Lions 2017 [MOD WARNING IN OP]

Tigerandahalf

Did Cronin ever play in the prop positions?

He used to play Gaelic for one of the senior city clubs in Limerick so I think he might not have a huge background.

You notice a lot of the converted hookers are poor at throwing the ball.

I guess it is a skill built up from when a kid.

irishman86

Bridge93 wrote: »

I see it being Best Owens and one of the English, hopefully George. If 4 hookers were going I think Cronin would have a decent shout. But going with only two guys who could potentially start is a risk.

Hartley or George will travel over Cronin. I think Owens will start myself, even though I like George more

The Lost Sheep

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

Did Cronin ever play in the prop positions?

He used to play Gaelic for one of the senior city clubs in Limerick so I think he might not have a huge background.

You notice a lot of the converted hookers are poor at throwing the ball.

I guess it is a skill built up from when a kid.

No i dont think he did play prop. Was hooker in age grade.
He probably did play gaelic but so do a lot in limerick playing all sports... He does have plenty of background as hooker and in the game. Played club and schools rugby there and also all national team appearances have been as a 2.

pickarooney

Assuming Hartley gets banned for mooning the video ref before the end of the season and three hookers travel, I'd have Cronin as first injury reserve.

Buer

10 days before the squad is named so I'll take a shot at it. Think Faletau has given Gatland his excuse now with MOTM yesterday. He's desperate for a reason to bring him.

Hookers: Best, Owens, Hartley
Props, McGrath, Healy, Furlong, Vunipola, Sinckler, Cole (I think we might well see a left field pick here though, don't rule out someone like John Ryan who can cover both sides).
Locks: Itoje, Henderson, Launchbury, AWJ, Johnny Gray
Back row: Vunipola, Warburton, Tipuric, Stander, SOB, Faletau, POM (straight call between POM and Moriarty for last spot)
Scrum half: Murray, Webb, Youngs
Outhalf: Sexton, Farrell, Carbery
Centre: Henshaw, Joseph, Davies, Payne
Wingers: Watson, North, Liam Williams, Daly
Full Back: Hogg, Halfpenny

I think we'll see a surprise in the backs and it will be someone who can play outhalf but cover elsewhere. That means someone from Carbery, Cipriani, Laidlaw, Sam Davies etc. It's left field but I reckon his showing last week plus having played against NZ this season could see Carbery get a call.

Payne is another one that probably stands out but I'm trying to see it from Gatland's perspective. He's a senior player, very good communicator, can play 13 or 15 to test level and has strong knowledge of NZ rugby having played for three of their Super Rugby teams. Ringrose unlucky to miss out. Could well be him instead of Joseph but I think Gatland will go for the more established player.

Tigerandahalf

Did anyone see the clip of Furlong doing the rounds on social media of him playing full back in an u14 game. He was certainly a fine block of a lad for the full back position.

I see Brian O'Driscoll bigging up a guy I mentioned here a few weeks back - Denny Solomona who plays for Sale.

The Lions have a history of bringing a league player - he is a possibility given the lack of flair in the backline. He is also a NZ native.

awec

Buer wrote: »

10 days before the squad is named so I'll take a shot at it. Think Faletau has given Gatland his excuse now with MOTM yesterday. He's desperate for a reason to bring him.

Hookers: Best, Owens, Hartley
Props, McGrath, Healy, Furlong, Vunipola, Sinckler, Cole (I think we might well see a left field pick here though, don't rule out someone like John Ryan who can cover both sides).
Locks: Itoje, Henderson, Launchbury, AWJ, Johnny Gray
Back row: Vunipola, Warburton, Tipuric, Stander, SOB, Faletau, POM (straight call between POM and Moriarty for last spot)
Scrum half: Murray, Webb, Youngs
Outhalf: Sexton, Farrell, Carbery
Centre: Henshaw, Joseph, Davies, Payne
Wingers: Watson, North, Liam Williams, Daly
Full Back: Hogg, Halfpenny

I think we'll see a surprise in the backs and it will be someone who can play outhalf but cover elsewhere. That means someone from Carbery, Cipriani, Laidlaw, Sam Davies etc. It's left field but I reckon his showing last week plus having played against NZ this season could see Carbery get a call.

