Electric bike - see mode note post #298

magicbastarder

i'm agnostic about them - they're not for footpaths, but are a weird addition to the road. i've hit potholes occasionally on my bike which would probably upend a scooter.

TheMilkyPirate

Opinions on this?

https://www.halfords.ie/cycling/bikes/electric-bikes/carrera-vulcan-electric-mountain-bike-16-18-20-22-frames

Bike has to be something I can afford on the BTW scheme and will only be used for going around town instead of taking the car.

Ferris

TheMilkyPirate wrote: »

Opinions on this?

https://www.halfords.ie/cycling/bikes/electric-bikes/carrera-vulcan-electric-mountain-bike-16-18-20-22-frames

Bike has to be something I can afford on the BTW scheme and will only be used for going around town instead of taking the car.

Seems expensive for a hub motor with an 400Wh battery, probably better bets out there from dealers who specialize in ebikes. Greenaer and cyclesuperstore seem to have good ranges. If your BTW scheme recognizes chainreaction, that’s who I bought off.

magicbastarder

if it's for going around town, you don't need a mountain bike with that sort of suspension.

magicbastarder

magicbastarder wrote: »

if it's for going around town, you don't need a mountain bike with that sort of suspension.

though looking at other e-bikes there, most of them do have suspension.

TheMilkyPirate

Ferris wrote: »

Seems expensive for a hub motor with an 400Wh battery, probably better bets out there from dealers who specialize in ebikes. Greenaer and cyclesuperstore seem to have good ranges. If your BTW scheme recognizes chainreaction, that’s who I bought off.

Thanks for the reply but the bikes on those sites are quite expensive compared to the Halfords one as far as I can tell.

ED E

TheMilkyPirate wrote: »

Thanks for the reply but the bikes on those sites are quite expensive compared to the Halfords one as far as I can tell.

With some reason.

Carrera are Halfords own brand. Think Tesco Value Vodka vs Smirnoff.

Ferris

Yep, because they're much better bikes. The Halfords bikes that use the Suntour system suffer from cutouts, this issue has been ongoing and has not been resolved. I would be skeptical about Halfords ability to resolve issues like this in-store.

https://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/carrera-vulcan-e-problems.30271/#post-420350

Just looked and there is a dealer in Dun Laoghaire for Wisper e-bikes, they're good 'about town' bikes and are reasonable.

https://www.dlbcycles.ie

There's another manufacturer of good quality reasonable bikes called Whoosh in the UK. I think that they can supply a bike to your local dealer and you pay a fee for PDI and support etc. They're worth an email as they're known for good customer support.

beauf

Halfords resolved it by creating a different model the Crossfuse with a Bosch system. Early reports are good. But its more expensive.

Carrera is Halfords better brand, and generally has a good reputation (with the exception of the problems mentioned above). They have a cheaper brand Apollo.

They are also carrying the Gtech one on their website. Thats more of around city hybrid, but with limited sizing.

Macy0161

Ferris wrote: »

Electric scooters used to bug me but I have come around to the idea that they could prove to be a useful alternative for commuting.

I think they are - they seem to be more attractive to a cohort that won't use a bike for whatever reason. A bit like all the "law breaking cyclists"/ "sit in the queue like me rather than filter" most of the enforcement calls appear to come from motorists who don't like seeing others making progress while they're being traffic.

Ferris wrote: »

DCC / Garda / whatever will not turn the tide here - these things are going to get more and more common, its just that the tech has advanced faster than the relevant legislation.

This - they need to set the appropriate standards, and then enforce. Include ebikes. And please, the cyclist light requirements away from size defined by inches and visivbility in feet and yards if legislation is being updated!

Ferris

beauf wrote: »

Halfords resolved it by creating a different model the Crossfuse with a Bosch system. Early reports are good. But its more expensive.

Indeed. Also I’d say that a similarly or better spec’ed Cube with the same motor can be had from one of the stores I mentioned with arguably better support and lower price.

Also if things like lights, racks and mudguards are desired then it’s cheaper to buy a bike with these fitted rather than retrofit. I added wired in lights and mudguards later at some expense.

My bike has a Bosch motor and it’s been excellent with no issues in 13000km.

