Werewolf discussion thread

Baggly

Mod

Lads take it to the D&D discussion thread please.

Mollyb60

FWIW I have no issue with a mega feedback thread. All discussion following a game can be directed there then rather than 10 seperate threads for each game. Game mods can choose to involve themselves or not depending on how they feel after the game. But it still allows people to discuss the game after it's ended. Although as Keith said (I think it was Keith), I don't agree with game threads being locked once they've concluded. What's the point?

sKeith

Mollyb60 wrote: »

FWIW I have no issue with a mega feedback thread. All discussion following a game can be directed there then rather than 10 seperate threads for each game. Game mods can choose to involve themselves or not depending on how they feel after the game. But it still allows people to discuss the game after it's ended. Although as Keith said (I think it was Keith), I don't agree with game threads being locked once they've concluded. What's the point?

5th section of #1483

Yes, game kudos should go at end of game thread, locking game threads straight after a game ends is not something i'd like to see being repeated.

It makes it annoying and clumsy for us normal players, we can't quote from game thread anymore once its locked. I dont see the point either and if its not going to be unlocked, then please do not continue with this practice, I and now we, don't like it.

Baggly

If game mods want it locked, it probably will. If they don't it won't.

I'm fairly amused you are trying to take the decision out of game mod control, sKeith. I had you pegged as someone who would want game mods to be the ones to choose.

I personally hasn't considered the quote function being turned off. To be honest, I closed the game thread for the last game to stop the ascerbic posting we had seen previously in game threads this year once the game had ended.

As we have previously all discussed, it's TERRIBLE when the thread descends into accusations and/or insinuations against game mods who have spent months planning a game. AT LEAST that can't happen if the thread is closed and thus the game thread is insulated against bickering being there for new and old users to read when looking at past games.

But worth considering there could be a better way of sorting that without closing the thread.

Still a game mod choice imo though.

Baggly

Mollyb60 wrote:

FWIW I have no issue with a mega feedback thread. All discussion following a game can be directed there then rather than 10 seperate threads for each game. Game mods can choose to involve themselves or not depending on how they feel after the game. But it still allows people to discuss the game after it's ended. Although as Keith said (I think it was Keith), I don't agree with game threads being locked once they've concluded. What's the point?

What's the value of a feedback thread without the game mods. I mean there is value but not nearly as much.

'i wonder why the game mods did x and y. I thought that was good/bad/unfair/mad'

No game mod responds

'oh well'

Necro

Pter wrote: »

But worth considering there could be a better way of sorting that without closing the thread.

Still a game mod choice imo though.

Well that's why I was saying a general feedback thread might be worth exploring.

Kudos and thanks to the mods for their effort in each game goes in the game thread.

Posts about feedback go to feedback and can be moved by mods if necessary.

Problem with no feedback thread post game is there's nowhere else for people to discuss it bar here really post game, which leads to the other stuff in your post.

sKeith

Pter wrote: »

What's the value of a feedback thread without the game mods. I mean there is value but not nearly as much.

for feedback to the community and all future mods in how we all feel about stuff in the past game.

'i wonder why the game mods did x and y. I thought that was good/bad/unfair/mad'

thats feedback.

No game mod responds

'oh well'

which is why the game mods are welcome not to watch the feedback take place live.


you just done a full circle in one post!.

Baggly

I like constructive feedback and would never discourage it. I don't think that is actually happening in any of the recent feedback threads. So to the suggestion that feedback is being hampered or not encouraged, I just plain old disagree with.

What did happen in that last feedback thread was that feedback was a lot more civil and in line with the forum charter. I don't know if I was the op (which was largely the same as the previous feedback thread I setup, which still had acrimony) or whatever it was, but whether it's a mega thread or individual ones or whatever the game mods want, if your feedback is unconstructive, overly negative, snide or accusatory, it's not going to fly.

Maybe some people want hard grueling, unsugared, kick in the stomach feedback, but personally I don't. I don't see what's wrong with a bit of consideration for game mods.

Baggly

Keith did you just read the bits of my post that suited the narrative of posting that gif?

duffman13

Pter wrote: »

What's the value of a feedback thread without the game mods. I mean there is value but not nearly as much.

'i wonder why the game mods did x and y. I thought that was good/bad/unfair/mad'

No game mod responds

'oh well'

There is still some merit tbh, even for future mods to read through so they can gauge how some stuff was perceived or worked. Constructive criticism is always welcome even if the mods don't care.

After my two modding experiences I enjoyed the feedback threads as it gave me pointers were too tighten up. I've read a couple of bits and pieces from feedback in other games and using that info to not make the same "mistake" (for want of a better word).

Yes bits and pieces may not be answered if mods choose not too engage but someone saying I didn't like x mechanic or y role because it had this impact might point out to me an issue I may not of otherwise noticed and may make for better games in future.

