the (routinely ignored by motorist) zebra crossing and other crossing points, often narrowed with illegally parked vehicles, are where I routinely witness speeding with even more risk to VRU's than where it is placed.

Tombo2001

CramCycle wrote: »

But if your paying attention, the signs say 50kmph, and presumably after the first fine, you learn your lesson?

80kmph is quite fast, it may not feel it but it is a decent clip, and in many places due to residential roads and houses nearby, far too high.

The Gardai or the GoSafe crowd make no more money out of it if they catch 1 or 100 per day, in fact the scheme has been run at a loss since inception AFAIK Typical politicians pulled the Garda Commisioner in front of a review panel to give out to her, and when she said its cause we were safer than expected, they gave out to her. Regretably none of them had the guts to point out the obvious that they are so predictable on certain stretches, a driver knows where and for how llong to drive under the limit to avoid detection.

This is the problem and the reason why you get a few goes of it. If you get caught 4 times in a period of 3 years, you deserve to be put off the road as your paying such little attention and learning so little that it is clear and evident that no amount of education will fix you.
But it is far rarer to have the opportunity to do so, although Id be infavour of average speed cameras across the city to help catch this out.


Two issues here, first, it was the first day of enforcement in a heavily publicised event, the fact that a professional driver couldn't see the risk or continued regardless says more about the fact that he should not be driving at all than anything else. Secondly, point one again, FFS, while risk of being captured is minimal now , back then it was guaranteed that if you were on the roads for more than 50km, you would see a speed check or similar. People like this should have their license revoked for a minimum of 5 years with a higher standard of driving test applied on reapplication. A friend got done twice on the first day, either side of the same village, both marginally over the limit. Well deserved, it reminded me of the Gardai who used to give you a warning but then follow you a few minutes later to see had you listened, if you were being mannerly, they gave you a wave, if you were breaking the same rules again, it was a day in court for your stupidity. It sounds terrible but I am beginning to think that the only way to rid the roads of stupidity is to punish people repeatedly until they either can no longer do it or they learn their lesson.

Two points - again I know its not an excuse etc etc......I do feel there aren't enough speed limit signs on Irish roads; many's the time I am driving along and it occurs to me that I'm not sure what the speed limit is on a given road, and you can be waiting a long time for a sign that tells you......just sayin'...

As for the other point - 80k of course is fast, so is 60k and 50k and so is 40k......however, relatively speaking, I think its fair to say there are inconsistencies regarding speed limits on Irish roads............

randomname2005

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Two points - again I know its not an excuse etc etc......I do feel there aren't enough speed limit signs on Irish roads; many's the time I am driving along and it occurs to me that I'm not sure what the speed limit is on a given road, and you can be waiting a long time for a sign that tells you......just sayin'...

Agree, needs to be more on certain stretches, especially when overgrown hedges obscure some of them, and the national sport of sign turning is strong in a region.

Kop Idol

Maybe we are making some headway ? The Indo actually posts an article giving a cyclist's point of view :eek:

Very attention grabbing title.

https://www.independent.ie/life/motoring/car-news/stick-to-the-left-you-stupid-bh-the-realities-of-cycling-in-dublin-37785319.html

magicbastarder

i think that was sent in to dublin cycling campaign as a reaction to 'that' article by the RSA.
obviously it's gained legs.

What Username Guidelines

Kop Idol wrote: »

Maybe we are making some headway ? The Indo actually posts an article giving a cyclist's point of view :eek:

Very attention grabbing title.

https://www.independent.ie/life/motoring/car-news/stick-to-the-left-you-stupid-bh-the-realities-of-cycling-in-dublin-37785319.html

Gotta love the usual comments on the article on Facebook. But this absolute beauty:

I remember coming up a narrow road, having to pass a cyclist. A few cars were coming towards me in the opposite direction and I was squeezed in to the hedge with a cyclist at my passenger side rear. Every time I tried to slow down the cyclist got more stuck. Nightmare. He banged the car with his fist.

magicbastarder

spotted on twitter (posted by ciaran ferrie); a podcast about the AA and RTE.

https://blog.hereshow.ie/2019/02/heres-how-82-rte-and-the-aa/

it's 55 minutes long.

