Did you hear about the Irishwoman in prison in Iran?

Gatling

Ilovemybricks wrote: »

I am a native Irish person. I hold Irish citizenship. She's an Iranian Canadian that's never lived here and doesn't have any Irish ancestry. It's absurd that such a person has citizenship.

Again she did live here with her now deceased Irish husband

Ilovemybricks

Grayson wrote: »

You said earned. My point is that you haven't earned it. You got it because you were born here and/or your parents were irish.

I have mine because my parents were Irish. I didn't earn it either. I had Irish citizenship before I ever set foot here. I got it through a right I inherited. She got it through marrying an Irish citizen. You could say that she's actually done more than either of us since she actually did something rather than just existing like we did.

She earned it by marrying an Irish chap?

She's done nothing. She's never even lived here! She's not Irish in anyway. It's ridiculous that we gave this Iranian Canadian citizenship and if there's anyway that it can be rescinded then the Minister should do just that.

Grayson

Ilovemybricks wrote: »

She earned it by marrying an Irish chap?

She's done nothing. She's never even lived here! She's not Irish in anyway. It's ridiculous that we gave this Iranian Canadian citizenship and if there's anyway that it can be rescinded then the Minister should do just that.

The point is that I hadn't lived here and I was an irish citizen.

Ilovemybricks

Grayson wrote: »

The point is that I hadn't lived here and I was an irish citizen.

I wouldn't cry too much if you didn't. Fact is, there's absolutely nothing Irish about this women and it's absurd to suggest otherwise. Now the Department have to deal with another mess. Just like in Egypt and in Florida.

ohnonotgmail

So what are the canadians doing to help their citizen and resident?

feargale

Ilovemybricks wrote: »

She didn't earn her citizenship. She married a Paddy and got it.

And pray, what did you do to earn citizenship apart from being born to an Irish citizen? You have a strange concept of family if you think a person ought not to share their spouse's citizenship. So, if you marry a Spaniard who becomes the co-parent of your kids, and your spouse becomes a victim of a foreign tyranny, the Irish state should say hump your OH?

Ilovemybricks wrote: »

They're now divorced.

1. Link please.
2. Relevance please.


You seem hell bent on leaving this lady friendless as she languishes in Iranian jail on secret charges without visiting rights. What would it cost us to protest?

Ilovemybricks

Marrying an Irish citizen shouldn't mean you qualify for Irish citizenship! If I marry a Spaniards and live in Canada, why the hell should I receive Spanish citizenship? I'm not Spanish.

Foreign tyranny? This woman is an Iranian in an Iranian jail. It's absolutely none of our concern. We are not the world police and if we can right a wrong and rescind her citizenship, then do so.

suicide_circus

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

What?

Iran is a lovely welcoming country now, with great food (no drink lol, but there are ways!) and great things to see.

And in addition, the ladies only have a half scarf, their hair is shown, not like a hijab.

The thin end of the wedge is the introduction of full hijab there, but I can't see that happening.

Looks like a fab country to visit.

They hang people for being gay. Since a woman cannot be executed if she is a virgin under Sharia law, the usual practice is to have the revolutionary guard gang rape her so she can be executed without offending Allah (peace be upon him). That's to say nothing of the murder of political activists, suppression of journalists and all round horror show credentials. Fooking cesspit.

darkpagandeath

captbarnacles wrote: »

Iran don't recognise dual nationality so afaik so won't make much difference.

Tell that to the lads family with problems in Egypt. Where is EOTR on this issue ?

evolving_doors

Grayson wrote: »

You said earned. My point is that you haven't earned it. You got it because you were born here and/or your parents were irish.

I have mine because my parents were Irish. I didn't earn it either. I had Irish citizenship before I ever set foot here. I got it through a right I inherited. She got it through marrying an Irish citizen. You could say that she's actually done more than either of us since she actually did something rather than just existing like we did.

