Cross Country Training + Racing 2016/17

Sacksian

Having missed the track season through injury, I've been looking forward to xc to save 2016 for me! So, with the initial 2016/17 XC fixtures out, I thought I'd stick up a thread for discussion of training and racing: http://www.athleticsireland.ie/competition/fixtures/

I'm not sure how definite these are but, interestingly, it looks like there has been a rejig of the Leinster Champs with Senior & Novice on the same day, which I think is a really good call, and then Leinster Intermediate & Masters on the same day in January. It means that there's a proper delineation of the two grades + distances and will presumably mean bigger numbers for Senior and Intermediate than there normally are.

The National Inters and Masters are now on separate days too in 2017, which should give a bump in numbers for the inters (given the usual numbers in the masters when they're held on the same day).

Dublin Novice will presumably be 2nd October, Senior 6th November and Intermediate is usually the week before the Novice (which seems to be a week later this year on the 11th December.

Looking forward to seeing where the Inter-Clubs is - have heard that the new National Cross Country Track in Abbottstown will be used (Autumn Open XC as well, possibly). I guess it could be used for the Novice too, although it does sound like it's going to be fairly flat and I've enjoyed seeing a few different courses in the past few years.

What's everyone targeting/doing this year?

Personally, I won't make any September/October races, but hopefully get to do the National Novice and a few in the New Year (unless the new National Indoor Arena in Abbottstown is ready, in which case focus could change very quickly!).

youngrun

Masters Trial is in Abbotstown /and doubles as the Autumn Open XC 16 Oct,
possible the Interclubs is too, but Santry is surely a way better and more atmospheric venue....
Only one National senior race this year, season over by November for a lot which is a joke but that was the vote..
Reckon I might try and run a few of the UK races post xmas , anyone done them ? .

Sacksian

youngrun wrote: »

Masters Trial is in Abbotstown /and doubles as the Autumn Open XC 16 Oct,
possible the Interclubs is too, but Santry is surely a way better and more atmospheric venue....
Only one National senior race this year, season over by November for a lot which is a joke but that was the vote..
Reckon I might try and run a few of the UK races post xmas , anyone done them ? .

Santry is a brilliant venue, both in terms of atmosphere and accessibility (always decent crowds), but it'd be great if Abbotstown works out as a place to train, race and watch athletics. I am wondering what the course will look like in terms of profile though - they'll have to stick in some eurocross-style hills, barriers, etc??

As regards the short season, I'm not sure what the answer is, unless the xc league actually happens. There are probably quite a few guys who are out of novice and inter a while and don't see interclubs as an option.

Re: UK races - a few guys in our club have done some of the massive Parliament Hill races, but I think they've a connection with a UK club.

KielyUnusual

As ever with XC, I'm not sure if I'm really looking forward to it but there is definitely something about it I enjoy, probably just finishing the races .

My big aim this winter is to up the mileage considerably and try to work toward consistent 80 mile weeks. Would like to think that this would be a benefit for cross country. Other than that, I'll be reducing the intensity in our Tuesday track sessions and focussing on tempos and hills.

Racing wise, I'm not eligible for Dublin Novice so National Novice will be the main aim. Seems like everything is squeezed in to about a month and a half period (late August to early November) so difficult to know what other races to aim for. Presumably the National Intermediate is on in the new year so that's one I always enjoy.

The BHAA races are always good for a bit of race sharpness and the Garda XC in the Phoenix Park is a great end of XC season affair (usually Feb/Mar).

I'll maybe try and put up a calendar once a few more races are announced.

micraX

Yep it's in abbotstown alright.. Another bit of the good ground wasted on sports.. Was 350 working acers there when it was let out in 2009 now lest than 140..

Wild Garlic

micraX wrote: »

Yep it's in abbotstown alright.. Another bit of the good ground wasted on sports.. Was 350 working acers there when it was let out in 2009 now lest than 140..

Funny place for 350 laptops

Cartman78

Any tips, do's & don'ts etc. for a complete novice??

Getting my head around the footwear requirements but literally haven't a clue about training and racing

Have a meeting with my club later in the week so should know more after that but would be interested to hear other people's experiences of starting off in XC.

cheers cm

Coffee Fulled Runner

This is something I'd love to do but there isn't any interest in it at senior level at my club.

RayCun

Coffee Fulled Runner wrote: »

This is something I'd love to do but there isn't any interest in it at senior level at my club.

If you're in Dublin, BHAA have a winter series of cross country races

Dubgal72

Cartman78 wrote: »

Any tips, do's & don'ts etc. for a complete novice??

