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5 members of family found dead in Cavan - NO SPECULATION
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[Deleted User] wrote: »I believe the sisters comment was "What we now know" - so I would assume that they found something out after the tragedy.
It's clear that they are unhappy with the burial arrangements now, at any rate.
All this because I said mental illness probably wasn't a factor?
Wow! Overreact, much?
But you can't explain how you came to the conclusion that mental illness probably wasn't a factor, can you?
I'd like you to answer this question.0 -
But you can't explain how you came to the conclusion that mental illness probably wasn't a factor, can you?
I'd like you to answer this question.
Maybe because nearly three months later, the immediate family of his victims are now talking about domestic abuse and not about mental health?
The mental health aspect was considered initially, but now appears to have been completely discounted by those closest to the killings.
In the absence of any identifiable reason to doubt their view of events, that's a good enough reason for me.0 -
I must say the reaction to Alan Hawe vs the reaction to the Irish woman who killed her son in London on Facebook comments and the like was astounding. The London woman it was all poor this poor that she must have been in an awful dark place the stress of working single mother London cost of living blah blah. With Hawe there were people wishing they could somehow bring him back to life so he could be tortured to death the second time around. It always baffles me the gender difference reaction when this type of thing occurs.0
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I think it's cruel of you and a terrible injustice to suggest that the mother and sister of the dead woman, a grandmother and aunt to 3 dead children, were "keeping up appearances " when making funeral arrangements.
You have no clue who these people are or the trauma they endured but feel free to speculate wildly about why they made the decisions they did.
Boards gives me a headache at times.
I wasn't referring to her family, I was referring to the priest in this instance and society in general.0 -
But you can't explain how you came to the conclusion that mental illness probably wasn't a factor, can you?
I'd like you to answer this question.
Simply because, while it appears to have been considered initially by Clodaghs family, it now appears to have been entirely discounted.
Comments like "silent abuse", "hidden abuse", together with "He was about to be knocked off his pedestal" suggest that the family don't believe that mental illness was a factor.
Add the fact that neighbours who were interviewed, (and family friends also, if I remember correctly?) noticed nothing unusual about his behaviour in the days or weeks leading up to the attack. Nor does there appear to be any history of mental illness.
Hence, it is reasonable to state that it probably wasn't mental illness.
Now, if the inquest finds that it was mental illness ( I do remember work related stress being mentioned!) - then, that's fair enough.
Strangely enough, I think someone believing in a "probable" scenario is more open-minded than someone who is quite defensive about the possibility that mental illness may not have been a factor.....
Edit:
Some statistics to back up my reasoning:
From 2014:
http://www.apa.org/news/press/releases/2014/04/mental-illness-crime.aspxWASHINGTON — In a study of crimes committed by people with serious mental disorders, only 7.5 percent were directly related to symptoms of mental illness, according to new research published by the American Psychological Association.
From 1988
This was a study of1000 Homicides by mentally ill
Several different studies and calculation methods (presented below) suggest that 1,000 homicides or more a year are committed by people with untreated severe mental illness..A 2011 study suggests that state homicide rates are correlated to the state's civil commitment laws, i.e, states that make it easier to treat people with mental illness have lower homicide rates.
From 1988 Department of Justice study
(J. M. Dawson and P. A. Langan, Murder in Families, U.S. Department of Justice, 1994)
T 2,655 homicides in 1988 drawn from a "representative sample" of 33 of the largest counties in the United States. The information was obtained from the files of prosecutors who examined the cases. They reported that 4.3 percent of the assailants had a "history of mental illness."
In 1988 there were reported to be 20,680 cases of "murder and non-negligent manslaughter" in the United States (Sourcebook of Criminal Justice Statistics online). If the Dawson and Langan study is correct, there would have been 889 homicides (20,680 x 4.3%) caused by mentally ill individuals in the United States in 1988. Since 1988, the murder rate has decreased in the United States (16,910 in 1998). Most of the decrease is thought to be caused by (a) increased incarceration rates of career criminals; (b) fewer drug-related homicides, because of increased organization of the cocaine distribution; and (c) demographic factors, especially an aging population. None of these would be likely to significantly affect the number of homicides committed by individuals with mental illnesses. On the other hand, since 1988, public psychiatric services for individuals with mental illnesses have continued to deteriorate, and there are now many more such individuals who have been released from state psychiatric hospitals and who are not being treated.