*** you man, I just put out the bins..again!

Ya but seriously. If she has the citizenship then she's an Irish citizen. Don't see many Irish folk complaining when the Granny rule is played in soccer, or when 'true' Irish folk are in trouble the only available consulate in a country is the British Embassy.
Remember when CJH sold off our citizenship to rich arabs. Anyone mind then?
Or it's all lovely on St. Patties day when everyone is Irish, but hey, that's only once a year so don't be gettin notions above yer station.

Stoogie

Two thoughts spring to mind
1, she is a woman accused of secret crimes in a scary country and it seems, taking people here at face value, that we should be looking for a reason to help her rather than a reason not to help her.

2, separate to the above would it not be interesting to know what passport she travels under, I have always felt that the Irish passport is one to be proud to travel under.

Ilovemybricks

Gebgbegb wrote: »

*** you man, I just put out the bins..again!

Ya but seriously. If she has the citizenship then she's an Irish citizen. Don't see many Irish folk complaining when the Granny rule is played in soccer, or when 'true' Irish folk are in trouble the only available consulate in a country is the British Embassy.
Remember when CJH sold off our citizenship to rich arabs. Anyone mind then?
Or it's all lovely on St. Patties day when everyone is Irish, but hey, that's only once a year so don't be gettin notions above yer station.

I'd happily get rid of the granny rule. The sale of Irish passports was a national scandal. An EU citizen is allowed to deal with another EU member states embassy or consulate abroad if their home country doesn't have an embassy or consulate in that particular country. It's a joke that someone was given citizenship simply because they married an Irish person even though they never lived here. If there's a way of rescinding citizenship for such people then the Minister should do so.

dwayneshintzy

Ilovemybricks wrote: »

She's never lived here and has no Irish ancestry. There's absolutely nothing Irish about her and if there's a way of rescinding her citizenship then do it.

I wouldn't give citizenship to yanks what weren't born here or born to Irish born parents either btw.

I was born in America to two Irish parents and moved to Ireland when I was 10 years old. Do I get to keep my citizenship?

Donald Trump

dwayneshintzy wrote: »

I was born in America to two Irish parents and moved to Ireland when I was 10 years old. Do I get to keep my citizenship?

No. Feck off. After I build me wall to keep out them little Mexican divils, I'm coming right for your Yank passport me boyo!

Ilovemybricks

dwayneshintzy wrote: »

I was born in America to two Irish parents and moved to Ireland when I was 10 years old. Do I get to keep my citizenship?

Can you read? I said that people born to Irish born parents should be given citizenship. We should do away with dual citizenship though. You want all citizens to be equal, right?

dwayneshintzy

"I wouldn't give citizenship to yanks what weren't born here or born to Irish born parents either btw."

....is exactly what you said.

And no, of course I can't read.

Ilovemybricks

I wouldn't give citizenship to yanks who weren't born here or born to Irish born parents either btw.

Note the or.

Ilovemybricks

Ilovemybricks wrote: »

Can you read? I said that people born to Irish born parents should be given citizenship.

Why?

That's as arbitrary a requirement as marriage to an Irish citizen.

Either way, the laws that define how citizenship is acquired is not the issue. If she is an Irish citizen she is an Irish citizen. We none of us know anything beyond that she met the relevant criteria. If you don't like it, lobby your TD to change the laws. Either way, we don't get the option now to say "yerra she wasn't that Irish anyway".

dwayneshintzy

Would we not only be required to offer consular assistance if she entered into Iran on her Irish passport, presenting herself as an Irish citizen?

dwayneshintzy

Dual citizens

While consular assistance may be provided to dual nationals, the right of an Irish dual national to receive consular assistance from our Missions is effectively determined by the attitude of the host country. In circumstances where the Irish citizen is detained either in the country of their other nationality, or is travelling on the passport of another country, we may not be able to provide consular assistance.

Under international law, countries are not obliged to legally recognise dual citizenship/nationality. Irish citizens should be aware that travelling or visiting the country of their other citizenship may have implications for them, and that they may also be subject to laws which apply only to citizens of that country.

https://www.dfa.ie/travel/assistance-abroad/arrested-or-detained-abroad/

Donald Trump

dwayneshintzy wrote: »

Would we not only be required to offer consular assistance if she entered into Iran on her Irish passport, presenting herself as an Irish citizen?

