Werewolf discussion thread

MrsFlushdraw

Drumpot wrote: »

I’m not sure if I clarified my point. I don’t mind people leading the village and taking over things. But there are more passive or less antagonising ways of doing it (that I wouldn’t personally classify you in that bracket).

Maybe it’s just me but I didn’t find your methods or tactics in anyway trying to put me to one side or dismissive or annoying. I didn’t know Jack at all before the game and was thankful that he stepped aside so I could be subbed in at the start of the game. But there was something about his methods that reminded me of the way a person in 5 aside snaps at team mates when they aren’t performing to their instructions. A sort of “i know best now just do what I say or get out of my way” type of player. I don’t get that from you or any other players to be honest.

Maybe I’m just a sensitive player when it comes to that kind of play style and my comments were OTT for this kind of game. I suppose im just giving my own personal feedback.

You are spot on in the first paragraph.

I was trying to grow some balls as they say. And that was why I was saying that Jack was being bossy etc in the first place, subbing in and making demands. I have always been kind of scared to antagonise him due to our whole past when he was Tigger etc. So I tried to avoid any confrontation at all with him. But I stupidly, this game, decided to say something. Which I felt terrible for as it resulted in him leaving the game and closing the game.

I then suggested we all voted to lynch him that night to help the Mods out and that was the final nail in my wolfy hide coffin! I would have said the same if I was a villager! as it was guilt driven for wrecking the game. It is horrible when you have done/said something that results in giving the game mods such headaches. I know myself how hard it is to Mod games and when stuff like that happens, it is just a nightmare.

I am trying to not take things to heart and not be sensitive, but it can be difficult at times.

beakerjoe

<snip>

Baggly

Forum mod hat

Lads, I had hoped we could discuss the rule breakages and not the breaker, so that maybe we can avoid repeats in future.

However it's not fair to discuss someone who cannot reply.

No more chat about Jack please.

Relayed post has been removed, follow up post from BJ removed.

sKeith

Yes, please lets discuss the rule breakage that deserves a 9 month ban?

A sub, who let another player go in front of them in the sub queue, who joins the game, is personally abused ( in exactly the same way as was done in the previous game) for AGAIN rightly pointing out that a player is a wolf and and that wolfs only defense is to immediatly bring it to a personal level with them instead of fighting the posts as you should when playing the game, gets a free pass, so, instead of returning the personal abuse, they do the bigger thing and bow out of the tit for tat personal abuse and says, heck, i'm not engaging and getting carded, so please sub me out and somehow that deserves getting a 9 month ban.

Would you have prefered to see them mutually personally abuse each other versus one side saying, let me out of here.

would yous ever cop on!

What is wrong with the moderation of this fine community? If you want a player to leave, dont make up nonsense, just say, look, we dont like you, please go play somewhere else.

sullivlo

Mod

If anyone has an issue with how forum moderation is performed, please take it to PM.

Pawwed Rig

sKeith wrote: »

Yes, please lets discuss the rule breakage that deserves a 9 month ban?

A sub, who let another player go in front of them in the sub queue, who joins the game, is personally abused ( in exactly the same way as was done in the previous game) for AGAIN rightly pointing out that a player is a wolf and and that wolfs only defense is to immediatly bring it to a personal level with them instead of fighting the posts as you should when playing the game, gets a free pass, so, instead of returning the personal abuse, they do the bigger thing and bow out of the tit for tat personal abuse and says, heck, i'm not engaging and getting carded, so please sub me out and somehow that deserves getting a 9 month ban.

Would you have prefered to see them mutually personally abuse each other versus one side saying, let me out of here.

would yous ever cop on!

What is wrong with the moderation of this fine community? If you want a player to leave, dont make up nonsense, just say, look, we dont like you, please go play somewhere else.

The length of a ban does not always reflect the actions that warranted it. There is little point, for example, in issuing 100 yellow cards to an individual. Mod actions in general need to get progressively heavier where posters will not or cannot reign in unacceptable behaviour.

I will review the reported posts from the last 3 weeks to see where the personal abuse arose and determine what actions if any should be taken.

As Sull says there will be no discussion of posters who are not here to defend themselves.

