Did you hear about the Irishwoman in prison in Iran?

Homa Hoodfar, a dual Irish-Canadian citizen has been imprisoned in Iran, where she was born. Seven months ago, during a trip to Iran, Iran's Revolutionary Guards raided her accommodation, confiscated passports, and indicted her in Iran on unknown charges, said to include 'dabbling in feminism'.

Many people suspect that the charges relate to her academic work on how (she contends) the Islamic hijab is oppressive to women (Hoodfar is a Professor Emeritus in Anthropology)

http://montreal.ctvnews.ca/academics-colleagues-push-for-hoodfar-s-release-from-iranian-prison-1.3061644

I heard an interview about this woman's imprisonment last week, in which a colleague of Homa Hoodfar said the Irish Government through its embassy has demonstrated a very tepid reaction to the imprisonment, hardly interacting at all with the citizen in question.

Between this case and that of Ibrahim Halawa, is the Government taking a somewhat blasé attitude to the liberty of those citizens which it deems to be 'less Irish'?

Here is an elderly citizen, who apparently has a great affinity for Ireland and its history, and it almost seems like she is seen as 'incidentally' Irish (as if such a status exists), which is strongly disputed by her colleagues in the Irish Studies Department at Concordia University.

What gives? Why is this such a non-issue in Ireland?

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater

I'm not 100% au fait with this lady's history with Ireland and how she came to be a citizen but I do think that the ease of which people have gained citizenship in Ireland in recent years has made us (the public) a little indifferent to the predicament of people who are seemingly Irish on paper only.

Just my theory.

Ilovemybricks

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote: »

I'm not 100% au fait with this lady's history with Ireland and how she came to be a citizen but I do think that the ease of which people have gained citizenship in Ireland in recent years has made us (the public) a little indifferent to the predicament of people who are seemingly Irish on paper only.

Just my theory.

She's never even lived here and has no Irish ancestry. Ridiculous that she's a citizen.

It's none of our business what happens to Iranians in Iran.

EICVD

I have now anyway.....

Gatling

Sure it's a Canadian issue.



We have Irish issues to worry about

looksee

Do you get Irish citizenship through marriage? I am a Brit who married an Irishman and I was never aware that I had citizenship? Not automatically anyway. Must check it up.

Ilovemybricks

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Between this case and that of Ibrahim Halawa, is the Government taking a somewhat blasé attitude to the liberty of those citizens which it deems to be 'less Irish'?

Ibrahim Halawa has received 34 consular visits from Irish Embassy staff.

http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015021200048

The embassy staff in Egypt have already gone above and beyond for him.

In a bold diplomatic move, the Irish ambassador to Egypt, Isolde Moylan, flanked by a number of consular staff from the Irish Embassy in Egypt and members of the EU delegation in Cairo, are set to attend the court hearing.This unprecedented show of high-level support is believed to be a tactical, yet subtle, flexing of diplomatic muscle intended to put pressure on the Egyptian authorities to release Ibrahim.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/diplomatic-team-to-attend-jailed-teenagers-cairo-trial-30427033.html

Charlie Flanagan has already met with the family twice, requested a presidential pardon for him and has met with his Egyptian counterpart to discuss the situation. What more can the government realistically do here? Do you want them to send in the army rangers or something?

He's received unprecedented levels of help and support from the government and you claim that they're taking a blasé attitude to his case? Utterly false.

ScumLord

Thread title sounds like the start of a joke.

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Homa Hoodfar, a dual Irish-Canadian citizen has been imprisoned in Iran, where she was born. Seven months ago, during a trip to Iran, Iran's Revolutionary Guards raided her accommodation, confiscated passports, and indicted her Iran on unknown charges.#

Many people suspect that the charges relate to her academic work on how (she contends) the Islamic hijab is oppressive to women (Hoodfar is a Professor Emeritus in Anthropology)

http://montreal.ctvnews.ca/academics-colleagues-push-for-hoodfar-s-release-from-iranian-prison-1.3061644

I heard an interview about this woman's imprisonment last week, in which a colleague of Homa Hoodfar said the Irish Government through its embassy has demonstrated a very tepid reaction to the imprisonment, hardly interacting at all with the citizen in question.