TheMilkyPirate

Thanks for the replys lads. Due to my budget it looks like I'll be sticking to a regular pushbike

CramCycle

ED E wrote: »

With some reason.

Carrera are Halfords own brand. Think Tesco Value Vodka vs Smirnoff.

I would have said Tesco Value vs Grey Goose, Smirnoff would be hardly different at all :pac:

Ferris

TheMilkyPirate wrote: »

Thanks for the replys lads. Due to my budget it looks like I'll be sticking to a regular pushbike

You could always 'electrify' your bike, or at least the bike that you plan to buy. Actually the regular carreras are easy to convert apparently - see Whoosh website for their conversion kits - it might be something you can work towards in the future.

My ebike means that I pretty much go out in all weathers and therefore we have been able to make do with one car as a family. I have saved thousands in tax, ins, fuel, repairs and depreciation. Basically its worth considering that an ebike can pay for itself in a very short amount of time, arguably moreso than a regular pushbike.

Mec-a-nic

Do NOT get a Stromer eBike - I hit 53kph going down a main street, very likely to kill myself off it (it was a blast though)

Mec-a-nic

Mec-a-nic wrote: »

Do NOT get a Stromer eBike - I hit 53kph going down a main street, very likely to kill myself off it (it was a blast though)

That's a but over the top, hardly likely to kill ones self at 53 Km/h on a Bicycle.

Once the brakes are modified to take into account the extra speed then there should be no issue.

Ferris

Mec-a-nic wrote: »

Do NOT get a Stromer eBike - I hit 53kph going down a main street, very likely to kill myself off it (it was a blast though)

I was talking to one of the lads in Greenaer about what bike he would buy.

‘Stromer, every time’

Mec-a-nic

Deleted User wrote: »

Once the brakes are modified to take into account the extra speed then there should be no issue.

It had hydraulic disk brakes, very capable and I tested them in an emergency stop

Deleted User wrote: »

hardly likely to kill ones self at 53 Km/h on a Bicycle.

I've been cycling around the city for decades, it is completely possible to kill yourself at 53kph. In fact, it's becoming a problem for older (male) riders in normally very save cycling countries:

https://bicycledutch.wordpress.com/2018/04/25/more-cycling-fatalities-than-deaths-in-cars/

rubadub

Deleted User wrote: »

Once the brakes are modified to take into account the extra speed then there should be no issue.

or maybe just do not go that fast... I was not sure if that poster was taking the piss.


Do NOT get a *insert pretty much any car you like* - I hit 130kph going down a main street

TheMilkyPirate

TheMilkyPirate wrote: »

Opinions on this?

https://www.halfords.ie/cycling/bikes/electric-bikes/carrera-vulcan-electric-mountain-bike-16-18-20-22-frames

Bike has to be something I can afford on the BTW scheme and will only be used for going around town instead of taking the car.

This bike uses a rear geared hub motor for better efficiency compared to non geared or direct drive motor.

from doing some research this motor would appear to have about 50-60 Nm of torque.

See below.

https://www.srsuntour.us/products/sr-suntour-r250-hp?variant=12162125594718

This looks like the exact motor after zooming into a few pics on the Halfords site.

Geared Hub motors are pretty decent but won't climb hills as good with limited power like a chain drive system like Bosch, panasonic or yamaha and others.

For maximum efficiency and hill climbing ability the Chain drives are best.

However, if you just want that extra boost for commuting to fight some hills and wind then the Carerra Vulcan bike should be more than good enough.

And the other advantages of hub motors is that they have 0 drag when there is no power to the motor not so with the Bosch and other chain/crank drive systems and feel like you're pulling something behind you because those bikes do not disconnect some internal components when you want to pedal with no motor assistance unlike the internal hub motor which has a clutch and completely disconnects the motor/gears when no power is applied.

Also with the hub you do not have to ease off on pedal power to change gears unlike crank drive systems which can be a pain.

1400 Euro's is not a lot really for an ebike, a good quality bike alone will cost 500+ euro's.

I lost a lot of weight before on an ebike which cost me 2400 Euro's it uses the Bosch drive system , I got it in 2013 and the health benefits alone are worth it.