Also this is not the forum to discuss moderation. There is a feedback forum for this.

Drumpot

I had written a quite long response to SKeith but instead would prefer to ask what exactly is fair game?

I’ve seen tactics in games and sometimes, depending on the poster , it’s seemed ok and others it’s been a bit of a mystery.

- I’m working busy, RL stuff
- previous games styles - eg people mentioned stu’s Read on me (anon fixes this a bit but people’s play styles can give them away)
- full out argument Necro v papa palpatine
- calling something/somebody stupid/ idiotic or forcefully reacting to an accusation

The last one is an interesting one because this can be an issue or non issue depending on the relationship between the players.

beakerjoe

Drumpot wrote: »

I had written a quite long response to SKeith but instead would prefer to ask what exactly is fair game?

I’ve seen tactics in games and sometimes, depending on the poster , it’s seemed ok and others it’s been a bit of a mystery.

- I’m working busy, RL stuff
- previous games styles - eg people mentioned stu’s Read on me (anon fixes this a bit but people’s play styles can give them away)
- full out argument Necro v papa palpatine
- calling something/somebody stupid/ idiotic or forcefully reacting to an accusation

The last one is an interesting one because this can be an issue or non issue depending on the relationship between the players.

The last one , it should be expected that some name calling be involved once it doesnt go too far. That said, where is the line.....

Baggly

Lads the abuse rule is each of the last 4 games was changed to address this. There is a process there for any issues with name calling.

beakerjoe

Pter wrote: »

Lads the abuse rule is each of the last 4 games was changed to address this. There is a process there for any issues with name calling.

I know but I think calling a player a fool for leading the village or an inaccorect decision should be fair but callinh someone much more harsher things is where the line is.

I felt I crossed the line in the last game in the heat if it calling Lough a moron. I apologised. I think thats out of line.

Baggly

beakerjoe wrote:

I know but I think calling a player a fool for leading the village or an inaccorect decision should be fair but callinh someone much more harsher things is where the line is.

You can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that's what the rule says.

beakerjoe

Pter wrote: »

You can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that's what the rule says.

I might not have been clear.

Lets say Nevro is claiming to be a clock, Pter ssy I believe him

Drumoot says your a fool Pter for believing Necro.

Is thsy fair gsme?

sKeith

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

The length of a ban does not always reflect the actions that warranted it. There is little point, for example, in issuing 100 yellow cards to an individual. Mod actions in general need to get progressively heavier where posters will not or cannot reign in unacceptable behaviour.

I will review the reported posts from the last 3 weeks to see where the personal abuse arose and determine what actions if any should be taken.

As Sull says there will be no discussion of posters who are not here to defend themselves.

Also this is not the forum to discuss moderation. There is a feedback forum for this.

>>Yes, please lets discuss the rule breakage that deserves a 9 month ban?

Pter invited this discussion here, why move it elsewhere? (#1264, line 2)

Maybe my last post was tooooo long and went onto others behavior, so let's reign that in. What was the rule breakage, that got a user banned for whatever lenght of of time. Is it a ww ban or a boards ban? If a ww ban, why was I not consulted for this ban, I never appointed anyone to rule over our ww community and think we should have had a discussion over whether we should ww ban a user. If it's a boards ban, well fair enough do it in your own way.

Pawwed Rig

You've lost me tbh

Baggly

beakerjoe wrote:

Is thsy fair gsme?

Look at the rule. There is a process there. If the person being called a fool has a problem, they say so to the mods and we take it from there. Unless it's excessive abuse, which that isn't, I don't see there being a problem.

The forum gets a decent amount of latitude with regards to ribbing and light name calling. I have had others tell me they don't know why it's put up with and that aspect turns them off the game. To balance this pov with some latitude for playing the game as we have done, the consultation process and guidelines in that rule are the way to go, imo, rather than us listing out a list of things that are and aren't acceptable.

Baggly

sKeith wrote:

Pter invited this discussion here, why move it elsewhere? (#1264, line 2)

Keith, I want to discuss game rules....like we do after every game.

You seem to want to discuss forum moderation and application of boards rules.

One is for this forum, one isn't.

sKeith

Pter wrote: »

Keith, I want to discuss game rules....like we do after every game.