I suppose at the end of the day once it's constructive I'm good with feedback and I'm partial to idea of a continuous thread.

Baggly

Pter wrote:

What's the value of a feedback thread without the game mods. I mean there is value but not nearly as much.

sKeith. Second sentence. Give her another read before you gif slam me again.

Necro

Pter wrote: »

I like constructive feedback and would never discourage it. I don't think that is actually happening in any of the recent feedback threads. So to the suggestion that feedback is being hampered or not encouraged, I just plain old disagree with.

What did happen in that last feedback thread was that feedback was a lot more civil and in line with the forum charter. I don't know if I was the op (which was largely the same as the previous feedback thread I setup, which still had acrimony) or whatever it was, but whether it's a mega thread or individual ones or whatever the game mods want, if your feedback is unconstructive, overly negative, snide or accusatory, it's not going to fly.

Maybe some people want hard grueling, unsugared, kick in the stomach feedback, but personally I don't. I don't see what's wrong with a bit of consideration for game mods.

I don't think anyone is looking for free reign to take swipes at game mods and the work they put in at all.

Totally agree that outright criticism is not conducive to encouraging mods to volunteer again.

Constructive feedback is what I'd expect. There are things I'd not do again in my games from listening to other players views after the game concludes. I think it's really important that people get a chance to air their views though, for as sKeith does say - to improve game quality and indeed player quality on boards as a whole.

Baggly

Necro wrote:

Kudos and thanks to the mods for their effort in each game goes in the game thread.

Posts about feedback go to feedback and can be moved by mods if necessary.

See we have done this before and still had bad blood in one or both threads. Or people demanding answers in the game thread. Or asking a question in both threads. Or general miscommunication because something was said in one thread and responded to in another.

You guys can make fun of me for asking you to take something to a particular thread, but that's why I do it.

Baggly

Necro wrote:

Constructive feedback is what I'd expect. There are things I'd not do again in my games from listening to other players views after the game concludes. I think it's really important that people get a chance to air their views though, for as sKeith does say - to improve game quality and indeed player quality on boards as a whole.

Yeah I guess you are right. Up to sully and I to do our jobs and keep it civil and constructive beyond that.

I'm coming from the pov that we haven't always seen feedback go that way. People haven't held back. People have made accusations of wrongdoing or worse against games. It's not something I like or want to see. There is a better way.

Necro

Pter wrote: »

You guys can make fun of me for asking you to take something to a particular thread, but that's why I do it.

Ah we love ya really Pter

Kolido

Just to add my tuppence worth. I'd be in agreement of having feedback threads, whether individual or mega. Maybe a mega thread would be less stressful for game mods, they might not feel the spotlight is on them so much.

Now saying that, I agree with Keith that game mods should not feel like its compulsory to participate, its more for the whole community to discuss each game and hopefully learn what worked and what didnt.

I'd also add that I didn't really get the idea of closing the game recently, if there is a feedback thread all discussions will move there anyway.

Necro

I just realised after all my talk about feedback threads, our game is up next :eek:

Guess I'll have to put my money where my mouth is then....

MrsFlushdraw

Just on Feedback, over on IPB, where I first played WW many moons ago, as soon as the game ended with the "who won" part, the thread was closed and straight away a thread was created saying "WW 40 - Life Begins - The Review"

Everything was discussed in that thread, the mods put the statistics up and the list of who was who and it went fine. I am not sure about a mega thread for feedback/review, as you won't go back to the beginning. Think how you feel when you play a game and miss D0 and arrive to 65256165 pages! it is totally daunting.

I would prefer a review straight after each game and then maybe links done in a Catalogue post to each game and review thread.
That is my tuppence worth anyway.

Bounty Hunter

Is this not already the general feedback thread in a way?

there is off topic for chat & game threads for games, so what else is left to discuss in the general werewolf thread?

Necro

Bounty Hunter wrote: »

Is this not already the general feedback thread in a way?

there is off topic for chat & game threads for games, so what else is left to discuss in the general werewolf thread?

I think by default at present everything ends up here, which to the casual viewer if there's a dispute about technical stuff/game mechanics it can seem unsavoury.

The feedback would be each game specific, what people liked, how some think a use of a role or mechanic could perhaps be improved. Stuff like that.

I suppose you have a point in that this is kind of a catch 'em all type thread so perhaps the threads should be game specific as Flushy above mentioned.

Kolido

Not sure if this has been suggested but could we use the game threads themselves as a feedback section at the end. It could be catelogued in the op where the feedback begins so its easy to find.

