Electric bike - see mode note post #298

ED E

Again you're wrong Mad.

On a legal ebike its a single charge (careless cycling most likely).
On an illegal ebike its multiple charges and much more significant ones.

beauf

Has anyone got insured on an eBike and hour much did it cost?

magicbastarder

i suspect if you rang up to ask the response would be 'uh... i'll have to get back to you'.

ED E

beauf wrote: »

Has anyone got insured on an eBike and hour much did it cost?

Insured for what? CI insurance would cover you if its legal and it'd be impossible if its not.

site_owner

you dont need insurance on a pedelec, its just a bicycle
anything above needs type approval as a L1e-A or above and then you can get taxed and insured.

only 1 company is selling l1e-a type approved ebikes in rurope - radbike - that i know of
they have them insured in a few countries and claim they will help you get it insured in ireland if you are the first customer

Lumen

There are lots of derestricted bikes around now.

Last night I saw a Haibike that was being casually ridden (with intermittent coasting, little pedalling effort and bolt upright position) at just over 30kph.

It would really do little harm to raise the assistance limit to 30kph, which is a sensible but useful speed. As it is people are getting them derestricted and then flying along at even faster speeds.

homer911

Deleted User wrote: »

In the U.S the limit is 20 Mph, and 25 km/h in the E.U at the very lease assistance should drop off to 30-35 km/h and not simply die at 25 Km/h

The Bosch motor starts to fade out at 25 and is gone by 27 - it does not just die at 25.1

snowstreams

It would also be good if the motor was left partially on to cancel out the motor drag.

Duckjob

beauf wrote: »

I think you are under estimating the value of light exercise to those with problems. For many it's life changing.

My first eBike was the gateway drug that got me back cycling after years off the bike (hadn't cycled since college / early work years near 20 yrs before).

After 9 months regular commuting on my eBike, I had raised my fitness levels greatly to to the point where I was ready to buy a road bike as well.

homer911

homer911 wrote: »

The Bosch motor starts to fade out at 25 and is gone by 27 - it does not just die at 25.1

Yeah true I haven't been on it in so long I forget. But either way it's annoying when you're at the cut off point and would like assistance that little bit longer.

ED E

ED E wrote: »

Again you're wrong Mad.

On a legal ebike its a single charge (careless cycling most likely).
On an illegal ebike its multiple charges and much more significant ones.

Depends on what they can prove if you had off road limit higher then 25 km/h and put the limit back on for road use , this can be done very easily but if you forgot to put the limit back on then they would have to know about it and prove it.

If you have 60 Kph and throttle then you're naturally asking for trouble.

Either way a civil case can be taken and it does not matter, that is why I say , particularly in Dublin, it's better to be insured than have to sell your home to pay for legal fees.

If you really, really wanted to get into legalities then all Bosch motors are above legal power, Yamaha and possible most legal ebikes but to the owner it does not matter because they are type approved and can't go above the speed and acceleration limits.

I would be in favour of all cyclists having insurance anyway this of course won't protect you in the event of legal prosecution but it can save your house or part of your salary for the next 40 years.

Tenzor07

If the bike can do 60kph and has/a throttle it definitely needs to have 3rd party Insurance, I highly doubt CI insurance would cover any accidents or injuries.. CI insurance probably has a line saying it only covers fully human powered cycles without motor/assistance.

I also think that if there's a increase in the 25kph restriction to 45kph then those purchasing it should have to have a couple of hours basic training in using and operating the bike, as I'd say most will be non or inexperienced bicycle users.

rubadub

Tenzor07 wrote: »

I also think that if there's a increase in the 25kph restriction to 45kph

I think if it was the same as the US and 32.2kph (20mph) then ~80% of regular commuters currently illegally delimiting would not have bothered with that expense, the bikes are expensive enough to start with. A limit of 32.2 is quite a big difference, 25 is painful if you are on the flat.

hcass

Hey all - wondering if anyone knows are bicycles like these ones available in ireland https://cdn.japantimes.2xx.jp/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/p10-electric-bicycle-a-20171119.jpg


My brother lives in japan and I used this when I was there with his two kids and it was fantastic. I cannot find anything similar over here.

hcass

hcass wrote: »

Hey all - wondering if anyone knows are bicycles like these ones available in ireland https://cdn.japantimes.2xx.jp/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/p10-electric-bicycle-a-20171119.jpg


My brother lives in japan and I used this when I was there with his two kids and it was fantastic. I cannot find anything similar over here.

This would be far better in my opinion, more stable too. The price is of course a joke.

https://www.greenaer.ie/product/tern-gsd-s10-7/

I'd love something like this to get out and about with my two boys 4.5 and 3 years old currently nothing exists that is cheaper and can carry two Children safely on my crap back roads.

rubadub

rubadub wrote: »

I think if it was the same as the US and 32.2kph (20mph) then ~80% of regular commuters currently illegally delimiting would not have bothered with that expense, the bikes are expensive enough to start with. A limit of 32.2 is quite a big difference, 25 is painful if you are on the flat.

If the law is 20 Mph in the U.S why should it be so restrictive in Europe ? they also have a legal 750 watt limit too but in fairness the Bosch motors, Yamaha re 500+ but it would be nice to have the laws changed to a sensible limit to reflect reality.