You seem to want to discuss forum moderation and application of boards rules.

One is for this forum, one isn't.

I couldn't give 2 sh.ts about forum moderation.


Simple as this, WHAT RULE WAS BROKEN. If it was a ww rule, it is not in the scope of a boards mod to punish, it is up to our ww community.
If it was a boards rule, fair enough, carry on.

Baggly

sKeith wrote:

Simple as this, WHAT RULE WAS BROKEN. If it was a ww rule, it is not in the scope of a boards mod to punish, it is up to our ww community. If it was a boards rule, fair enough, carry on.

Calm it down Keith.

Boards rules and game rules aren't mutually exclusive. And you know it. The abuse rule is one example.

But aside from anything else, I started a discussion around angleshooting for the community to discuss. Now you haven't really engaged with that discussion other than to relay a message from another. Instead you have come in here and been very very aggressive towards the forum mods.

Let me also be VERY clear. We dont discuss disciplinary issues with anyone except the person in question. That someone may have shared their side of the story with you outside of boards isn't up to us. But it doesn't change that we won't discuss the discinplinary process with a third person. So without getting into such specifics, the forum mods have taken the action we are tasked with taking. When boards rules are broken, the parties involved will have the breakage explained to them. That's what's happened here.

Baggly

And sKeith you should care about forum moderation.

Our community is hosted on boards. You and everyone else are subject to the same rules. Those rules are the mods to enforce and regulate. If players consistently abuse game rules that comes under the remit of bad behaviour in the forum. There is nowhere on boards that allows consistent bad behaviour. Nowhere.

Uriel.

beakerjoe wrote: »

I might not have been clear.

Lets say Nevro is claiming to be a clock, Pter ssy I believe him

Drumoot says your a fool Pter for believing Necro.

Is thsy fair gsme?

I think it's fair game.
I personally think you'd be seriously sensitive to have an issue with that, but I accept everyone has different thresholds.
But if you don't like it, there's a process to handle it and the mods can handle it and it should cease.
The process is the most important aspect and consistent application.
The Game, by its nature, affords players to enter a game world/alternative reality and it is just a game after all. I wouldnt be taking anything too personally. I'd hate to see a game santised so much, and I think both game and forum mods have done a great job of allowing balance and avoiding extreme behaviour.

deconduo

beakerjoe wrote: »

I might not have been clear.

Lets say Nevro is claiming to be a clock, Pter ssy I believe him

Drumoot says your a fool Pter for believing Necro.

Is thsy fair gsme?

While fool is a mild insult, I think following the 'attack the post not the poster' rule is best approach. In this case, a better phrasing might be:

'I think you're wrong, it's foolish to believe Necro is a clock.'


While it can be hard to stick with it in the heat of the moment, it's better to take a step back, think about it, and maybe reword the post.

Remember it's just a game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzpndHtdl9A

Necro

But... I was a clock :eek:

:P

sKeith

Pter wrote: »

Calm it down Keith.

Boards rules and game rules aren't mutually exclusive. And you know it. The abuse rule is one example.

But aside from anything else, I started a discussion around angleshooting for the community to discuss. Now you haven't really engaged with that discussion other than to relay a message from another. Instead you have come in here and been very very aggressive towards the forum mods.

Let me also be VERY clear. We dont discuss disciplinary issues with anyone except the person in question. That someone may have shared their side of the story with you outside of boards isn't up to us. But it doesn't change that we won't discuss the discinplinary process with a third person. So without getting into such specifics, the forum mods have taken the action we are tasked with taking. When boards rules are broken, the parties involved will have the breakage explained to them. That's what's happened here.

rules are not mutally exclusive, okay, but some rules are not under the remit of site mods or cmod or admins.


For this example, lets make boards.ie our nation state, and admins are the goverment and cmods are the garda, and mods are the pub bouncers.


We are playing a game of werewolf in a pub called boards.ie and somebody opens their eyes and peeks around the table when they shouldnt have, they have broken a rule, but i believe that is within the scope of the people sitting around the table to sort out. The bouncers, even if they are playing in the game should not have anymore say in the punishment as the person next to them, its a community of like minded people who came together into this pub to play ww. If they are being rowdy and loud mouthed, sure the bouncers can eject them, if they stab somebody, sure call the garda, but the garda and the bouncers should not be doling out punishment for game related rule breakages, that is up to our community to discuss and take action over.

