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5 members of family found dead in Cavan - NO SPECULATION

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    #272
    Jesus.
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,794 ✭✭✭Jesus.


    Wigglepuppy wrote: »
    I don't think it was deliberate. I saw that article and find it loathsome that this horrific atrocity is used as a platform to talk about the patriarchy.

    Agreed. Feminism has to get its spake in. Not surprising really


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    #273
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    rjpf1980 wrote: »
    Forgiveness? Maybe you should acquaint yourself with Christianity and rural Ireland? Irish country folk are forgiving loving and decent people. They know Alan Hawe was not in his right mind and they see him as a victim too and pray for his soul and the souls of his poor wife and kids who died because his act of madness.

    You don't know the first thing about how anyone in either family feels about this.


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    #274
    strandroad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,676 ✭✭✭strandroad


    rjpf1980 wrote: »
    Hawe like other murder suicides committed his final desperate act out of love. In his madness he felt it was merciful to take their lives too. That's the case in all these tragedies.

    Naive or trolling?


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    #275
    rjpf1980
    Registered Users Posts: 387 ✭✭rjpf1980


    Yellow pack crisps wrote: »
    No difference whats so ever. Both child killers.

    Yes there is a difference and you know it.


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    #276
    Jesus.
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,794 ✭✭✭Jesus.


    Spanish Eyes wrote: »
    I wonder about the evidence of MH issues in many of these cases.That might sound insensitive, but there possibly could be a history of control, emotional, financial or physical abuse, and the minute the abused partner says "it's over", all hell breaks loose, and the absolute control happens.We need to be aware of the potential for controllers to get out of control. Happens.

    Certainly possible. Or the woman wasn't liked & that's why she wasn't mentioned by the school. Perhaps folk thought what was a nice guy like him doing with a rottweiler like her? Maybe they think he cracked under her pressure. We just don't know


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    #277
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    Jesus. wrote: »
    Agreed. Feminism has to get its spake in. Not surprising really

    It's got nothing to do with feminism. Clodagh was a person in her own right outside of her marriage. The fact that she died at the hands of her husband makes it even more inappropriate to refer to her as his wife. All four victims deserve to be recognised as the individuals they were.


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    #278
    Esel
    Registered Users Posts: 22,140 ✭✭✭✭Esel


    Jesus. wrote: »
    Certainly possible. Or the woman wasn't liked & that's why she wasn't mentioned by the school. Perhaps folk thought what was a nice guy like him doing with a rottweiler like her? Maybe they think he cracked under her pressure. We just don't know

    Ah FFS.

    Not your ornery onager



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    #279
    Hrududu
    Registered Users Posts: 1,711 ✭✭✭Hrududu


    rjpf1980 wrote: »
    Hawe like other murder suicides committed his final desperate act out of love. In his madness he felt it was merciful to take their lives too. That's the case in all these tragedies.

    I'm sorry but you have no proof that this is true


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    #280
    rjpf1980
    Registered Users Posts: 387 ✭✭rjpf1980


    eviltwin wrote: »
    You don't know the first thing about how anyone in either family feels about this.

    By burying them together they leave the final judgement up to God. That's consistent with the rural Ireland I know.


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    #281
    Jesus.
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,794 ✭✭✭Jesus.


    Esel wrote: »
    Ah FFS.

    Not possible?


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    #282
    Wigglepuppy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 397 ✭✭Wigglepuppy


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    I think the complete opposite. Its completely refreshing to hear what is said in that article compared to the mainstream media discourse.
    If it's true rather than conspiracy theory scraping the bottom of the barrel. You've people like the writer of that piece, and then you've the crowd saying men are depicted as monsters in cases like this whereas women who kill their families are depicted as fragile and possibly having post natal depression. Meanwhile those with sense can see there isn't a deliberate strategy to demonise or neglect either gender.
    rjpf1980 wrote: »
    a loving Dad who has lost his mind and can't go on and takes his own life and the lives of his family.
    You don't know this for certain at all.


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    #283
    rjpf1980
    Registered Users Posts: 387 ✭✭rjpf1980


    Hrududu wrote: »
    I'm sorry but you have no proof that this is true

    Read the psychiatric literature on this phenomenon.


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    #284
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 26,052 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Jesus. wrote: »
    Yes that would be more appropriate. Using her first name when one never knew her sounds weird tbh.

    And referring to her as his wife is inappropriate, since he was her murderer and she was his victim. She shouldn't be solely known by her relationship to her killer.

    She had a name, a name that's barely been mentioned in the media while we've all been hearing what a stand-up guy the child killer who also murdered her was. We all know his name, she deserves to be known by hers.


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    #285
    Yellow pack crisps
    Registered Users Posts: 564 ✭✭✭Yellow pack crisps


    rjpf1980 wrote: »
    Yes there is a difference and you know it.