Payne is another one that probably stands out but I'm trying to see it from Gatland's perspective. He's a senior player, very good communicator, can play 13 or 15 to test level and has strong knowledge of NZ rugby having played for three of their Super Rugby teams. Ringrose unlucky to miss out. Could well be him instead of Joseph but I think Gatland will go for the more established player.

Granted I haven't seen any rugby for a few weeks but unless Joey Carbery has put in some sort of watershed performance of unbelievable proportions I don't see him having a sniff.

Farrell will go as a 10/12 player but he has to have a very good chance of being the 12 in the tests which means the other outhalf is going to be benching in those games. Is he really going to select a young lad who has barely played long enough at 10 at test level to even get his shorts dirty? I doubt it.

Tommy Seymour will be unlucky if he misses out too, form winger this year.

awec

awec wrote: »

Granted I haven't seen any rugby for a few weeks but unless Joey Carbery has put in some sort of watershed performance of unbelievable proportions I don't see him having a sniff.

Farrell will go as a 10/12 player but he has to have a very good chance of being the 12 in the tests which means the other outhalf is going to be benching in those games. Is he really going to select a young lad who has barely played long enough at 10 at test level to even get his shorts dirty? I doubt it.

Well Carbery was pretty brilliant against Wasps last weekend, two assists and was the official MotM (though imo Ringrose was the best player on the pitch). Followed that up by being fairly understated against Ospreys, his kicking was probably the most notable aspect tbh, pinned them back a few times. I don't think he'll go though.

Farrell will be starting the first test if he's fit, I would be willing to bet. Sexton at 10 and Farrell at 12.

Buer

England have no outhalf on the bench. Nor did Leinster against Wasps as Carbery was the back up on the field. Carbery was pretty brilliant on the day, outplaying all the Wasps backs.

I think he's an outside bet but I can see a surprise coming for that spot.

Rightwing

awec wrote: »

Granted I haven't seen any rugby for a few weeks but unless Joey Carbery has put in some sort of watershed performance of unbelievable proportions I don't see him having a sniff.

Farrell will go as a 10/12 player but he has to have a very good chance of being the 12 in the tests which means the other outhalf is going to be benching in those games. Is he really going to select a young lad who has barely played long enough at 10 at test level to even get his shorts dirty? I doubt it.

Tommy Seymour will be unlucky if he misses out too, form winger this year.

Agreed, Gatland has lost his marbles if he makes it.

awec

England don't have an outhalf as fragile as Sexton.

And a home champions cup game is a bit different to a Lions tour, if Sexton had injured himself brushing his teeth that morning Leinster could at least have brought another 10 in immediately. Not really possible on the other side of the planet.

CIARAN_BOYLE

Rightwing wrote: »

Agreed, Gatland has lost his marbles if he makes it.

If Farrell is being brought as a 12, there will probably be 4 10s in the squad (including Farrell, and another 10 must be able to cover another position for the mid-week team).

awec

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

If Farrell is being brought as a 12, there will probably be 4 10s in the squad (including Farrell, and another 10 must be able to cover another position for the mid-week team).

He only brought 2 proper 10s last time (Sexton and Farrell) with Hogg as the extra cover.

Of course, the super 15 games this time are going to be a lot more difficult. Doubt you'll see someone like Hogg starting at 10 in any of them.

.ak

Carbery is a bit of a freak, I can't think of many players that have stepped out of an academy and into senior and international footy and not bat an eyelid. He didn't look out of place against NZ or Australia and played at outhalf and fullback, winning both games. He'll absolutely be on the discussion table this week, and whilst he would be a leftfield call it certainly would be a logical one.

awec

awec wrote: »

And a home champions cup game is a bit different to a Lions tour, if Sexton had injured himself brushing his teeth that morning Leinster could at least have brought another 10 in immediately. Not really possible on the other side of the planet.

What's the point in asking about his performances if you're just going to dismiss them, all while not having seen any of it

I will reiterate I don't think he'll make it, but he certainly would be a valuable squad member for the Super Rugby opposition. And I know it was only 20 minutes but the fact he closed out a win again NZ wouldn't have gone unnoticed. I'm sure it's unlikely but not impossible.

awec

Billy Beautiful Guillotine wrote: »

What's the point in asking about his performances if you're just going to dismiss them, all while not having seen any of it

I will reiterate I don't think he'll make it, but he certainly would be a valuable squad member for the Super rugby opposition. And I know it was only 20 minutes but the fact he closed out a win again NZ wouldn't have gone unnoticed. I'm sure it's unlikely but not impossible.