Assuming that there had been no change between 1988 and 1998 in the percentage of homicides committed by individuals with "a history of mental illness," then in 1998 4.3 percent of 16,910 homicides, or 727 homicides, would have been committed by such individuals.
So, somewhere between 4.3% - 7.5% of murders are committed by those with mental illness, if these studies remain accurate.
Meaning that, on the balance of probability, mental illness is less likely to have been the cause than other motives.
None of which proves definitively that mental illness wasn't a factor. Just that, on the evidence available so far - it probably wasn't.0 -
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Yes it's a huge conspiracy organised by the WBI (wife beaters Ireland) to prevent discussion about domestic violence.
Nothing whatsoever to do with the utter tastelessness and crassness of speculating wildly about the circumstances of a terrible tragedy which has rent asunder an entire community.
Go right ahead and pick over the bones of other people's heartache for your own entertainment.
If it ever happens to you I'm sure you won't mind a whole online community discussing your business, about which they know precisely nothing.
i post to this thread less than you, i think its worth my pointing out. so much for amusing myself on the topic.
i dont claim to know what your agenda is tbh. but if it were really nothing more than disapproval about discussion of a multiple murder on a message board then one would have thought that you were going a very funny way about it.
noting that disapproval once would appear to cover any public disavowal you felt you had to make.
not posting to nor reading the thread would appear more logical again.
constantly disrupting the thread to tell others what you think they should or should not post is... i think i used the word bizarre and yeah thatll do as a descriptor.
ill furthermore note that ive suffered an immediate family tragedy that made the news. i never once assumed that it was for me to go trawling for discussion of it, let alone to attempt to control discussion of it. so that being said, and my cards on the table, what makes you the appointed moral guardian of discussion on this topic?
go haunt another tragedy.0 -
C. Montgomery Gurns wrote: »I must say the reaction to Alan Hawe vs the reaction to the Irish woman who killed her son in London on Facebook comments and the like was astounding. The London woman it was all poor this poor that she must have been in an awful dark place the stress of working single mother London cost of living blah blah. With Hawe there were people wishing they could somehow bring him back to life so he could be tortured to death the second time around. It always baffles me the gender difference reaction when this type of thing occurs.
You're too late, this was already hashed out ad nauseum and concluded that it was complete bollocks to be comparing the two cases as if you have any idea about it. For a start, there -is- (slight) evidence of mental issues in that case and there has been none so far in the Hawe case. But give it time, and recall that the Hawe case was very sympathetic to Alan Hawe for a long time before more info came out. The same might happen in the London case. Or it might not. To make the accusation that she's being treated differently because she's a woman rather than because there are few obvious connectors between the cases (other than the terrible outcome) is frankly, just you having an agenda. Otherwise why would you assume she is guilty of a predetermined and sane act -just because- she is female? That didn't happen with Hawe, bar some people who so far seem to be correct. Doesn't make it right to assume with no evidence though.
That you have three posts and just happen to fall into this thread with a "controversial" opinion that mostly consists of bollocks and presupposition that just happens to be the same one as someone else earlier who was thoroughly debunked is...
Yeah, you're not subtle.0 -
C. Montgomery Gurns wrote: »I must say the reaction to Alan Hawe vs the reaction to the Irish woman who killed her son in London on Facebook comments and the like was astounding. The London woman it was all poor this poor that she must have been in an awful dark place the stress of working single mother London cost of living blah blah. With Hawe there were people wishing they could somehow bring him back to life so he could be tortured to death the second time around. It always baffles me the gender difference reaction when this type of thing occurs.
It shouldn't surprise you, it's so depressing, I should have ignored all this like I usually do.