Hence, me asking if it was a ww rule or a forum rule that was broken.


If it was a ww rule, then you have overstepped and should know better.


Hope my example here shows what i am trying to get across, and my posts are not agressive in any way, the caps and underline was for emphasis, because you seem to dance around the question i am asking, and spouting forum mod stuff that i have zero interest in.

Digital Solitude

Pter wrote: »

Let me also be VERY clear. We dont discuss disciplinary issues with anyone except the person in question. That someone may have shared their side of the story with you outside of boards isn't up to us. But it doesn't change that we won't discuss the discinplinary process with a third person. So without getting into such specifics, the forum mods have taken the action we are tasked with taking. When boards rules are broken, the parties involved will have the breakage explained to them. That's what's happened here.

How are we to discuss rulebreaking if only the banned party knows what the broken rule was? This is all over the place lads, and all contradicting each other

Baggly

Digital Solitude wrote:

How are we to discuss rulebreaking if only the banned party knows what the broken rule was? This is all over the place lads, and all contradicting each other

This discussion started with me asking about angleshooting and quitting without talking to mods. That's what needs to be discussed.

sKeith

Pter wrote: »

Calm it down Keith.

Boards rules and game rules aren't mutually exclusive. And you know it. The abuse rule is one example.

But aside from anything else, I started a discussion around angleshooting for the community to discuss. Now you haven't really engaged with that discussion other than to relay a message from another. Instead you have come in here and been very very aggressive towards the forum mods.

Let me also be VERY clear. We dont discuss disciplinary issues with anyone except the person in question. That someone may have shared their side of the story with you outside of boards isn't up to us. But it doesn't change that we won't discuss the discinplinary process with a third person. So without getting into such specifics, the forum mods have taken the action we are tasked with taking. When boards rules are broken, the parties involved will have the breakage explained to them. That's what's happened here.

Can you show me where you started this discussion re: angleshooting?

You used the words rule breakages, don't see any mention of angleshooting, which by the way, would be a 100% ww rule.

pter wrote:

Lads, I had hoped we could discuss the rule breakages and not the breaker, so that maybe we can avoid repeats in future.

Baggly

sKeith wrote:

Hope my example here shows what i am trying to get across, and my posts are not agressive in any way, the caps and underline was for emphasis, because you seem to dance around the question i am asking, and spouting forum mod stuff that i have zero interest in.

What question!? You came in here making accusations and saying you care not for forum moderation. You have done this before and I've warned you about it

I honestly can't tell if you are taking the piss or not. Your example isn't accurate at all and I know you are an intelligent person so I'd have to guess the inaccuracy is intentional.

Pawwed said it. If you think mods have overstepped the mark go to the feedback forum.

We haven't is my interpretation.

Necro

Only thing is, sKeith, we are actually only here by the good graces of the site owners.

So to take your example, the bouncers have to get involved so as to make sure the guards and the government don't kick us out of our little pub and tell us to F off.

I mean we can discuss in-game breakages but the mods also have to police them.

Digital Solitude

Pter wrote: »

This discussion started with me asking about angleshooting and quitting without talking to mods. That's what needs to be discussed.

Angleshooting should be fair game, goes both ways, MrsFD and Jack were in it together in different ways in this case.

Quitting without talking to mods is ****, its impossible to enforce fairly I think though. Had Jack ghosted the thread and then came back after a couple days with a "sorry life is hectic could not play" as we've seen many people do, there wouldn't be a word about it. If it were a regular thing, then yes absolutely bans should be handed out but this looks to me like punishment for not playing it cute enough

sKeith

Pter wrote: »

This discussion started with me asking about angleshooting and quitting without talking to mods. That's what needs to be discussed.

Angleshooting is your own opinion, not one i would agree with.
Subbing out has been done before, and as game was non anon, its going to be fairly obvious that somebody subbed out, so unlike a anon game, don't see the major harm in doing that on thread.


All WW rules stuff, and things that we can discuss and figure out punishment over.