My understanding is that if you have dual (or multiple) citizenship, you can't avail of consular assistance from one when you are in one of the other ones.

If this lady is an Irish citizen and she gets into trouble in America, the DFA will help. If she gets into trouble in Canada and has Canadian citizenship, they can't. Similarly if she has been unable to revoke her Iranian citizenship, they can't help her there. but they could have helped her if she was in Iraq or Saudi or whatever

Ilovemybricks

Deleted User wrote: »

Why?

That's as arbitrary a requirement as marriage to an Irish citizen.

No, it's not. Their parents are Irish and they're Irish by blood.

Ilovemybricks

dwayneshintzy wrote: »

Would we not only be required to offer consular assistance if she entered into Iran on her Irish passport, presenting herself as an Irish citizen?

The Master Nationality Rule is a consequence of Article 4 of the Convention on Certain Questions Relating to the Conflict of Nationality Laws of 1930. This provides that "a State may not afford diplomatic protection to one of its nationals against a state whose nationality such person also possesses".

Commonly known as the "Master Nationality Rule", the practical effect of this Article is that where a person is a national of, for example, two States (A and , and is in the territory of State A, then State B has no right to claim that person as its national or to intervene on that person's behalf. Such a person who goes into the territory of a third state may be treated as a national of either A or B – it does not normally matter which one, except, for example, where the courts of the third state have to adjudicate upon matters relating to that person's status and the relevant laws depend on the person's nationality. In such cases, it is necessary to choose an effective nationality (i.e. one of the two nationalities is selected as effective for the purposes of the third state).

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master_Nationality_Rule

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

I opened the thread expecting a punch line, but there was none

Ilovemybricks

Ilovemybricks wrote: »

No, it's not. Their parents are Irish and they're Irish by blood.

Could you define "Irish by blood" a little more?

If someone has 4 Irish grandparents, but they and the parents were born abroad, would you allow them to become Irish citizens?

Jawgap

Deleted User wrote: »

Could you define "Irish by blood" a little more?

If someone has 4 Irish grandparents, but they and the parents were born abroad, would you allow them to become Irish citizens?

.....only if they had a decent left foot, or can play on the open side of the scrum

Chuchote

These threads are completely predictable; don't bother to read. If the person has a foreign name or brown skin, Irish racists will disown them. Only the Mulligans from Dublin, the McCarthys from Cork and the Ryans from Tipp are 'really Irish'. And maybe the O'Neills… ah no, sure they're Nordies.

Jawgap

Chuchote wrote: »

These threads are completely predictable; don't bother to read. If the person has a foreign name or brown skin, Irish racists will disown them. Only the Mulligans from Dublin, the McCarthys from Cork and the Ryans from Tipp are 'really Irish'. And maybe the O'Neills… ah no, sure they're Nordies.

.....and the McGraths and the Hughtons

It's nothing to do with skin tone - it's about not being a soft touch. This academic isn't on the staff of an Irish university, has never lived here or worked here and has life based in Canada - sure she has an Irish passport, but surely it should be the Canadians who should be leading on efforts to free her?

keeponhurling

Kat1170 wrote: »

Pity she wasn't a ticket tout, Inda and Co. would be falling over themselves to help

would they ?

keeponhurling

Of course the Irish embassy in Iran would provide consular assistance to an Irish citizen. That's one of their functions.

However, Iran does not recognise dual nationality, and treats detainees only as Iranian, depriving them of consular access. It's not Ireland's fault that it is difficult for us to help.

Her supporters want the Irish (and other) governments to "apply pressure" on Iran.
But what can they do really?
She was arrested in Iran, and will be subject to Iranian processes and laws.

It's the same as all the other similar cases, we can provide consular support (where possible), but we cannot say to another country "Let them go, sure in Ireland it'd be grand" etc.

Irish laws only apply to Ireland, and if you're overseas you need to be mindful of local situations