The mods note in the thread title is particularly galling0 -
Nobody was ever sympathetic to Hawe, aside from maybe people in his local community who liked him on a personal level. Whether you like it or not there is a different rule that men and women are held under. A few months ago I read something about looking out for the signs that a man is controlling a woman in their relationship. Signs included telling them what they should and shouldn't wear, making deliberate attempts to isolate them from their friends, telling them when and where they can and can't go out socialising, restricting their access to money held in joint accs (fair enough if the partner is a pisshead or a gambler mind) demanding that they end old hobbies and interests and hang out only with people who share the dominant partner's hobbies and interests.
I found the whole read quite funny. I've never known, at least in my friend group, any lad who insisted on any of the above, yet I can think of at least three lads I know in the exact same situation with their missus as the above, pretending to enjoy such lofty pursuits as vegatarianism, agreeing to having their children named ludicrous names, one eejit I was formerly friends with is so terrified of the missus he adopted her surname hyphenated on to his own when they married.0 -
C. Montgomery Gurns wrote: »Nobody was ever sympathetic to Hawe, aside from maybe people in his local community who liked him on a personal level. Whether you like it or not there is a different rule that men and women are held under.
Oh good heavens, read the thread. This very thread in which you are commenting disproves you. This is probably the -worst- case to try and spin a misandrist tale out of. And it's very disrespectful to everyone involved in both cases.
What about the London case, about which very little is known, keeps attracting people to make these comments? Why -that- case specifically? Why not killer nurses or something, which have been predominantly female, or munchausens-by-proxy, again primarily female.
But comparing it to the Hawe case undermines your argument before you even begin because the evidence of arguing for a lenient "meaning" to it all is blatantly obvious. The evidence of the newspaper reports (generally sympathetic) is blatantly obvious.
In retrospect even YOUR OWN COMMENT disproves you " aside from maybe people in his local community who liked him on a personal level". The people that would have had the only real chance of knowing if there was something going on reported what they knew of him, which was that he seemed to be a decent man. That is, inevitably, the line the newspapers picked up because it was the line out there.0 -
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Let them all rest in peace. Nobody on this thread knows the full truth about this very sad case and I doubt that, even after the inquest, we ever will.0
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You have zero proof or evidence of any of your allegations.
I have expressed no opinion on the character of Alan Hawe.
Do you know why?
Because, like you, I know absolutely nothing about him, or what happened, or why.
Why don't you calm yourself down and stop your pointless rampage until we hear from experts?
What about experts on family annihilation?
In this comprehensive study of over 400 cases: anytime a man wipes out his family in 70% of cases there was prior domestic violence. Other reasons might be severe mental illness (5%) or substance abuse (5%).
Source here. Worth reading the full article
https://granta.com/he-had-his-reasons/.
A British study in 2013 showed similar motives with an almost uniform commonality of a 'sense of ownership of family', 'male entitlement', 'killer was always firmly the family head'.
In cases of domestic violence against women the 'experts' are Womensaid.
A week after the Hawe massacre they reported that in 2015 almost a thousand women had phoned their helpline reporting that their partners had threatened to kill them (and sometimes children). They also reported that according to their statistics well over 200 women (and many more children) had been killed violently by their partners in the last 20 years (including Clodagh and family) They reported that the week after the massacre had seen a huge surge in calls to their helpline. Clearly many thousands of women in Ireland suffering domestic violence didn't want to end up as Clodagh and her boys did.
The Gardai reportedly found no evidence of previous mental issues with the killer and found no reported unusual behaviour up until the murders.
The fact that the killer reportedly wrote an explanation note means that it cant have been a 'snap'. He knew what he did. He tried to explain it in his note.
What about symtoms for domestic violence? Hawe was head of a religious family and the parish priest proudly stated he was a traditional father "steeped in the noble traditions of family'.
A relative described Clodagh as a very talkative outgoing character until she married Hawe. After which she was subdued quiet and isolated. She had no social media accounts, and it was reported that the family was tight "yous aw one you saw them all". This means that Clodagh was rarely out of Alans sight. It was also reported the house as quiet, no one visited much, no one knew what went on inside.
A relative of Clodagh Hawe reported that he had been manipulative and controlling over many years and was skilled at hiding this in his public persona. Street angel, house devil.
After coming under severe pressure to bury the family together by the parish priest, Clodaghs Mum and sister publicly declare their regret at this and the priest is forced to call Hawe 'evil' at the months mind.