Pinch Flat

What Username Guidelines wrote: »

Gotta love the usual comments on the article on Facebook. But this absolute beauty:

You’d wonder is that written in earnest or is she genuinely thick.

magicbastarder

magicbastarder wrote: »

spotted on twitter (posted by ciaran ferrie); a podcast about the AA and RTE.

https://blog.hereshow.ie/2019/02/heres-how-82-rte-and-the-aa/

it's 55 minutes long.

This is a frustrating. A large part of it is a simple replaying of a phone conversation he had with an RTE bod which doesn't add to the argument he's making except to allow him repeat his points, and really just serves to make him come across as if he's made up his mind and won't allow anything to change that. Which is a pity because he does make many good points.

mr spuckler

magicbastarder wrote: »

This is a frustrating. A large part of it is a simple replaying of a phone conversation he had with an RTE bod which doesn't add to the argument he's making except to allow him repeat his points, and really just serves to make him come across as if he's made up his mind and won't allow anything to change that. Which is a pity because he does make many good points.

the premise of the podcast is actually very intriguing but jesus he doesn't handle that conversation with the RTE person well. plus, shouldn't he have told the guy that he was being recorded?

magicbastarder

in the text below, he justifies not telling the chap that the call is being recorded. or attempts to justify, anyway.

buffalo

mr spuckler wrote: »

the premise of the podcast is actually very intriguing but jesus he doesn't handle that conversation with the RTE person well. plus, shouldn't he have told the guy that he was being recorded?

From memory, it's legal in Ireland to record a phone conversation that you are having with someone else. It's not legal to record a phone conversation between two other people.

Ethically speaking, it's a different kettle of fish obviously. But from the amount of emailing he seems to have done, getting any kind of specific answers on record appears to be impossible.

Duckjob

Kop Idol wrote: »

Maybe we are making some headway ? The Indo actually posts an article giving a cyclist's point of view :eek:

Very attention grabbing title.

https://www.independent.ie/life/motoring/car-news/stick-to-the-left-you-stupid-bh-the-realities-of-cycling-in-dublin-37785319.html

It's very identifiable with for anyone who's spent any road time on a bike in recent times.

My own impression is that the cyclist-bashing culture is so prevelent now that the rights or wrongs of a situation are not important anymore, which is that the article is stating also. In other words, for a certain subset of drivers, it doesnt matter that you're doing something completely legally on the road - if you are in front of them you are "holding them up" and fair game for abuse.


Example 1 from a couple of weeks ago; Got roared at (with abuse in the opening exchange) while on the roundabout outside the airport that I "wasn't allowed on the motorway, y' f***n d**khead!"

Example 2 from this week: Stopped to turn right into my local supermarket, A narrow road so some cars had to stop behind me. A perfectly legal maneuvre (well signalled in advance etc) and yet a driver behind lays on the horn.

Grassey

Duckjob wrote:

Example 2 from this week: Stopped to turn right into my local supermarket, A narrow road so some cars had to stop behind me. A perfectly legal maneuvre (well signalled in advance etc) and yet a driver behind lays on the horn.

And they'd have no issue with waiting more than a minute behind a car doing the same. I guess the only difference being they can see past you to a 'clear road' while a car will obscure the road ahead.

I'm noticing more that there is a serious 'need' to hit max speed when a straight stretch of urban road is in front of cars these days, even if its only 200m to lights etc.

Pinch Flat

Grassey wrote: »

And they'd have no issue with waiting more than a minute behind a car doing the same. I guess the only difference being they can see past you to a 'clear road' while a car will obscure the road ahead.