There has been many, many attempts to have power limits changed but legislators still insist that more than 250 watts is disgraceful on a bicycle that it would be way too dangerous level of power for us dumb people to handle. But guess what ? the power limit has long been surpassed by many if not all ebike manufacturers today because 250 watts is really not enough and how do you determine this ? 250 watts to the motor or 250 watts from the battery ? this is actually a very important question because a hub motor at full power up a steep hill could only be putting 150 watts to the wheel where as a Bosch might put 200 all depending on the efficiency of the system

E.U car makers took many years to put turbos in diesel vans, who would want a turbo in a van ? surely 30 seconds 0-100 is enough ? why would people want more in a van ? lol.

Ferris

hcass wrote: »

Hey all - wondering if anyone knows are bicycles like these ones available in ireland https://cdn.japantimes.2xx.jp/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/p10-electric-bicycle-a-20171119.jpg


My brother lives in japan and I used this when I was there with his two kids and it was fantastic. I cannot find anything similar over here.

No experience but this could be an alternative

https://radpowerbikes.eu/products/2018-radwagon-electric-cargo-bike?variant=12485466914909

site_owner

The radbike is an L1E-A bike so needs insurance. Rad bike have EU typw approval so if you want to buy one they claim that they will help you be the first person in Ireland to get it taxed and insured.

There are other pedelec longbike options, greenaer have a few, as do dutch bike shop. There are other shops too

They are quite expensive and very niche so selling it on will be tough. front loader cargo bikes are more common and in demand if you are factoring resale

That bike in the pic uses a hub motor which I would avoid not because i dislike hub motors but because they need lots of power and at legal limits or even Bosch limits of about 500 Watts a hub like this which looks like a direct drive motor would be pretty gutless especially on hills, fine on level ground possibly but if it is indeed a direct drive hub they are an absolute pain in the ass to pedal with no motor power.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/carltonreid/2019/01/14/substantial-damage-to-electric-bike-market-if-european-parliament-votes-for-compulsory-insurance/


The 22nd January is when the E.U parliament decide whether all ebikes must be insured and I personally think this is a good idea but all cyclists should have some form of insurance.

As I said, in a country like Ireland where you can easily be sued for anything means that if you did hit and injure someone you could loose your home to pay legal costs + any compensation to third party.

Having no insurance on any bike particularly in Dublin leaves people wide open.

On the plus side of that , if insurance becomes law than there is absolutely nothing to stop people going all out and getting the S-pedelecs instead, the difference 50 km/h would make would be massive and who cares about crap bike lanes ? they are mostly bus lanes shared with taxis anyway so you can still ride in them along with Motorbikes and the faster speeds might actually makes things safer for cyclists on ebikes too.

The only odd thing will be having a full registration on the back lol

SteM

Deleted User wrote: »

As I said, in a country like Ireland where you can easily be sued for anything means that if you did hit and injure someone you could loose your home to pay legal costs + any compensation to third party.

Having no insurance on any bike particularly in Dublin leaves people wide open.

Who insures commuting cyclists in Ireland?

I am not aware of anyone who insures cyclists however if this law is passed I would imaging car insurance companies will be forced to and probably only too delighted to take on ebikers.

Still as sore a topic insurance for electric bikes is I believe it’s for the bereft or everyone because if you hit someone and hurt them you’d be mighty glad you have insurance or damage someone’s car if you ride out in front of them by accident.

+ as I said , there’ll be no need to get limited speed bicycles there’d be no reason someone should stick to the 25 km/r ebikes unless they have no drivers license unless cycling in cycle lanes is important to someone but they’re usually bus lanes and a lot of cyclists don’t use the provided dedicated cycles lanes a lot of the time anyway.

I would hope it’s easy for cyclists to insure their bike as needed and not yearly.

Weepsie

Deleted User wrote: »

I am not aware of anyone who insures cyclists however if this law is passed I would imaging car insurance companies will be forced to and probably only too delighted to take on ebikers.

Not necessarily, as it will very likely be hard to quantify how much it will cost them, or anyone.

The notion of insurance for bikes is mostly absurd. IT's a topic that's been done to death. You may as well insist that everybody has third party liability insurance when they step out their front door, as pedestrians are more than capable of causing accidents (and have).

It would also become a massive deterrent to getting people cycling and be a backwards step, and you can't force companies to insure an area if they don't want to.

eBikes that have motors that don't cut out over a certain speed, is another matter I accept, there's a greater mass, possibly greater speed etc that the result of impact is probably more severe, and the risk is probably a little higher.

https://www.bike-eu.com/laws-regulations/nieuws/2019/01/european-parliament-decides-no-compulsory-third-party-liability-insurance-required-for-e-bikes-10135168##

I couldn't find that last night of course but they voted against ebike insurance being mandatory.

hcass

Ferris wrote: »

No experience but this could be an alternative

https://radpowerbikes.eu/products/2018-radwagon-electric-cargo-bike?variant=12485466914909

Thanks for that - and thanks for the other (really expensive) option. How would I go about getting child's seat for it?

Ferris

Try https://dutchbikeshop.ie/ but again, no experience.

1bryan

kind of pleased about this, to be honest

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews//ireland/council-seeks-to-ban-electric-scooters-from-public-roads-908493.html

Chips Lovell

Headline is a wee bit misleading. Dublin City Council aren't seeking to ban electric scooters. They're saying they are banned under law and its up to the Guards to enforce that law.

Ferris

Electric scooters used to bug me but I have come around to the idea that they could prove to be a useful alternative for commuting. DCC / Garda / whatever will not turn the tide here - these things are going to get more and more common, its just that the tech has advanced faster than the relevant legislation.

If they were limited to 25kph and have decent lights / brakes / bell etc. I cannot se the issue. Obviously not for use on paths btw.

beauf

I would like to legislation changed to accommodate them but under similar rules to the eBikes.