Between this case and that of Ibrahim Halawa, is the Government taking a somewhat blasé attitude to the liberty of those citizens which it deems to be 'less Irish'?

Here is an elderly citizen, who apparently has a great affinity for Ireland and its history, and it almost seems like she is seen as 'incidentally' Irish (as if such a status exists), which is strongly disputed by her colleagues in the Irish Studies Department at Concordia University.

What gives? Why is this such a non-issue in Ireland?

This is the worst punchline ever.

Kat1170

Pity she wasn't a ticket tout, Inda and Co. would be falling over themselves to help

Mr. FoggPatches

Poor punchline tbh.

endacl

Ilovemybricks wrote: »

She's never even lived here and has no Irish ancestry. Ridiculous that she's a citizen.

It's none of our business what happens to Iranians in Iran.

Au contraire. It's absolutely our business. Or was it none of our business what happened to Bosnians in Sarajevo?

Redhairedguy

Gatling wrote: »

We have Irish issues to worry about

Yeah! Like, who's taking the horse to France?

feargale

Ilovemybricks wrote: »

She's never even lived here and has no Irish ancestry. Ridiculous that she's a citizen.

It's none of our business what happens to Iranians in Iran.

She was granted Irish citizenship for whatever reason, good or bad. It's rather late in the day now to be playing Pontius Pilate.

ScumLord

Redhairedguy wrote: »

Yeah! Like, who's taking the horse to France?

We're not sending any more horses to France, the last one came back as a kebab.

Ilovemybricks

Ilovemybricks wrote: »

She's never even lived here and has no Irish ancestry.

I don't think drugs mule Michaela McCollum-Connolly ever lived here either.
Her family are from outside the country, too.

The Irish displomatic services have been plenty helpful to McCollum, providing legal advice, finding her a place to stay on parole and eventually helping her get out of prison and back to her home.

Ilovemybricks

feargale wrote: »

She was granted Irish citizenship for whatever reason, good or bad. It's rather late in the day now to be playing Pontius Pilate.

I'm saying it is ridiculous as it is ridiculous. We need to be much more stringent in who we hand it out to. There's nothing Irish about this person. She's never even lived here!

Ilovemybricks

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

I don't think drugs mule Michaela McCollum-Connolly ever lived here either.
Her family are from outside the country, too.

The Irish displomatic services have been plenty helpful to McCollum, providing legal advice, finding her a place to stay on parole and eventually helping her get out of prison and back to her home.

McCollums family are from Monaghan and she was born on the island of Ireland. She's Irish. This Iranian Canadian is not.

endacl

Ilovemybricks wrote: »

I'm saying it is ridiculous as it is ridiculous. We need to be much more stringent in who we hand it out to. There's nothing Irish about this person. She's never even lived here!

It suits us when it suits us though. If she fit into a green jersey and could score from the halfway line, she'd be Irish enough.

Ilovemybricks

endacl wrote: »

It suits us when it suits us though. If she fit into a green jersey and could score from the halfway line, she'd be Irish enough.

Have to at least have an Irish born grandparent to play international football for Ireland. This Iranian Canadian doesn't even have that!

Ilovemybricks

Ilovemybricks wrote: »

I'm saying it is ridiculous as it is ridiculous. We need to be much more stringent in who we hand it out to. There's nothing Irish about this person. She's never even lived here!

The Irish nation is not a geographic entity. JUst look at all those Yanks who've never been outside their tri-state area, who legitimately enjoy Irish nationality.

Our genetic history is one of coming and going, and dispersing all across the world, a bit like the Jews or the Roma. Uniting us, however, are the principles we live by and the community with which we identify.