Last month the Mum and daughter come out and state Hawe was guilty of domestic abuse over his family. They know.
They start a fundraising campaign with womensaid to help others get out of Clodaghs position before its too late.
The inquest will return unlawful deaths. There isn't a court case when the perpetrator commits suicide.
It seems almost certain that were Hawe to have survived he would be convicted of multiple murders.
The family want us to remember this as a case of domestic violence. The evidence and circumstances agrees with them.
Can supply a shred of substantiation that backs your mental illness theory that makes it more likely than substance abuse, hypnotism, or devil possession? Otherwise you are clearly pushing the narrative that Alan Hawe might have diminished responsibily for no apparent reason and most likely a hidden one.
Please show integrity with your answer.0 -
What about experts on family annihilation?
In this comprehensive study of over 400 cases: anytime a man wipes out his family in 70% of cases there was prior domestic violence. Other reasons might be severe mental illness (5%) or substance abuse (5%).
Source here. Worth reading the full article
https://granta.com/he-had-his-reasons/.
A British study in 2013 showed similar motives with an almost uniform commonality of a 'sense of ownership of family', 'male entitlement', 'killer was always firmly the family head'.
In cases of domestic violence against women the 'experts' are Womensaid.
A week after the Hawe massacre they reported that in 2015 almost a thousand women had phoned their helpline reporting that their partners had threatened to kill them (and sometimes children). They also reported that according to their statistics well over 200 women (and many more children) had been killed violently by their partners in the last 20 years (including Clodagh and family) They reported that the week after the massacre had seen a huge surge in calls to their helpline. Clearly many thousands of women in Ireland suffering domestic violence didn't want to end up as Clodagh and her boys did.
The Gardai reportedly found no evidence of previous mental issues with the killer and found no reported unusual behaviour up until the murders.
The fact that the killer reportedly wrote an explanation note means that it cant have been a 'snap'. He knew what he did. He tried to explain it in his note.
What about symtoms for domestic violence? Hawe was head of a religious family and the parish priest proudly stated he was a traditional father "steeped in the noble traditions of family'.
A relative described Clodagh as a very talkative outgoing character until she married Hawe. After which she was subdued quiet and isolated. She had no social media accounts, and it was reported that the family was tight "yous aw one you saw them all". This means that Clodagh was rarely out of Alans sight. It was also reported the house as quiet, no one visited much, no one knew what went on inside.
A relative of Clodagh Hawe reported that he had been manipulative and controlling over many years and was skilled at hiding this in his public persona. Street angel, house devil.
After coming under severe pressure to bury the family together by the parish priest, Clodaghs Mum and sister publicly declare their regret at this and the priest is forced to call Hawe 'evil' at the months mind.
Last month the Mum and daughter come out and state Hawe was guilty of domestic abuse over his family. They know.
They start a fundraising campaign with womensaid to help others get out of Clodaghs position before its too late.
The inquest will return unlawful deaths. There isn't a court case when the perpetrator commits suicide.
It seems almost certain that were Hawe to have survived he would be convicted of multiple murders.
The family want us to remember this as a case of domestic violence. The evidence and circumstances agrees with them.
Can supply a shred of substantiation that backs your mental illness theory that makes it more likely than substance abuse, hypnotism, or devil possession? Otherwise you are clearly pushing the narrative that Alan Hawe might have diminished responsibily for no apparent reason and most likely a hidden one.
Please show integrity with your answer.
Didn't realize they had actually stated that. Can you link?0 -
What about experts on family annihilation?
In this comprehensive study of over 400 cases: anytime a man wipes out his family in 70% of cases there was prior domestic violence. Other reasons might be severe mental illness (5%) or substance abuse (5%).
Source here. Worth reading the full article
https://granta.com/he-had-his-reasons/.
A British study in 2013 showed similar motives with an almost uniform commonality of a 'sense of ownership of family', 'male entitlement', 'killer was always firmly the family head'.
In cases of domestic violence against women the 'experts' are Womensaid.