Getting my head around the footwear requirements but literally haven't a clue about training and racing

Have a meeting with my club later in the week so should know more after that but would be interested to hear other people's experiences of starting off in XC.

cheers cm

Simply: enjoy.

Experiment. Find out what kind of XC animal you are. Some thrive on hills, some thrive in mud, some thrive sprinting off at the start and slogging around the course whereas others work better starting more conservatively and picking people off (usually the ill-judged sprinters )

Be aware of your physical build and strengths. Small and wiry might do well in certain conditions etc.

This is a really good opportunity to hone your mental skills. You can be broken - really broken - in a XC race and still muster up 'something' from 'somewhere'. Likewise, physically.

Don't let any negative experiences or slogfests put you off, come back wiser and slay the beast.

Train on grass as often as you can. Do reps and tempos on grass (specificity). Get used to the feel of tussocks, hills and trail.

Learn how to tie laces super-firmly. Don't do this when you put them on first as you might need to readjust after a couple of strides and nerves and freezing fingers won't co-operate...

Be part of a team. The camaraderie and buzz you get from being on a XC team is unparallelled.

tipping

Tempted to do a XC race just to see while marathon training. Bad idea right??

Coffee Fulled Runner

RayCun wrote: »

If you're in Dublin, BHAA have a winter series of cross country races

Thanks. I'm from the west, but I'll definitely try and make it up.

jamule

Star of the Sea CC on sun 25th is a nice start to the year & a good intro. Its generally not too muddy, good autumn grass.

Cartman78

Dubgal72 wrote: »

Simply: enjoy.

Experiment. Find out what kind of XC animal you are. Some thrive on hills, some thrive in mud, some thrive sprinting off at the start and slogging around the course whereas others work better starting more conservatively and picking people off (usually the ill-judged sprinters )

Be aware of your physical build and strengths. Small and wiry might do well in certain conditions etc.

This is a really good opportunity to hone your mental skills. You can be broken - really broken - in a XC race and still muster up 'something' from 'somewhere'. Likewise, physically.

Don't let any negative experiences or slogfests put you off, come back wiser and slay the beast.

Train on grass as often as you can. Do reps and tempos on grass (specificity). Get used to the feel of tussocks, hills and trail.

Learn how to tie laces super-firmly. Don't do this when you put them on first as you might need to readjust after a couple of strides and nerves and freezing fingers won't co-operate...

Be part of a team. The camaraderie and buzz you get from being on a XC team is unparallelled.

Thanks a lot for that......pretty much exactly what I was looking for when I asked my question above.

Have been road-running for about 15 years now and, while I still get huge enjoyment from it, I'm starting to feel the need for a refresh and a different approach.

I think the team aspect will be huge tbh....I only joined a club a couple of months ago, and already (after years of running solo) I am seeing the benefits eg. pushing harder in training, chatting to people at events, getting congrats on Facebook for races etc. To actually compete as part of a team is something I'm really looking forward to

Mulberry

Can I add one vitally important factor which I'd no idea about until AFTER my first XC race?

---Time is irrelevant - position is all that matters.

On my first race (that SOS open actually a few years ago) I was busy checking my pace and not even noticing whether I was being passed or not. Afterwards a club member congratulated me on my position, and I'd no idea what he was on about! Luckily I was running solo that time so it was no harm. So, when you're taking part as a team it's your position that is counted, not your time. For example, if you come in 20th position, your team mate comes in 8th and the other one in 34th, your total score is the sum of those, i.e. 62. The team with the lowest score wins! Simple, but nobody told me! So now you know Cartman! Never mind your speed, just pass people! Best done using surges of speed in my experience. Pass, relax, repeat

Other tips from me would be to stay upbeat, positive and enjoy it. If you're feeling negative that will affect your body and running form and only sink you farther into the mud - literally - and make the race much harder. You want to be springing lightly across the ground!

Finally if you're doing a few races hopefully you'll find someone that you're racing against again and again. I had three EPIC battles with a girl from another Meath club last year - the adrenalin from the competition between the two of us was unreal - it was absolutely brilliant craic. Hopefully you'll find a rival like that.

Enjoy!

Dubgal72

Cartman78 wrote: »

Thanks a lot for that......pretty much exactly what I was looking for when I asked my question above.

Have been road-running for about 15 years now and, while I still get huge enjoyment from it, I'm starting to feel the need for a refresh and a different approach.