I for one couldn't be happier to have as a member of our society an Iranian-born scholar who started a family with an Irishman, and apparently has a strong interest in Irish culture and history, and whose life's work involves the promotion of women's liberty. This might not have been such a grim little island over the past 100 years, especially for women, if we had had more Homa Hoodfars.

feargale

Ilovemybricks wrote: »

I'm saying it is ridiculous as it is ridiculous. We need to be much more stringent in who we hand it out to. There's nothing Irish about this person. She's never even lived here!

And I'm saying what's done is done. I don't know why she got citizenship. Neither do you apparently. But to say, having granted her citizenship, even if it was a mistake, that we should now absolve ourselves from our obligations to a citizen is perverse, egregiously so in the cicumstances in which she finds herself.

Besides, there was a time when this country wasn't afraid to stand for human rights around the world. But too many of us have become addicted to economic advantage to the detriment of decency and have turned it into a cowardly little country.

Ilovemybricks

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

The Irish nation is not a geographic entity. JUst look at all those Yanks who've never been outside their tri-state area, who legitimately enjoy Irish nationality.

Our genetic history is one of coming and going, and dispersing all across the world, a bit like the Jews or the Roma. Uniting us, however, are the principles we live by and the community with which we identify.

I for one couldn't be happier to have as a member of our society an Iranian-born scholar who apparently has a strong interest in Irish culture and history, and whose life's work involves the promotion of women's liberty. This might not have been such a grim little island over the past 100 years, especially for women, if we had had more Homa Hoodfars.

She's never lived here and has no Irish ancestry. There's absolutely nothing Irish about her and if there's a way of rescinding her citizenship then do it.

I wouldn't give citizenship to yanks what weren't born here or born to Irish born parents either btw.

emo72

"Many people suspect that the charges relate to her academic work on how (she contends) the Islamic hijab is oppressive to women (Hoodfar is a Professor Emeritus in Anthropology)"

granted her irish links are tenuous, but leaving that aside for the moment, id have no problem supporting her given her thinking on the
hijab. that alone is worthy of support, regardless of nationality.

Zaph

Tbh this is the first I've heard about her having Irish citizenship. Any reports I read previously only ever mentioned that she was an Iranian born Canadian citizen. It seems that she's an Irish citizen through marriage, but to answer the original question, no, I didn't hear about the Irishwoman in prison in Iran because she wasn't being reported as being Irish.

Gatling

Zaph wrote: »

Tbh this is the first I've heard about her having Irish citizenship. Any reports I read previously only ever mentioned that she was an Iranian born Canadian citizen. It seems that she's an Irish citizen through marriage, but to answer the original question, no, I didn't hear about the Irishwoman in prison in Iran because she wasn't being reported as being Irish.

She was arrested with 3 passports on her apparently

Spanish Eyes

Iran is supposed to be a wonderful place to visit now, and not too much negative stuff from the UK Foreign Office either, which is my go to place for this kind of information.

Still, if one goes to Iran with the intention of denigrating the hijab, what does she expect?

The Irish links are not an issue.

When in Rome......

Ilovemybricks

Ilovemybricks wrote: »

She's never lived here and has no Irish ancestry. There's absolutely nothing Irish about her and if there's a way of rescinding her citizenship then do it.

I wouldn't give citizenship to yanks what weren't born here or born to Irish born parents either btw.

I find your repeated reliance on ancestry a little strange, since evidence of Irish lineage has never been required for acquiring citizenship.

This woman put a lot more thought into her Irish citizenship than most of us. based on the interview I heard from one of her colleagues, she probably knows a lot more about Irish culture and history than a lot of barstool bellyachers do.

feargale

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

When in Rome......

When in North Korea.......

Spanish Eyes

feargale wrote: »

When in North Korea.......

What?

Iran is a lovely welcoming country now, with great food (no drink lol, but there are ways!) and great things to see.

And in addition, the ladies only have a half scarf, their hair is shown, not like a hijab.