A week after the Hawe massacre they reported that in 2015 almost a thousand women had phoned their helpline reporting that their partners had threatened to kill them (and sometimes children). They also reported that according to their statistics well over 200 women (and many more children) had been killed violently by their partners in the last 20 years (including Clodagh and family) They reported that the week after the massacre had seen a huge surge in calls to their helpline. Clearly many thousands of women in Ireland suffering domestic violence didn't want to end up as Clodagh and her boys did.
The Gardai reportedly found no evidence of previous mental issues with the killer and found no reported unusual behaviour up until the murders.
The fact that the killer reportedly wrote an explanation note means that it cant have been a 'snap'. He knew what he did. He tried to explain it in his note.
What about symtoms for domestic violence? Hawe was head of a religious family and the parish priest proudly stated he was a traditional father "steeped in the noble traditions of family'.
A relative described Clodagh as a very talkative outgoing character until she married Hawe. After which she was subdued quiet and isolated. She had no social media accounts, and it was reported that the family was tight "yous aw one you saw them all". This means that Clodagh was rarely out of Alans sight. It was also reported the house as quiet, no one visited much, no one knew what went on inside.
A relative of Clodagh Hawe reported that he had been manipulative and controlling over many years and was skilled at hiding this in his public persona. Street angel, house devil.
After coming under severe pressure to bury the family together by the parish priest, Clodaghs Mum and sister publicly declare their regret at this and the priest is forced to call Hawe 'evil' at the months mind.
Last month the Mum and daughter come out and state Hawe was guilty of domestic abuse over his family. They know.
They start a fundraising campaign with womensaid to help others get out of Clodaghs position before its too late.
The inquest will return unlawful deaths. There isn't a court case when the perpetrator commits suicide.
It seems almost certain that were Hawe to have survived he would be convicted of multiple murders.
The family want us to remember this as a case of domestic violence. The evidence and circumstances agrees with them.
Can supply a shred of substantiation that backs your mental illness theory that makes it more likely than substance abuse, hypnotism, or devil possession? Otherwise you are clearly pushing the narrative that Alan Hawe might have diminished responsibily for no apparent reason and most likely a hidden one.
Please show integrity with your answer.
I'm jealous that you've travelled in time, been to the future, attended the inquest and are back with the results. Did you happen to see the Lotto numbers for that week while you were there?
You had to use the word "reportedly " several times in your post.
Why? Because you simply do not know, you are merely speculating, a practice forbidden by the mods in the title of this thread.
In your answer to this post I now demand that YOU show "integrity " and point out specifically, in any post I made, where I alleged that Alan Hawe was even "reportedly" suffering from mental illness?0 -
Johnnyjump wrote: »Let them all rest in peace. Nobody on this thread knows the full truth about this very sad case and I doubt that, even after the inquest, we ever will.
I hope they do rest in peace.
For the surviving family members it will be quite different though. Wondering about little things that happened, little hints dropped but not picked up on immediately, little warning signs that things were not well with the marriage, little bouts of quietness and fear especially when the big bad wolf was around etc etc.0 -
robbiezero wrote: »Didn't realize they had actually stated that. Can you link?I'm jealous that you've travelled in time, been to the future, attended the inquest and are back with the results. Did you happen to see the Lotto numbers for that week while you were there?
You had to use the word "reportedly " several times in your post.
Why? Because you simply do not know, you are merely speculating, a practice forbidden by the mods in the title of this thread.
In your answer to this post I now demand that YOU show "integrity " and point out specifically, in any post I made, where I alleged that Alan Hawe was even "reportedly" suffering from mental illness?
Linked already several times:
http://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/clodagh-boys-never-stood-chance-9367017“In time we will work to highlight domestic violence, especially the silent type where there are no obvious warning signs, just like Clodagh’s situation.I'm jealous that you've travelled in time, been to the future, attended the inquest and are back with the results. Did you happen to see the Lotto numbers for that week while you were there?
You had to use the word "reportedly " several times in your post.
Why? Because you simply do not know, you are merely speculating, a practice forbidden by the mods in the title of this thread.
In your answer to this post I now demand that YOU show "integrity " and point out specifically, in any post I made, where I alleged that Alan Hawe was even "reportedly" suffering from mental illness?
The reports I quoted were either to the media from official Garda sources or from actual family members. Not speculation.