Now I'm confused. I dismissed them?

I thought I just pointed out that Leinster having no 10 on the bench wasn't really that good a comparison in this situation.

CIARAN_BOYLE

awec wrote: »

He only brought 2 proper 10s last time (Sexton and Farrell) with Hogg as the extra cover.

Of course, the super 15 games this time are going to be a lot more difficult. Doubt you'll see someone like Hogg starting at 10 in any of them.

The thing is Farrell is actually likely to start as a 12 for the Lions this time so will be considered more a 12 than a 10, also with the quality of the opposition we need an actual 10 as opposed to a bolt on on emergency cover utility back with a decent footballing brain.

Rightwing

Ringrose is another who won't make it. Wasn't overly impressed with him at all during the 6N. Tried and trusted international players are what is required for this tour.
Maybe in 4 years time Carberry & Ringrose will be in with a shout.

awec

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

The thing is Farrell is actually likely to start as a 12 for the Lions this time so will be considered more a 12 than a 10, also with the quality of the opposition we need an actual 10 as opposed to a bolt on on emergency cover utility back with a decent footballing brain.

Yep, the tour schedule this time is a bit insane, with the exception of the first game (when he's going to want to give guys a run out anyway) it's going to be very tough to manage with 37 players.

To bring 3 10s means ditching someone somewhere else. If Liam Williams travels then you could possibly ditch a full back (he brought 3 last time) for another 10.

CIARAN_BOYLE

awec wrote: »

Yep, the tour schedule this time is a bit insane, with the exception of the first game (when he's going to want to give guys a run out anyway) it's going to be very tough to manage with 37 players.

To bring 3 10s means ditching someone somewhere else. If Liam Williams travels then you could possibly ditch a full back (he brought 3 last time) for another 10.

Have they committed to a 37 man squad? I had a feeling it might be a little bigger this time.

.ak

awec wrote: »

Yep, the tour schedule this time is a bit insane, with the exception of the first game (when he's going to want to give guys a run out anyway) it's going to be very tough to manage with 37 players.

To bring 3 10s means ditching someone somewhere else. If Liam Williams travels then you could possibly ditch a full back (he brought 3 last time) for another 10.

Which is why guys who can play two positions will be considered where applicable.

awec

.ak wrote: »

Which is why guys who can play two positions will be considered where applicable.

Sure, but to the extent that Carbery travels? I can't see it personally, still too much of a test novice.

Even though he's been rubbish I see Biggar as a way more likely pick if he wants an extra 10.

.ak

I don't see it either, but it's not crazy if he does go.

awec

awec wrote: »

Now I'm confused. I dismissed them?

I thought I just pointed out that Leinster having no 10 on the bench wasn't really that good a comparison in this situation.

Fair enough, I read you saying "a Champions Cup game is different to a Lions test" was referring to the match/opposition etc. If it wasn't then I just misunderstood.

I actually would have had Ross Byrne on the bench fwiw, Kirchner only got a sympathy run on for about 60 seconds.

thomond2006

Is there a reason why Gatland wouldn't use Hogg as an auxiliary 10 again?

pickarooney

Does nobody think Jackson has a chance?

Erik Shin

pickarooney wrote: »

Does nobody think Jackson has a chance?

Not even his mammy

whatawaster

thomond2006 wrote: »

Is there a reason why Gatland wouldn't use Hogg as an auxiliary 10 again?

Two reasons i would venture.

1 is that he is likely to be the test 15 so won't be risked in midweek games.

2 is that he never plays 10 and it is a very important position in matches against top quality opposition

I would say either Ford or Biggar will travel

Bridge93

A third reason would that it failed miserably as an experiment the first time. He was not a 10 and it didn't work. It was a waste of game time that could've gone to someone who knew what they were doing and took gametime away from Hogg at 15 potentially. Having gained no more experience there in the intervening time it would be mad to do it again

pickarooney

pickarooney wrote: »

Does nobody think Jackson has a chance?

Not a snowball's.