I think the team aspect will be huge tbh....I only joined a club a couple of months ago, and already (after years of running solo) I am seeing the benefits eg. pushing harder in training, chatting to people at events, getting congrats on Facebook for races etc. To actually compete as part of a team is something I'm really looking forward to

You're welcome! It's worth getting your hands on Charlie Spedding's book From Last to First for his overview of the team aspect of cross country running. It was super cheap on Kindle recently, might still be.

Cartman78

Dubgal72 wrote: »

You're welcome! It's worth getting your hands on Charlie Spedding's book From Last to First for his overview of the team aspect of cross country running. It was super cheap on Kindle recently, might still be.

Haha....I have it on my Kindle ready to go for the past few weeks

Thanks again & good luck with your racing

Tombo2001

tipping wrote: »

Tempted to do a XC race just to see while marathon training. Bad idea right??

My tuppence.

I don't know why anyone would do marathons when they could do cross country instead.

Far more enjoyable, more opportunity for group training, steady schedule of races rather than all the eggs in once basket....

Firedance

Mulberry wrote: »

Can I add one vitally important factor which I'd no idea about until AFTER my first XC race?

---Time is irrelevant - position is all that matters.

On my first race (that SOS open actually a few years ago) I was busy checking my pace and not even noticing whether I was being passed or not. Afterwards a club member congratulated me on my position, and I'd no idea what he was on about! Luckily I was running solo that time so it was no harm. So, when you're taking part as a team it's your position that is counted, not your time. For example, if you come in 20th position, your team mate comes in 8th and the other one in 34th, your total score is the sum of those, i.e. 62. The team with the lowest score wins! Simple, but nobody told me! So now you know Cartman! Never mind your speed, just pass people! Best done using surges of speed in my experience. Pass, relax, repeat

Other tips from me would be to stay upbeat, positive and enjoy it. If you're feeling negative that will affect your body and running form and only sink you farther into the mud - literally - and make the race much harder. You want to be springing lightly across the ground!

Finally if you're doing a few races hopefully you'll find someone that you're racing against again and again. I had three EPIC battles with a girl from another Meath club last year - the adrenalin from the competition between the two of us was unreal - it was absolutely brilliant craic. Hopefully you'll find a rival like that.

Enjoy!

When are we doing this all over again?! although I'm away for the one next weekend

Mulberry

Firedance wrote: »

When are we doing this all over again?! although I'm away for the one next weekend

October 9th is the Meath Masters afaik - are you in?!??

Firedance

Mulberry wrote: »

October 9th is the Meath Masters afaik - are you in?!??

Well sure why not (although maybe as individual? as less than useless for a team at the moment!)

Tommy Max

Not a club member but interested in running some cross country races. Any in the phoenix park that non club members can take part in?

adrian522

Most XC races are for club runners. On October 16th there is a race in the PP that is open to anyone and the BHAA races are open to anyone:

https://bhaa.ie/events/

Wubble Wubble

There'll be a few from the club running the Dublin Novices. IMO it's a bit early for XC....surely the ground will be rock hard if this weather keeps up?

KielyUnusual

Wubble Wubble wrote: »

There'll be a few from the club running the Dublin Novices. IMO it's a bit early for XC....surely the ground will be rock hard if this weather keeps up?

The Dublin Novice was in St Anne's a few years back and it was twenty something degrees and the sun was splitting the rocks. A bit unusual alright but I'd take it over some of the freezing muck fests you get

Cartman78

***Noob Question Alert***

Do teams normally race tactically as teams (eg to ensure that everyone finishes as high as possible) or is it just a case of every man for himself and hope for the best??

Tombo2001

Cartman78 wrote: »

***Noob Question Alert***

Do teams normally race tactically as teams (eg to ensure that everyone finishes as high as possible) or is it just a case of every man for himself and hope for the best??

Its get from A to B as quick as you can, for all runners. That's really the only tactic. There may be a tactic where its beneficial for a team runner NOT to go as quick as they can, but I don't think it would arise too often.

KielyUnusual

Cartman78 wrote: »

***Noob Question Alert***

Do teams normally race tactically as teams (eg to ensure that everyone finishes as high as possible) or is it just a case of every man for himself and hope for the best??

Its every man for himself really but the best thing about being with a club is you know where you should be relative to your clubmates, so ye can help each other out if you are of a similar level or you can aim to kick their ass if they normally finish ahead of you in training .

There's not too much tactically you can do in a cross country race as a team but plenty of individual tactics you can try to get the better of your competitors. I'll not let you know mine though. Trade secrets :cool:

IvoryTower

if theres someone who might score for a rival club within reach ill aim to beat them, I wouldnt be close to scoring for my club so thats about the best help i can give other than tripping someone whos lapping me

Tombo2001

The thing about the team running is.....

if you are in a regular 5k or whatever.....and you are coming 36th....or 38th.....or 40th......it doesn't really matter.

if you are in a cross country......it might really matter.....you don't know until the end until the scores are counted up. so you can end up having some almighty battles just to get that one place ahead.

but heaven forbid that your are the runner that let someone run past you at the finish line, and it costs your team a medal.