The view of Hawe as extremely patriarcal comes from the priests own words and his explanation of the momento on his funeral coffin.
The view of Clodagh and other family members comes from her relation and from quotes from neighbours. If you believe that this mass murder should not be commented on in any media before the inquest that id your view. The gardai, judiciary, politicians, public certainly don't share it.
You have repeatedly raised the idea of mental illness as a possible explanation. Again have you any substantiation for this point of view. Any statement from the Gardai to corrobarate it for example?
Didn't think so. Earlier in this thread you made the false claim that the priest did not have any say in the burial arrangements.
Will you show integrity now and back up your assertions with atleast some reasoning on a thread about a brutal mass murder?0 -
tayto lover wrote: »I hope they do rest in peace.
For the surviving family members it will be quite different though. Wondering about little things that happened, little hints dropped but not picked up on immediately, little warning signs that things were not well with the marriage, little bouts of quietness and fear especially when the big bad wolf was around etc etc.
Everyone was fooled by this guy and he had the parish priest batting for him at every turn. Our culture puts 'pillar of society' beyond scrutiny. There was tragedy in that family before so any bouts of quietness could have been rationalised on that.
Good on them for getting out and raising awareness to help other people now. It's all they can do and a very positive thing to do.0 -
Linked already several times:
http://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/clodagh-boys-never-stood-chance-9367017
The reports I quoted were either to the media from official Garda sources or from actual family members. Not speculation.
The view of Hawe as extremely patriarcal comes from the priests own words and his explanation of the momento on his funeral coffin.
The view of Clodagh and other family members comes from her relation and from quotes from neighbours. If you believe that this mass murder should not be commented on in any media before the inquest that id your view. The gardai, judiciary, politicians, public certainly don't share it.
You have repeatedly raised the idea of mental illness as a possible explanation. Again have you any substantiation for this point of view. Any statement from the Gardai to corrobarate it for example?
Didn't think so. Earlier in this thread you made the false claim that the priest did not have any say in the burial arrangements.
Will you show integrity now and back up your assertions with atleast some reasoning on a thread about a brutal mass murder?
So your back up, your source, your evidence is an article in the Daily Mirror ?
Do you know how that makes you look?
And your still using the word integrity?
I must insist now once again that you quote specifically every time I posted that Alan Hawe was suffering from mental illness.
You have now twice alleged that I did, which would be speculation, which a mod has forbidden.
So I need you to show the posts where I speculated that he was mentally ill please, thank you.0 -
So your back up, your source, your evidence is an article in the Daily Mirror ?
Do you know how that makes you look?
My evidence for stating that the family claimed him guilty of domestic violence is a paper (that the family have consistently used since the massacre) which QUOTES them as saying he was guilty of domestic violence.
If you believe that this paper has fabricated this then please supply us substantiation for this sensational claim. Have the family refuted it elsewhere for example?So I need you to show the posts where I speculated that he was mentally ill please, thank you.
Your words below: You are offering mental illness as a possibility with no substantiation=speculationI think this is part of the problem that Tayto lover and others have with these tragedies.
I know it's unbelievable, but lots of people just don't accept that mental illness is a "thing".
Even after all this time, even after all the evidence, they just don't believe it.
No such thing as depression ( pull yourself together, what have you got to be depressed about, there's others worse off than you...)
No such thing as stress, anxiety bi polar or even schizophrenia.
It's all made up pretentious rubbish.
People looking for "notice ".
People are never "mad" they're just "bad".
It makes me despair.0 -
My evidence for stating that the family claimed him guilty of domestic violence is a paper (that the family have consistently used since the massacre) which QUOTES them as saying he was guilty of domestic violence.
If you believe that this paper has fabricated this then please supply us substantiation for this sensational claim. Have the family refuted it elsewhere for example?
Your words below: You are offering mental illness as a possibility with no substantiation=speculation
Demfad nowhere here have I stated that Alan Hawe was suffering from mental illness.
Enough already.
I've reported your post.
You could have apologised and admitted that your wrong but your not big enough.0 -
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Mary Keegan case was similar to the Hawe case, where a mother stabbed her children to death and then took her own life after which the bodies lay undiscovered for at least a day, while her husband was away on business. Not condoning any of the behaviour of the perpetrators in either case, but I don't recall the level of vitriol being aimed at Alan Hawe, ever being laid at Mary Keegan.