    I honestly don't. Just because he was their father should not absolve him of a heinous act. He killed his wife and three children. I am not trying to pick a fight with you. I am stating that he is a murderer first and a suicide victim second. His wife and kids did not choose death. He chose for them and that is murder.


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    #286
    Jesus.
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,794 ✭✭✭Jesus.


    Candie wrote: »
    And referring to her as his wife is inappropriate, since he was her murderer and she was his victim. She shouldn't be solely known by her relationship to her killer.She had a name, a name that's barely been mentioned in the media while we've all been hearing what a stand-up guy the child killer who also murdered her was. We all know his name, she deserves to be known by hers.

    Mrs Howe then. First name terms should be reserved for people you know. Nobody here ever heard of the girl 3 days ago.


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    #287
    rjpf1980
    Registered Users Posts: 387 ✭✭rjpf1980


    Hrududu wrote: »
    I'm sorry but you have no proof that this is true

    When the letter he wrote is made public I am certain my view will be bourne out.


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    #288
    Amanda.ie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 185 ✭✭Amanda.ie


    Candie wrote: »
    And referring to her as his wife is inappropriate, since he was her murderer and she was his victim. She shouldn't be solely known by her relationship to her killer.

    She had a name, a name that's barely been mentioned in the media while we've all been hearing what a stand-up guy the child killer who also murdered her was. We all know his name, she deserves to be known by hers.

    For pity sake, she was his wife, he was her husband, he was the children's father. What is the point to this?


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    #289
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,053 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Amanda.ie wrote: »
    For pity sake, she was his wife, he was her husband, he was the children's father. What is the point to this?

    The point is Clodagh was a murder victim that has been airbrushed out of all media reports. While her husband has been lionised as a wonderful man..

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #290
    Tasden
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,166 ✭✭✭Tasden


    Jesus. wrote: »
    Mrs Howe then. First name terms should be reserved for people you know. Nobody here ever heard of the girl 3 days ago.

    The whole point of a name is so that you can refer to the person.


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    #291
    rjpf1980
    Registered Users Posts: 387 ✭✭rjpf1980


    Yellow pack crisps wrote: »
    I honestly don't. Just because he was their father should not absolve him of a heinous act. He killed his wife and three children. I am not trying to pick a fight with you. I am stating that he is a murderer first and a suicide victim second. His wife and kids did not choose death. He chose for them and that is murder.

    You were comparing him to a sadistic psychopathic murderer who raped and slaughtered two little girls.

    Hawe as I see it is a victim of mental illness. A man who was not in his right mind.

    There is an entirely different level of culpability.


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    #292
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,053 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Jesus. wrote: »
    Mrs Howe then. First name terms should be reserved for people you know. Nobody here ever heard of the girl 3 days ago.

    Clodagh wasnt a girl.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #293
    Jesus.
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,794 ✭✭✭Jesus.


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    The point is Clodagh was a murder victim that has been airbrushed out of all media reports. While her husband has been lionised as a wonderful man..

    I don't think that's been the case


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    #294
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 26,052 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    Clodagh was a murder victim that has been airbrushed out of all media reports.

    I think we've just had an example of the kind of thinking that leads to reports that don't even bother to name a victim, while telling us everything about their killer.

    Sure, why bother referring to her by name when we can just call her his wife? She doesn't need to be an individual at all.


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    #295
    Jesus.
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,794 ✭✭✭Jesus.


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    Clodagh wasnt a girl.

    WTF?


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    #296
    Elliott S
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,475 ✭✭✭Elliott S


    The Backwards Man wrote: »
    Schools aren't Gardai, coroners, judges or internet forum experts. The school made a statement about the tragic loss of a teacher and three pupils, which is all they can do. It might be poorly worded but I'd love to say how any of you fireside lawyers could do any better in the same situation

    Oh would you stop. Very easy to mention her too in the statement, even briefly.


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    #297
    rjpf1980
    Registered Users Posts: 387 ✭✭rjpf1980


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    The point is Clodagh was a murder victim that has been airbrushed out of all media reports. While her husband has been lionised as a wonderful man..

    He was a wonderful man. A wonderful man who lost his mind and killed himself and his family. It could happen to anyone.


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    #298
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,053 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Jesus. wrote: »
    I don't think that's been the case

    This isnt about your thoughts here.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #299
    Jesus.
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,794 ✭✭✭Jesus.


    rjpf1980 wrote: »
    He was a wonderful man. A wonderful man who lost his mind and killed himself and his family. It could happen to anyone.

    :pac:


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    #300
    Jesus.
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,794 ✭✭✭Jesus.


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    This isnt about your thoughts here.

    What???


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    #301
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,053 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    rjpf1980 wrote: »
    He was a wonderful man. A wonderful man who lost his mind and killed himself and his family. It could happen to anyone.

    It really couldnt. Why is there a need to excuse his murders?

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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