Spirogyra

I'd have no chance of a medal as an individual but in xc there's always a chance of a team medal. I've been the 4th team mermber home a few times,which is nice. Gives the race more meaning!

Tommy Max

adrian522 wrote: »

Most XC races are for club runners. On October 16th there is a race in the PP that is open to anyone and the BHAA races are open to anyone:

https://bhaa.ie/events/

What race is it on the 16th? Is registration online?

Many thanks for info.

RayCun

Tommy Max wrote: »

What race is it on the 16th? Is registration online?

Athletics Ireland Open Cross Country
https://events.athleticsireland.ie/ps/event/AutumnOpen

HelenAnne

Wubble Wubble wrote: »

There'll be a few from the club running the Dublin Novices. IMO it's a bit early for XC....surely the ground will be rock hard if this weather keeps up?

It was pretty dry last year too - just wear short spikes!

HelenAnne

I'll be away for the novice, sob, sob - really sorry to miss it! But I will be back for Abbotstown on 16th. Anyone doing it? What's the course like?

RayCun

HelenAnne wrote: »

I'll be away for the novice, sob, sob - really sorry to miss it! But I will be back for Abbotstown on 16th. Anyone doing it? What's the course like?

apparently very flat

Cartman78

So the cross country season is kicking off for me on Sunday - total noob but looking forward to being part of a team for the first time since playing minor football about 20 years ago.

The course is a mix of grass and trail/path so probably won't need my spikes by all accounts :-(

El Caballo

Cartman78 wrote: »

So the cross country season is kicking off for me on Sunday - total noob but looking forward to being part of a team for the first time since playing minor football about 20 years ago.

The course is a mix of grass and trail/path so probably won't need my spikes by all accounts :-(

Same as and not to be giving tips to the competition;) but I'll be donning spikes tomorrow and have on that course in the past, flattened pins on the cinder but just felt much better going up and down that wall of a hill in the middle of the laps especially if it's any bit wet. That course always feels really dead to me for some reason and I don't know if it's just mental or physical but I run a lot quicker there with spikes. Only word of caution is that wearing spikes if you're not used to them on cinder could cause some blistering of calf pain from the stretching so I'd go with normal runners in that case. Going to go with 6mm spikes myself.

Cartman78

El Caballo wrote: »

Same as and not to be giving tips to the competition;) but I'll be donning spikes tomorrow and have on that course in the past, flattened pins on the cinder but just felt much better going up and down that wall of a hill in the middle of the laps especially if it's any bit wet. That course always feels really dead to me for some reason and I don't know if it's just mental or physical but I run a lot quicker there with spikes. Only word of caution is that wearing spikes if you're not used to them on cinder could cause some blistering of calf pain from the stretching so I'd go with normal runners in that case. Going to go with 6mm spikes myself.

I guess you're talking about Bilboa (Limerick)?

Really enjoyed yesterday I have to say....didn't go with the spikes in the end but not sure if it would have made much difference for me tbh.

Struggled a bit in the last couple of laps but happy to come away with my first ever medal (team) in almost 13 years of running

Did anybody run the Star of the Sea cross country yesterday?

El Caballo

Cartman78 wrote: »

I guess you're talking about Bilboa (Limerick)?

Really enjoyed yesterday I have to say....didn't go with the spikes in the end but not sure if it would have made much difference for me tbh.

Struggled a bit in the last couple of laps but happy to come away with my first ever medal (team) in almost 13 years of running

Well done man.

Talking about Bilboa alright. XC will bring on your endurance a lot so you'll get better and better at holding on towards the end of races as you get out and do it more, although nearly everyone slows down in XC anyway. I'd a good race yesterday, a lot better than expected and finished ahead of a few people I didn't think I would and made a small contribution to the team so happy with that. Enjoyed getting back out on the grass as well to race.

Will you be giving senior a go next week?

Cartman78

El Caballo wrote: »

Well done man.

Talking about Bilboa alright. XC will bring on your endurance a lot so you'll get better and better at holding on towards the end of races as you get out and do it more, although nearly everyone slows down in XC anyway. I'd a good race yesterday, a lot better than expected and finished ahead of a few people I didn't think I would and made a small contribution to the team so happy with that. Enjoyed getting back out on the grass as well to race.

