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Where would you like to see next LUAS line/extension?

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  • 23-09-2016 10:53am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 2,054 ✭✭✭


    If we were lucky enough to get another line or an extension where would you like to see it?
    I've heard extension of xcity to Finglas could be a runner...would chapelizod /lucan be better?


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    Zipppy wrote: »
    If we were lucky enough to get another line or an extension where would you like to see it?
    I've heard extension of xcity to Finglas could be a runner...would chapelizod /lucan be better?

    Lucan has a high quality bus lane all the way to the quays, and is lucky enough to have very frequent bus services (25a and b) that bypass Chapelizod (why the much longer 66 or 67 routes weren't chosen to bypass Chapelizod is still a mystery to those of us that use them), so no I think Lucan is well enough served.

    I would prefer to see some sort of orbital service, bus or tram, that would mitigate against the An Lár-ism inherent in Dublin's public transport. It'd be nice for those in Lucan not to have to travel to the city centre to go to Tallaght etc etc


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,205 ✭✭✭✭hmmm


    The North West could do with a line heading somewhere. Blanchardstown/Ongar/Ballyer direction perhaps. The bus strike is really highlighting how bus dependent some areas are.

    Lucan is an obvious choice considering the number of people living there. There are some decent bus lanes in that direction, but there are still several chokepoints where buses get caught leading to unpredictable journey times.

    Orbital would be great, but perhaps needs to be backed up by good P&R locations.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,681 ✭✭✭AngryLips


    I'd love to see a George's Street/Capel Street alignment for Luas, with the very original plans for Ballymun luas to be realised


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 111 ✭✭curiousoranje


    No more money wasted on Luas extensions would be my preference. The service is already insufferably slow as it is. Proper rail/underground is the only way to go. Now or never.

    Luas extensions are just expensive band aids covering the woeful public transport problems in Dublin.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,398 ✭✭✭StreetLight


    Deedsie wrote: »
    Broombridge through Finglas to an M50 adjacent park and ride car park would be a good idea. Couldn't be that expensive, disruption shouldn't be that bad either.

    I would go even further, through Ballymun and on to the Airport.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,363 ✭✭✭✭Del.Monte


    No more money wasted on Luas extensions would be my preference. The service is already insufferably slow as it is. Proper rail/underground is the only way to go. Now or never.

    Luas extensions are just expensive band aids covering the woeful public transport problems in Dublin.

    You're just trolling right?

    The Green Luas line should continue via the old Harcourt Street alignment and then run parallel to the DART into Bray.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,547 ✭✭✭✭MJohnston


    Here's my vague impression of which parts of Dublin and surroundings are covered by what I'd call frequent, high-quality PT services (I'd put Luas and DART in this bucket out of what we have), with the inclusion of the potential electrified Maynooth line (presuming that bumps up frequencies):

    tf6VWS1.png

    Very rough, but the shaded areas are intended to show areas that are within a 15 minute drive of a Park and Ride facility (most of the DART stations, a handful of Luas stations), or within a 15/20 minute walk of the stations of, one of those services. Without the Maynooth line, you can see how dismally served the north west portion of the Dublin area is (even with the addition of that service, very few of the stations offer car parking).

    And the problem is that a lot of that land is being developed as new residential areas, without any consideration of how people living there are going to get to work. Thus - housing crisis deepens.

    What we need:
    + Metro North, no ifs or buts - Swords isn't shown on my map, but it's outside of any of the catchment areas mentioned.
    + A very short extension of the Luas Green Line (could probably do with a renaming to a new line colour for the northern half if this happened) from Broombridge through Finglas, heading up along Cappagh Road just past the M50, and then ending in a massive Park and Ride facility at Blanchardstown.
    + Maynooth DART and provision of actual Park and Ride facilities along this line (at the very least sharing with the Blanchardstown Luas PNR mentioned above)

    Nice to have:
    + Luas Lucan to cover the 9 o'clock gap in the 'clockface'.
    + Something for Terenure and the R114/115 corridor.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 111 ✭✭curiousoranje


    Del.Monte wrote: »
    You're just trolling right?

    The Green Luas line should continue via the old Harcourt Street alignment and then run parallel to the DART into Bray.

    Not trolling at all. Have had to take Luas from The Square Tallaght-Connolly every day of this bus strike so far and I find it irritatingly slow. It never gets going. It is a poor, ham fisted choice for connecting outer suburbs like Tallaght, Lucan etc to City Centre. Luas to Airport as someone suggested would be even worse.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    MJohnston wrote: »
    + Luas Lucan to cover the 9 o'clock gap in the 'clockface'.

    You left out the upcoming Phoenix Park tunnel rail services. But as I said above, buses from Lucan running in the N4 only hit lights at Palmerstown and then it's an almost free run as far as the quays. The N4 is the only dual carriage way (with bus lanes) that runs straight into the quays.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭Carawaystick


    Busses using the M50 only have 3 sets of lights and the toll to get to the quays, and while not dual carriageway, it is S4 to the Quays also.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,203 ✭✭✭✭Dodge


    n97 mini wrote: »
    You left out the upcoming Phoenix Park tunnel rail services. But as I said above, buses from Lucan running in the N4 only hit lights at Palmerstown and then it's an almost free run as far as the quays. The N4 is the only dual carriage way (with bus lanes) that runs straight into the quays.