I won't speculate as to the why's or make assumptions of abuse/domestic violence/mental illness as that's for garda investigations and inquests. I'm simply commenting on the viciousness of media/commentariat making judgments where they don't really have a place to. Only the families and the relevant authorities have that right.0 -
Mary Keegan case was similar to the Hawe case, where a mother stabbed her children to death and then took her own life after which the bodies lay undiscovered for at least a day, while her husband was away on business. Not condoning any of the behaviour of the perpetrators in either case, but I don't recall the level of vitriol being aimed at Alan Hawe, ever being laid at Mary Keegan.
If you have been following this case you would have realised that the media eulogised the killer along with the clergy, local organisations, teachers Unions etc. etc. The story was that this was a decent man who must have snapped.I won't speculate as to the why's or make assumptions of abuse/domestic violence/mental illness as that's for garda investigations and inquests. I'm simply commenting on the viciousness of media/commentariat making judgments where they don't really have a place to. Only the families and the relevant authorities have that right.
No assumptions:
The GARDAI have said that Alan Hawe butchered his family, they gave the order of killing, and they revealed that he had left a note 'explaining' his actions. They said that there was absolutely no evidence or history of mental illness nor did he seem to be acting unusually up until the massacre.
The FAMILY First via a relative and later via Clodagh Hawe's Mother and daughter came out and revealed that Alan Hawe had been guilty of domestic violence.0 -
If you have been following this case you would have realised that the media eulogised the killer along with the clergy, local organisations, teachers Unions etc. etc. The story was that this was a decent man who must have snapped.
No assumptions:
The GARDAI have said that Alan Hawe butchered his family, they gave the order of killing, and they revealed that he had left a note 'explaining' his actions. They said that there was absolutely no evidence or history of mental illness nor did he seem to be acting unusually up until the massacre.
The FAMILY First via a relative and later via Clodagh Hawe's Mother and daughter came out and revealed that Alan Hawe had been guilty of domestic violence.
So there's no need for an inquest then is there demfad?
You have decided that we all know all we need to know about this tragedy, the families and wider community have no further questions, there's to be no further discussion, the Daily Mirror reported on some info that their journalists picked up after "doorstepping" some villagers.
You've obviously seen what Hawe wrote in the notes, your just not revealing what it is because.....blah blah.
Tell me, why do you think that we even bother having inquests when all the investigating can be done by the Daily Mirror ?
Also, did you ever find any post of mine which stated that Alan Hawe suffered from mental illness? Thought not.0 -
So there's no need for an inquest then is there demfad?
You have decided that we all know all we need to know about this tragedy, the families and wider community have no further questions, there's to be no further discussion, the Daily Mirror reported on some info that their journalists picked up after "doorstepping" some villagers.
You've obviously seen what Hawe wrote in the notes, your just not revealing what it is because.....blah blah.
Tell me, why do you think that we even bother having inquests when all the investigating can be done by the Daily Mirror ?
Also, did you ever find any post of mine which stated that Alan Hawe suffered from mental illness? Thought not.
I'm claiming there should be no inquest now am I? Ok, I wont be replying to strawman posts similar to the above, as anyone can see that for what it is.
That said whatever your agenda, if you try and post serious misinformation again on this thread i will challenge it.
PS Ive already posted where you have speculated about mental illness in regards to this case.0 -
Join Date:Posts: 24783
demfad and infogiver
Can you please be more civil in the discussion please? That would make it nicer for, you know, everyone else.0 -
Mod:
Due to the fact that everything relating to this case that can be discussed has already been discussed, along with the sheer number of reported posts from this thread, we have decided to close the thread for now. It hasn't been about the case in Cavan for a long time and has become a conduit for discussing similar cases, domestic abuse in general and tit-for-tat bickering.
However, if anything new relating to this case comes up (court verdict, etc), please PM a mod and we will consider reopening it.0
![[Deleted User]](/applications/dashboard/design/images/defaulticon.png)
This discussion has been closed.
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