Another 2 suggestions I'd like to put forward ( I think they may have been mentioned already) is a dedicated yearly thread that summerises each game (summary can be submitted by game mods). Summary could contain, amoung other things, player/role list, key points in the game, maybe a list of each kill, and a list of content submitted to the wolfies. I guess another option here could be to place all this info in the wiki pages.
My final point is the creation of a rolling wolfies submission thread, I think this was suggested by Keithy already.

I'm not sure if its either possible or feasible

But could the werewolf forum have its own Anon subforum where anon games are played and only the anon accounts and a game mod account could be able to post.

It would cut out all the accidental posting, with 3 game mods a game we would never lose the password (but they would have to change it each game) and if it was possible Petr and sullys account could be blocked (no idea if possible)

Then just move the game back into the werewolf forum after its over, I know its not overly a big deal but it would cut out non mods posting in normal accounts and possibly outside (forum games) mods posting in their own accounts

sKeith

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm not sure if its either possible or feasible

But could the werewolf forum have its own Anon subforum where anon games are played and only the anon accounts and a game mod account could be able to post.

It would cut out all the accidental posting, with 3 game mods a game we would never lose the password (but they would have to change it each game) and if it was possible Petr and sullys account could be blocked (no idea if possible)

Then just move the game back into the werewolf forum after its over, I know its not overly a big deal but it would cut out non mods posting in normal accounts and possibly outside (forum games) mods posting in their own accounts

very good proposal, if it would be considered, i back the proposal.

quickbeam

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm not sure if its either possible or feasible

But could the werewolf forum have its own Anon subforum where anon games are played and only the anon accounts and a game mod account could be able to post.

It would cut out all the accidental posting, with 3 game mods a game we would never lose the password (but they would have to change it each game) and if it was possible Petr and sullys account could be blocked (no idea if possible)

Then just move the game back into the werewolf forum after its over, I know its not overly a big deal but it would cut out non mods posting in normal accounts and possibly outside (forum games) mods posting in their own accounts

But then we'd miss out on the LOLs of somebody posting from the wrong account and the Pter Award would go defunct!!

I mean, posters posting in their own accounts during anon games can't be *that* big an issue, is it?

sullivlo

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm not sure if its either possible or feasible

But could the werewolf forum have its own Anon subforum where anon games are played and only the anon accounts and a game mod account could be able to post.

It would cut out all the accidental posting, with 3 game mods a game we would never lose the password (but they would have to change it each game) and if it was possible Petr and sullys account could be blocked (no idea if possible)

Then just move the game back into the werewolf forum after its over, I know its not overly a big deal but it would cut out non mods posting in normal accounts and possibly outside (forum games) mods posting in their own accounts

Not possible.

Easiest option is to remove access for any poster who is at risk of doing a pter. But as qb said is it *really* that much of an issue?

Kolido

Could just remove everyone's access to the wolf forum and add it when they play non anon games, which aren't that many these days. I wouldn't have thought it was a big issue either though.

sullivlo

Kolido wrote: »

Could just remove everyone's access to the wolf forum and add it when they play non anon games, which aren't that many these days. I wouldn't have thought it was a big issue either though.

Has potential to cause problems if a mod isn’t around to grant access. The live game last week was a classic example. Had I not been around, skeith could not have played.

sKeith

quickbeam wrote: »

But then we'd miss out on the LOLs of somebody posting from the wrong account and the Pter Award would go defunct!!

I mean, posters posting in their own accounts during anon games can't be *that* big an issue, is it?

Somebody coming up with possible solutions to issues we have with our games is good. If there is a bug, people trying to resolve it should always be welcomed, although, sully has informed us that this direction won't work, but this should not discourage others from trying to sow up bugs that we may have in our games, even if some people don't see them as "big" issues. Like if someone told you a way to get a small q on the wiki, that would be a good thing in your eyes, but 95% of people would go, sure that's not a "big" issue.



If it was possible to completely remove the possibility of people posting from the wrong accounts by accident, and we didn't use it, then I would have an issue with us not using it, just so we can keep giving awards that praises people for doing something that they shouldn't be doing in the first place.

sKeith

Triceratops Ballet wrote: »

is that something you can really award a title for, like there is no action on the part of the participant, where all other categories (afaik) including chattiest evil require the payer to actually do something.

Plus in the event the mods might assign roles rather than rand them in some games could artificially alter that?

Acceptable IMHO.
Full Rand.
Randing one alpha and have alpha pick a few more before randing the rest.


Really should not happen in 2019 as we should have all learnt why its not a good thing after that one game in 2018 that didn't do a rand.
Mods picking the player to fit in the roles.


Can please all agree not to do that again.

Baggly

Why was it not a good thing? Game went well. Weren't any issues with player selection. There was full transparency.

So in answer to your question, no, we cant all agree not to do it again. I wont do it every game but i dont understand the issue to have it as an option.