    In the mornings, it's an hour from Lucan into the quays.

    Lights or not, an alternative would be used


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,379 ✭✭✭Shedite27


    Metro North.
    Elctrification of the Maynooth line and rebrand it the "Dart".
    Then create a spur line from the Dart north to go into Swords.
    Then the luas Line E (Terenure) & F (Lucan) from the plans


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    Dodge wrote: »
    In the mornings, it's an hour from Lucan into the quays.

    Lights or not, an alternative would be used

    The Palmerstown lights really should be done away with.

    On the plus side, for those within the catchment area Adamstown to Heuston is very quick, sometimes less than 20 mins. Free parking at Adamstown too.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,844 ✭✭✭Banjoxed


    Extending the Luas to Bray from Brides Glen is an easy build as the detailed design work has already been done. For those having a mickey fit about long tram routes it will serve a distinct market from North Wicklow to Sandyford and Dundrum.


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,998 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Del.Monte wrote: »
    You're just trolling right?

    The Green Luas line should continue via the old Harcourt Street alignment and then run parallel to the DART into Bray.


    no no . wait until the infrastructure needs replacing, rip it up, re-instate a heavy rail line, and undo the wrong that was allowed to happen when the original line (whatever about being closed) was completely destroyed. more chance of me becoming taoiseach then that happening though. would require a bit of demolition but would be worth it.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,583 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    MJohnston wrote: »
    Here's my vague impression of which parts of Dublin and surroundings are covered by what I'd call frequent, high-quality PT services (I'd put Luas and DART in this bucket out of what we have), with the inclusion of the potential electrified Maynooth line (presuming that bumps up frequencies):

    tf6VWS1.png

    Very rough, but the shaded areas are intended to show areas that are within a 15 minute drive of a Park and Ride facility (most of the DART stations, a handful of Luas stations), or within a 15/20 minute walk of the stations of, one of those services. Without the Maynooth line, you can see how dismally served the north west portion of the Dublin area is (even with the addition of that service, very few of the stations offer car parking).

    And the problem is that a lot of that land is being developed as new residential areas, without any consideration of how people living there are going to get to work. Thus - housing crisis deepens.

    What we need:
    + Metro North, no ifs or buts - Swords isn't shown on my map, but it's outside of any of the catchment areas mentioned.
    + A very short extension of the Luas Green Line (could probably do with a renaming to a new line colour for the northern half if this happened) from Broombridge through Finglas, heading up along Cappagh Road just past the M50, and then ending in a massive Park and Ride facility at Blanchardstown.
    + Maynooth DART and provision of actual Park and Ride facilities along this line (at the very least sharing with the Blanchardstown Luas PNR mentioned above)

    Nice to have:
    + Luas Lucan to cover the 9 o'clock gap in the 'clockface'.
    + Something for Terenure and the R114/115 corridor.

    Good map but it would be worth seeing separate walking and driving maps. Many people don't have the option to drive so a walking map would be good. That would make the coverage a lot narrower.

    And surely at least some of the N11 corridor should be included? Continuous bus lanes with probably the highest frequency bus services of any corridor?


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,547 ✭✭✭✭MJohnston


    lxflyer wrote: »
    Good map but it would be worth seeing separate walking and driving maps. Many people don't have the option to drive so a walking map would be good. That would make the coverage a lot narrower.

    And surely at least some of the N11 corridor should be included? Continuous bus lanes with probably the highest frequency bus services of any corridor?

    I shaded a walking distance on each route, you can see it as the more opaque shaded areas closer into the lines.

    Not very familiar with the N11 bus service though it wouldn't really change the map much as that area is under the DART line area shaded for park and ride (which unfortunately you can barely see).


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,670 ✭✭✭IE 222


    The final piece missing in luas at the moment is rail connection. Broombridge is a start but more Dart construction needs to take place and then fill in the blanks with Luas.

    Do away with this Metro idea altogether, every other country I know of runs airport services into there current rail network and not a separate unit. What good is metro that just stops in the city. Use dart and connect into current network. With Dart Underground and some sort of connection on the Metro alignment serving swords it will open up the whole rail system with limited mode changes.

    I think an express Luas line could go through the phoenix park (cut out many stops) and branch one line to Lucan and a second to Blancardstown from Connolly.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,679 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    Any further Luas lines need to have additional lines into the city center and not continuing to pile more trams onto existing networks. Should be no more routes linked onto any station between CC and Sandyford and James. By all means use existing lines further out.

    I do think finishing the Green Line off to Bray would be best value for money.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,260 ✭✭✭markpb


    IE 222 wrote:
    Do away with this Metro idea altogether, every other country I know of runs airport services into there current rail network and not a separate unit.

    Madrid airport is served by metro to the city centre. The airport served 48 million passengers last year so it seems to be doing okay.