The thin end of the wedge is the introduction of full hijab there, but I can't see that happening.

Looks like a fab country to visit.

CrabRevolution

While I personally disagree with her imprisonment, I don't understand why you think I should feel any special affinity for the woman simply because of one of her THREE citizenships is a pretty tenuously earned Irish one.

Ilovemybricks

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

I find your repeated reliance on ancestry a little strange, since evidence of Irish lineage has never been required for acquiring citizenship.

It is if you've never lived here. It's the only way it can be obtained without living here today

This woman put a lot more thought into her Irish citizenship than most of us.

She's never even lived here! She's not put any effort into it. If it can be rescinded, rescind it. She's not Irish through descent or by residency.

rebel.ranter

looksee wrote: »

Do you get Irish citizenship through marriage? I am a Brit who married an Irishman and I was never aware that I had citizenship? Not automatically anyway. Must check it up.

You are eligible to apply, but it will cost you €175 to apply and €950 for the certificate if you're successful. Being married to an Irish citizen will make your application more favourable:

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/moving_country/irish_citizenship/becoming_an_irish_citizen_through_marriage.html

osarusan

looksee wrote: »

Do you get Irish citizenship through marriage? I am a Brit who married an Irishman and I was never aware that I had citizenship? Not automatically anyway. Must check it up.

it used to be very easy to get, but has become more difficult in recent years with new criteria about length of residence in Ireland.

CrabRevolution

CrabRevolution wrote: »

While I personally disagree with her imprisonment, I don't understand why you think I should feel any special affinity for the woman simply because of one of her THREE citizenships is a pretty tenuously earned Irish one.

I don't believe she has three citizenships. An adult cannot have dual Iranian citizenship, nevermind multiple citizenships.

Maybe people are confused because three passports were confiscated, which is not to say they were three active passports belonging to Homa Hoodfar.

Also, nobody is asking for your affinity. Nobody wants you to do anything. I don't see you as being central to the resolution of this problem, it's a matter for the Irish Government through its Embassy. The State is obliged to defend the personal rights of its citizens.

Ilovemybricks wrote: »

It is if you've never lived here. It's the only way it can be obtained without living here today

What I'm saying is that citizenship is not contingent upon lineage. She legitimately earned her citizenship through her marriage to an Irishman.

She's not Irish through descent or by residency.

There are no classes of citizenship. She's no less a citizen than you are (I merely assume you are one)

Gatling

She gained citizenship through marriage here her husband died a while back ,
She's considered to be Iranian Canadian .
No mention of Irish at all

Ilovemybricks

She didn't earn her citizenship. She married a Paddy and got it. They're now divorced. She has never lived here.

If it can be rescinded, and it can in some cases for naturalised citizens but not natural born citizens, then it should be.

It's absurd that she has Irish citizenship and we've got to be more stringent in who we give it to.

There's some prick on Death Row in Florida who has recently obtained citizenship to try and help his case. Why are we willingly allowing ourselves to be dragged into this sort of crapola?

looksee

If someone of another nationality marries an Irish person they have to apply for citizenship, it is not automatic, and there is a residency requirement. So if she has never lived here she cannot be an Irish citizen;

From Citizens Information: If you are the spouse or civil partner of an Irish citizen who is applying for Irish citizenship, you must meet the following conditions:

You must be married to or in a recognised civil partnership* with the Irish citizen for at least 3 years
You must have had a period of 1 year's continuous reckonable residence - see below - in the island of Ireland immediately before the date of your application, and during the 4 years preceding that, have had a total reckonable residence in the island of Ireland amounting to 2 years. Altogether you must have a total of 3 years reckonable residence out of the last 5 years.
Your marriage or civil partnership must be recognised as valid under Irish law
You and your spouse or civil partner must be living together as husband and wife or civil partners
You must be of full age, good character and intend to continue to live on the island of Ireland
You must have made a declaration of fidelity to the nation and loyalty to the State.
*Foreign relationships registered outside Ireland were only recognised by the State on 13 January 2011 when the Civil Partnership and Certain Rights and Obligations of Cohabitants Act 2010 came into force. However, under the Marriage Act 2015, it is now possible for same-sex couples to become legally married and you can no longer register a civil partnership in Ireland. Partnerships registered abroad after 16 November 2015 are not recognised as civil partnerships in Ireland.