TheMilkyPirate

[Deleted User] wrote: »

This bike uses a rear geared hub motor for better efficiency compared to non geared or direct drive motor.

from doing some research this motor would appear to have about 50-60 Nm of torque.

See below.

https://www.srsuntour.us/products/sr-suntour-r250-hp?variant=12162125594718

This looks like the exact motor after zooming into a few pics on the Halfords site.

Geared Hub motors are pretty decent but won't climb hills as good with limited power like a chain drive system like Bosch, panasonic or yamaha and others.

For maximum efficiency and hill climbing ability the Chain drives are best.

However, if you just want that extra boost for commuting to fight some hills and wind then the Carerra Vulcan bike should be more than good enough.

And the other advantages of hub motors is that they have 0 drag when there is no power to the motor not so with the Bosch and other chain/crank drive systems and feel like you're pulling something behind you because those bikes do not disconnect some internal components when you want to pedal with no motor assistance unlike the internal hub motor which has a clutch and completely disconnects the motor/gears when no power is applied.

Also with the hub you do not have to ease off on pedal power to change gears unlike crank drive systems which can be a pain.

1400 Euro's is not a lot really for an ebike, a good quality bike alone will cost 500+ euro's.

I lost a lot of weight before on an ebike which cost me 2400 Euro's it uses the Bosch drive system , I got it in 2013 and the health benefits alone are worth it.

Thanks for the info MadLad maybe it wouldn't be too bad an option after all. At the end of the day if I turn off the motor it's just the same as a regular bike that I'd be buying anyway, OK a bit heavier but still just a bike.

I went into Halfords yesterday to have a look its a lovely bike but the sales assistant wasn't the most helpful. He didn't know anything about them and told me you can't get a test ride on them anymore due to people robbing them. Can't imagine it was that big a problem so maybe he was just fobbing me off.

C3PO

TheMilkyPirate wrote: »

Opinions on this?

https://www.halfords.ie/cycling/bikes/electric-bikes/carrera-vulcan-electric-mountain-bike-16-18-20-22-frames

Bike has to be something I can afford on the BTW scheme and will only be used for going around town instead of taking the car.

Halfords, Carerra and Suntour .... what could possibly go wrong!!!

TheMilkyPirate

TheMilkyPirate wrote: »

Thanks for the info MadLad maybe it wouldn't be too bad an option after all. At the end of the day if I turn off the motor it's just the same as a regular bike that I'd be buying anyway, OK a bit heavier but still just a bike.

I went into Halfords yesterday to have a look its a lovely bike but the sales assistant wasn't the most helpful. He didn't know anything about them and told me you can't get a test ride on them anymore due to people robbing them. Can't imagine it was that big a problem so maybe he was just fobbing me off.

You know that's the stark difference between Ireland and Germany, I was astonished to see some local bike shops in my Partners Parents local area not even caring who took their bikes for test drives because everyone brought them back that wouldn't happen here, there'd be advertisements that there are free bikes to rob in 10 mins...... the bikes were not even locked , free to take and test, amazing.

I'm sure there are areas in Germany you wouldn't do this but there's nowhere in Ireland you would see this for good reason.

Anyway back to the Halfords bike, Unless you are regularly climbing very steep hills, 10-12% grade + then I would say the halfords bike would be just fine but if climbing steep hills regularly then I suggest try find a 2nd hand bike with a Bosch system because they will ( with the right gearing) climb anything because the motor can use the bikes gearing for better efficiency, you get 50-75 Nm Torque with a Bosch ( depending on the motor ) in every gear where as with a hub it has a single fixed gear and it can't be changed to a lower gear on a steep hill which causes it to slow down and become inefficient using more battery power.

I climbed Mount Leinster with a Bosch bike using only about 500-600 watts without issue, yes it was tough with only 50 Nm of torque. I also tried a Direct drive Hub motor and while I got to the top I was pulling about 3 Kw and cooked the motor, it stank in the car all the way home, the Bosch was not even warm to the touch. But Mount Leinster has some 20-24% grades up to the RTE mast most people are unlikely to encounter often.

I wouldn't have tried my geared hub because I probably would have killed it but you can get higher torque motors which will heat a lot less on hills than the version I had but the Crank drive will always be king for slow very steep trails.