    Luas carries the same number of passengers as Dart and connects to the dart and intercity rail network so I don't see why you consider it a separate unit.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,636 ✭✭✭feargale


    n97 mini wrote: »
    I would prefer to see some sort of orbital service, bus or tram, that would mitigate against the An Lár-ism inherent in Dublin's public transport. It'd be nice for those in Lucan not to have to travel to the city centre to go to Tallaght etc etc

    That would be eminently possible if when building the M50 they had left a hole in the middle of it to accomodate a future metro. But that couldn't be done because a future government might get the credit.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,877 ✭✭✭trellheim


    Nice map.

    Perhaps a steam tram out to Blessington from Terenure ( rats where's my time machine :) ) but I take the point.

    Very little room to stick a tram line templeogue/terenure into town without huge disruption and cutting into a bunch of important bus lanes

    As for a DART Spur you'd need a savage re-engineering of the Northern line to fit the services in for it to make it better than the bus.

    MN recognized that Swords needs to be served as well so its actually correct to be metro !


  • Registered Users Posts: 163 ✭✭Fastpud


    Here is something I did a few years back - it shows all current rail lines & Luas routes and any planned or proposed lines. Just updated it to include Luas Crosscity. You need google earth installed, launch google earth and then just file open and select the Dublin rail.KMZ from where you saved it


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    markpb wrote: »
    Madrid airport is served by metro to the city centre. The airport served 48 million passengers last year so it seems to be doing okay.

    Luas carries the same number of passengers as Dart and connects to the dart and intercity rail network so I don't see why you consider it a separate unit.

    Some airports in the US are served by on-street metro networks, e.g. Salt Lake City's TRAX. The airport serves about 22 million passengers a year so is close to Dublin in size. The TRAX also has extensive P+R carparks, and all are free. They recently introduced unlimited stay parking to encourage people to park up and get the train to the airport. That's what happens when you have joined up thinking.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,670 ✭✭✭IE 222


    markpb wrote: »
    Madrid airport is served by metro to the city centre. The airport served 48 million passengers last year so it seems to be doing okay.

    Luas carries the same number of passengers as Dart and connects to the dart and intercity rail network so I don't see why you consider it a separate unit.

    You're right and so does London and a few others but they also have a full Metro or Tube network in place. We don't, the Dart is are answer to Metro or Tube netwok but instead we purpose building one seprate line between swords and St. Stephens Green requiring more mode changes. It will be only built and we start talking having to extend it.

    They Connect in 2 places currently on the same lines. I wouldn't call that opening up or connecting the whole city. Look at Madrid as you suggest and see how many different lines connect together and connect numerous times in different locations.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,670 ✭✭✭IE 222


    trellheim wrote: »
    Nice map.

    Perhaps a steam tram out to Blessington from Terenure ( rats where's my time machine :) ) but I take the point.

    Very little room to stick a tram line templeogue/terenure into town without huge disruption and cutting into a bunch of important bus lanes

    As for a DART Spur you'd need a savage re-engineering of the Northern line to fit the services in for it to make it better than the bus.

    MN recognized that Swords needs to be served as well so its actually correct to be metro !

    Terenure Luas will never happen overground. To expensive and requires an awful lot CPOs and other land purchases in some of the most expensive parts of the city. More chance of it running underground if anything. Maybe if tunnelling of Dart and airport / Swords takes place it may not be seen as such of non runner cost wise.

    Northern line needs upgrading without the spur been added so would be cost effective including a spur with these works. The spur needs to serve Swords as well.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,877 ✭✭✭trellheim


    This is why the Sunday Times article today "only 200 million for the Airport spur" needs to be treated as the complete poo it is and just spoiling by IE

    MN must go ahead and capital funding plans must start putting capex plans in place for it. Interesting to see the budget in a few weeks cos Dublin Airport needs it .


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,425 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    trellheim wrote: »
    This is why the Sunday Times article today "only 200 million for the Airport spur" needs to be treated as the complete poo it is and just spoiling by IE

    MN must go ahead and capital funding plans must start putting capex plans in place for it. Interesting to see the budget in a few weeks cos Dublin Airport needs it .

    Even if they started construction on MN in the near future, it would take several years (4 or 5) before you could travel from SSG to the airport. Aside from the planning for the Clongriffin spur, it could be built in a year or so from start of construction.

    The spur does not preclude MN, it is the politics of the issue that does that.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,260 ✭✭✭markpb


    The spur does not preclude MN, it is the politics of the issue that does that.

    Is there a thing more likely to block a large infrastructure spend than politics?


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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,425 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    markpb wrote: »
    Is there a thing more likely to block a large infrastructure spend than politics?

    Yes, vested interest.

    DAA want revenue from car parks and charges for bus and coach stands. Politicians look for support from their own NIMBYs. Politicians also want to push their own parish pump, and there are more parish pumps in rural Ireland than in Dublin, so Luas for Dungarvin and Caherciveen and Motorways from Tuam to Foxford.

    Dublin requires substantial investment in public transport - and not just a fleet of shiny blue double-deckers.


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