Gatling

Ilovemybricks wrote: »

She didn't earn her citizenship. She married a Paddy and got it. They're now divorced. She has never lived here.

She did live here with her husband until he died of cancer I believe

Jawgap

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

I don't believe she has three citizenships. An adult cannot have dual Iranian citizenship, nevermind multiple citizenships.


......

Course you can......I've had three passports at once - Irish (through birth) US (through naturalisation) and UK (through parentage, but passport is currently expired) - it makes sense when travelling, or it used but the last 18 months or so the Yanks have started to clamp down on it.

Jawgap

Jawgap wrote: »

Course you can......

I said "An adult cannot have dual Iranian citizenship"

darkpagandeath

So she must have had 7 consular visits by now judging by that lad in Egypt ? Wonder if that crowed are demanding her release ?

Jawgap

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

I said "An adult cannot have dual Iranian citizenship"

yes, it was the second part of that statement I was replying to.......

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

I don't believe she has three citizenships. An adult cannot have dual Iranian citizenship, nevermind multiple citizenships.

....

Gatling

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

I said "An adult cannot have dual Iranian citizenship"

So is she Iranian or Canadian

BoJack Horseman

So, she's a triple citizen?

Jawgap

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

So, she's a triple citizen?

Her problem probably stemmed from the 3 passports - if you travel under one passport you can't claim consular protection under a second one.

AFAIK, that's the Halawa kid's problem - he travelled on his Egyptian passport then tried to claim consular representation under his Irish one - which he got, and when the ambassador negotiated his release he declined to leave!!!

Outlaw Pete

....when they told her she was being beheaded she said 'not again'.

Gatling

I don't know why the thread is getting bogged down on Homa Hoodafr's dual citizenship. I didn't see dual citizenship raised at all in relation to drugs mule Michaela McCollum Connolly. Here is an academic doing important work, known in the Irish community of which she is a member, coming under attack for 'dabbling in feminism' and people are wringing their hands like little bureaucrats.

Gatling wrote: »

So is she Iranian or Canadian

I genuinely don't know if that's a question or a statement.

She is Irish and she is Canadian.

Jawgap wrote: »

yes, it was the second part of that statement I was replying to.......

It pertains to multiple citizenships among an Iranian citizenship. Obviously (for most people, it's obvious), this isn't a thread about international passport regulations.

Gatling

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

I don't know why the thread is getting bogged down on Homa Hoodafr's dual citizenship.

She is Irish and she is Canadian.

Because you have stated she's Irish doesn't make it true,
She's identified as Iranian Canadian no mention of been Irish,

And been you can't apparently have dual Iranian citizenship that leaves one of the other but definitely not Irish

looksee

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

I don't know why the thread is getting bogged down on Homa Hoodafr's dual citizenship. I didn't see dual citizenship raised at all in relation to drugs mule Michaela McCollum Connolly. Here is an academic doing important work, known in the Irish community of which she is a member, coming under attack for 'dabbling in feminism' and people are wringing their hands like little bureaucrats.


I genuinely don't know if that's a question or a statement.

She is Irish and she is Canadian.

It pertains to multiple citizenships among an Iranian citizenship. Obviously (for most people, it's obvious), this isn't a thread about international passport regulations.

It is relevant because if she is not Irish the Irish government cannot do anything for her.

captbarnacles

Very brave /foolhardy to go there

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zahra_Kazemi

If we can do anything to help her leave the country we should.

Widdershins

A blase attitude toward Ibrahim Halawa? You must be joking. I'd say that man got more consular assistance than anyone else I can think of.