C3PO

C3PO wrote: »

Halfords, Carerra and Suntour .... what could possibly go wrong!!!

That's the other issue, I don't know of any problems related to this ebike because I don't know much about it. In general hub motors are very reliable. Any issues could be related to the electrics.

rubadub

TheMilkyPirate wrote: »

He didn't know anything about them and told me you can't get a test ride on them anymore due to people robbing them. Can't imagine it was that big a problem so maybe he was just fobbing me off.

They could just ask for cash or a credit card to be left, confirm on the credit card before hand. There must be some system for this for cars being test driven.

CRC used to have test ride days, not sure if you just got to go around the carpark. It would be important to fully test it as the 25kmh limit would be hugely offputting to a lot of people, a quick spin around a carpark might feel amazing but the reality on a commute would be very different.

Yes 25 Km/h means that with a heavy ebike you could find yourself at a slower speed than you normally might be able to pedal on a lighter bike.

Ideally the cut off should be at least 18 Mph or 29.9 Km/h.

25 Km/h just screams Nanny E.U bureaucracy.

1bryan

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes 25 Km/h means that with a heavy ebike you could find yourself at a slower speed than you normally might be able to pedal on a lighter bike.

Ideally the cut off should be at least 18 Mph or 29.9 Km/h.

25 Km/h just screams Nanny E.U bureaucracy.

29.9 is way too fast for cycle lanes in the city. It would create dangerous situations for slower-moving bikes which, I'd suggest move at an average speed of 23/24kph. Similar to the situations the unregulated bikes create now. I've seen a good few of these, particularly along the grand canal from grand canal dock to, say, rathmines or harold's cross, where there isn't a whole lot of space to play with (figuratively speaking).

1bryan

1bryan wrote: »

29.9 is way too fast for cycle lanes in the city. It would create dangerous situations for slower-moving bikes which, I'd suggest move at an average speed of 23/24kph. Similar to the situations the unregulated bikes create now. I've seen a good few of these, particularly along the grand canal from grand canal dock to, say, rathmines or harold's cross, where there isn't a whole lot of space to play with (figuratively speaking).

As suggested above, you don't drive a car at 130 Km/h + all the time ?

So naturally you would use your brain like you would in a car.

I've been on main roads in the shoulder doing 50+ Km/h many, many times with no issue and no danger to anyone.

Plenty of instances where 50 Km/h is perfectly safe on a bike same as doing 50 Km/h in 50 Km/h zones in a car that is capable of 150+ Km/h is /can be safe, though sometimes 50 Km/h is too fast, again, brain must be engaged.

beauf

Even on cycle paths you get some morons flat out on road bikes doing 40-50kph where its completely dangerous to do so.

Most people can't maintain that speed for long so it less of an issue. On something with a motor that doesn't cut out everyone can do it.

Most of those eScooters are limited only by rider weight, incline. The new version of the M365 has a less easy to hack limiter. Apparently.

1bryan

Deleted User wrote: »

As suggested above, you don't drive a car at 130 Km/h + all the time ?

So naturally you would use your brain like you would in a car.

I've been on main roads in the shoulder doing 50+ Km/h many, many times with no issue and no danger to anyone.

Plenty of instances where 50 Km/h is perfectly safe as doing 50 Km/h in 50 Km/h zones in a car that is capable of 150+ Km/h.

I have no problem with bikes not being limited, or with them having their limit increased. However, they are not safe to use in cycle lanes, and should be subject to different laws than 'regular' pushbikes. That is my opinion as someone who cycles, daily, in cycle lanes in the city. I do not wish to have my safety compromised and, from my experience, people with un/de-limited bikes will use every bit of speed their bikes will give them.

I love your analogy though. You don't drive a car at 130 Km/h all the time. Given the amounts of deaths on our roads caused by speeding, I think you shot your own argument in the foot. I honestly don't care if you don't drive your car at 130Km/h all the time. The fact is, people do drive with excessive speed, and you only need to encounter someone doing that once, for a tragedy to occur. Same thing with bikes. The consequences may not be as grave, but I don't want any additional danger introduced into my commute, thanks very much.

And how dare I have an opinion, right?