I'm noticing more that there is a serious 'need' to hit exceed max speed when a straight stretch of urban road is in front of cars these days, even if its only 200m to lights etc.

It's the motorists way of teaching you a lesson. Had some tool behind me on a narrow country road in West Dublin this morning, I;m chipping along at 30kph, taking primary (there's not enough room to pass me safely with ongoing traffic, a school entrance and a lights about 300 meters in front. Earliest opportunity, he guns it past me, accelerates heavily towards the red light. I'm guessing he hit well in excess of the 50kph limit while doing this.

Duckjob

Grassey wrote: »

I'm noticing more that there is a serious 'need' to hit max speed when a straight stretch of urban road is in front of cars these days, even if its only 200m to lights etc.

I call it "self-important perpetual hurry" syndrome

Fighting Tao

Grassey wrote: »

And they'd have no issue with waiting more than a minute behind a car doing the same. I guess the only difference being they can see past you to a 'clear road' while a car will obscure the road ahead.

I'm noticing more that there is a serious 'need' to hit max speed when a straight stretch of urban road is in front of cars these days, even if its only 200m to lights etc.

It’s known as “Smallus Dickus syndrome”. Basically they are so busy staring at your crotch in Lycra that they realise how small theirs is and so have to show who the boss is.

Fighting Tao

Duckjob wrote: »

It's very identifiable with for anyone who's spent any road time on a bike in recent times.

My own impression is that the cyclist-bashing culture is so prevelent now that the rights or wrongs of a situation are not important anymore, which is that the article is stating also. In other words, for a certain subset of drivers, it doesnt matter that you're doing something completely legally on the road - if you are in front of them you are "holding them up" and fair game for abuse.


Example 1 from a couple of weeks ago; Got roared at (with abuse in the opening exchange) while on the roundabout outside the airport that I "wasn't allowed on the motorway, y' f***n d**khead!"

Example 2 from this week: Stopped to turn right into my local supermarket, A narrow road so some cars had to stop behind me. A perfectly legal maneuvre (well signalled in advance etc) and yet a driver behind lays on the horn.

For the blaring of the horn, get off your bike making sure the car can’t pass and inspect the bike because they are obviously trying to highlight some issue that you are not aware of. Take a couple of minutes properly inspecting the bike for best effect.

Duckjob

Fighting Tao wrote: »

For the blaring of the horn, get off your bike making sure the car can’t pass and inspect the bike because they are obviously trying to highlight some issue that you are not aware of. Take a couple of minutes properly inspecting the bike for best effect.

Sounds good but in the current climate I'd be half expecting to get my bike run over (and maybe me too) if I did that. Attitudes really are that toxic out there

Pinch Flat

Fighting Tao wrote: »

For the blaring of the horn, get off your bike making sure the car can’t pass and inspect the bike because they are obviously trying to highlight some issue that you are not aware of. Take a couple of minutes properly inspecting the bike for best effect.

Any one beeps me from behind triggers an involuntary reflex to freewheel.

tomasrojo

magicbastarder wrote: »

spotted on twitter (posted by ciaran ferrie); a podcast about the AA and RTE.

https://blog.hereshow.ie/2019/02/heres-how-82-rte-and-the-aa/

it's 55 minutes long.

I found that very interesting. I had heard the previous podcast, where he'd brought up AA Roadwatch with Donal Byrne of RTÉ, so I was familiar with the basic argument, which he has been pursuing for literally years.

I can't fault his basic logic about the rules being flouted (AA Roadwatch is effectively sponsored content, but the sponsor is also providing the content, and on top of that is a campaigning body).

The interview with Dr. Michael Foley where he expresses surprise that the Broadcasting Authority hasn't intervened was better than the surreptitiously recorded conversation, but even the latter was interesting in places. And RTÉ aren't exactly undermining the podcast's premise by so obviously refusing to define what AA Roadwatch is.