Will you be giving senior a go next week?

I'd love to give it a go alright but if I manage to get a ticket for the All-Ireland and if Mayo somehow miraculously win it, then I'll probably be driving like a loony up to Castlebar on Sunday morning

I learned a lot alright yesterday - didn't really run a clever race but probably ran to my max potential due to my recent injury niggles.

midonogh

Hi I have signed up to run on Sunday.
Re being a club runner - I coach the kids at my local club and by virtue of that I have received an Athletics Ireland card. Is that sufficient to register and get a number on the day?
Our club is child oriented and to the best of my knowledge no other adults run as club members.

Another thought is that I am a member of IMRA and have a number for that


Thanks

Myles Splitz

RayCun wrote: »

apparently very flat

If it's the same one the used for the Inter-varsities a few years back its as flat as a pancake with only a few hairpin turns around tree ridges on what was a 2k loop.

Myles Splitz

midonogh wrote: »

Hi I have signed up to run on Sunday.
Re being a club runner - I coach the kids at my local club and by virtue of that I have received an Athletics Ireland card. Is that sufficient to register and get a number on the day?
Our club is child oriented and to the best of my knowledge no other adults run as club members.

Another thought is that I am a member of IMRA and have a number for that


Thanks

If you have an AAI membership number the club have signed you up as part of the club. This was probably done for insurance purposes given that you are working with club athletes. As long as you have entered prior to the closing date (not day of) should be fine to compete.

Best of luck.

RacoonQueen

KielyUnusual wrote: »

The Dublin Novice was in St Anne's a few years back and it was twenty something degrees and the sun was splitting the rocks. A bit unusual alright but I'd take it over some of the freezing muck fests you get

That was horrendous. Flat, dry ground and warm. One of my worst ever races I think. I love the muck, the rain and the hills in XC. I love crossing the finish line with my chest burning and coughing my lungs up for the rest of the day. I love having a lie down after I cross the line because I'm literally not capable of continuing to stand.
I missed XC last year and I'm fat and unfit this year but I cannot wait until Sunday. Hope the forecast brings lots of rain for the rest of the week. :D

Firedance

RacoonQueen wrote: »

That was horrendous. Flat, dry ground and warm. One of my worst ever races I think. I love the muck, the rain and the hills in XC. I love crossing the finish line with my chest burning and coughing my lungs up for the rest of the day. I love having a lie down after I cross the line because I'm literally not capable of continuing to stand.
I missed XC last year and I'm fat and unfit this year but I cannot wait until Sunday. Hope the forecast brings lots of rain for the rest of the week. :D

+1 to this but you skipped the bit where its so cold you can't actually feel your legs, which is a blessing in disguise!!!!

pconn062

Anybody know anything about the Autumn Open XC on the 16th, what distance are the men's race? What is the course like in Abbotstown? Just seen there it's €15 to enter which I have to say I thought was pretty steep for an XC race.

RayCun

pconn062 wrote: »

Anybody know anything about the Autumn Open XC on the 16th, what distance are the men's race? What is the course like in Abbotstown? Just seen there it's €15 to enter which I have to say I thought was pretty steep for an XC race.

Think the course is flat.

The races look complicated, because there are two races but two distances in each race

2.00 pm start
U20 and O65 Women - 4000m
Women from Senior to O60 - 6000m
Men O65 - 6000m

2.35 pm start
Junior Men - 6000m
Men from Senior to O60 - 8000m

pconn062

RayCun wrote: »

Think the course is flat.

The races look complicated, because there are two races but two distances in each race

2.00 pm start
U20 and O65 Women - 4000m
Women from Senior to O60 - 6000m
Men O65 - 6000m

2.35 pm start
Junior Men - 6000m
Men from Senior to O60 - 8000m

Thanks Ray. Probably a 2k lap with the junior men dropping after 3 laps and then 4 for seniors.

KielyUnusual

RacoonQueen wrote: »

That was horrendous. Flat, dry ground and warm. One of my worst ever races I think. I love the muck, the rain and the hills in XC. I love crossing the finish line with my chest burning and coughing my lungs up for the rest of the day. I love having a lie down after I cross the line because I'm literally not capable of continuing to stand.
I missed XC last year and I'm fat and unfit this year but I cannot wait until Sunday. Hope the forecast brings lots of rain for the rest of the week. :D

Yea, I said that but its the only race I ever dropped out of so obviously something was amiss. I would be of the opinion that the Dublin Novice is a bit too early in the year. They could do with starting a little later and not trying to get almost everything squeezed in by December. Sure that's only the start of winter in Ireland.