Newstalk Megathread 22/08/16 to date

SAMTALK

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119640279#Comment_119640279

He can' because his voice is affected after his walk last night through all the smoke from chimneys

Patrick2010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119640604#Comment_119640604

Often preceded by Look as in look I'm sorry but ....

Genghis

Coleman loves to OWN the last word

1. Says something contrary

2. Someone replies to disagree

3. Says the same thing again, with added smugness, often saying: I'm sorry, but you do weren't listening ...

Should just read and accept the alternative view. People are able to make their own minds up, they don't need Shane to force feed them.

whisky_galore

Ugh the pyjamas debate... their premises, their rules.

Don't like it? Off you fcuk to another cafe with yourself, Karen and your sloppy sleepwear buddies.

ButtersSuki

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119541615#Comment_119541615

Was flicking between stations in the car just before 8 and he's still saying it, with added "Beagnach a ocht a clog" this morning...now it may be how he said it but that was also incorrect, and even if allowing for it it should be "tá sé beagnach a hocht a chlog". His direct translations are just appalling, and Irish is not a language that lends itself to direct translation from English.

I'll repeat what I said last time I heard him do this - he shouldn't use the language on air if he can't yes it correctly.

Allinall

I'll repeat what I said last time I heard hike do this - he shouldn't use the language on air if he can't yes it correctly.

LOL

ButtersSuki

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119665391#Comment_119665391

You do understand the difference between a once off typo on a phone and someone repeatedly making the same error verbally over and over?

Or is that beyond your limited comprehension?

Exclamation Marc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119665433#Comment_119665433

I thought your criticism was a bit harsh when you first made it a while back. And then I actually heard him butcher it on the air. Even as someone who's grasp of Irish is middling, it's as clear as day he's just pulling random translations together. I feel like he uses it as it makes him feel somewhat superior, showing how intellectual he is.

leath_dub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119665649#Comment_119665649

Got it in one!

VinLieger

God the worshiping over Terry Prone by shane and ciara this morning was pathetic

leath_dub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119666095#Comment_119666095

You mean Anton's Mammy? She's the bees knees since he got his own show

whisky_galore

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119666095#Comment_119666095

Communications Clinic on yet again on Pat Kenny for yet another free ad. You'd swear they were the only PR company in the country.

ButtersSuki

Everytime Prone, Savage, and the Communications Clinic are mentioned I feel it is important to mention Kate Fitzgerald.

Google "Kate Fitzgerald Communications Clinic" if you don't know what I'm referring to.

jippo nolan

Terry reminds me of a smiling dagger!

Genghis

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119668283#Comment_119668283

Could never stand Phoney Proney. Sickly sweet and calculated.

I can say Savage has a good manner / style as a broadcaster, and is clearly intelligent and clued in; but I can't bear to think of Kate Fitzgerald story anytime he comes on, so I turn off.

Objectively, I have an issue with the principal of a very high profile PR company posing as an impartial presenter. Every chance a minister, for example, is being coached by a spin doctor employed by Savage, then interviewed by him on air.

leath_dub

Jennifer Carrol McNeil and Louise O'Reilly debating the budget. geat to see two protagonist go toe-to-to, rather than each getting uninterrupted slots and avoiding debate. You can sense how spooked FG are by Sinn Fein though - Jennifer Carroll McNeill was reiterating a "squeezed middle" "sinn Fein bad for business" mantra at every opportunity. To be honest the smell of spin dpctors was pervasive - from both parties

ButtersSuki

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119669115#Comment_119669115

It stinks to high heaven.

As does the Fr. Reynolds case and Tom Savage and Prone's roles in it.

But the Kate Fitzgerald story and their behaviour, before, during, and since that incident deserves to be more widely known and discussed.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119665649#Comment_119665649

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119665370#Comment_119665370

Lads you seem to be unaware of the maxim. 'Is fearr Gaeilge bhriste ná Béarla cliste'

I say fair play to the fella for having a go, when so many leave it up to others, or are afraid to use Irish, or worse have an irrational hatred for the Irish language.

Exclamation Marc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119670879#Comment_119670879

I agree. But given that he's using it very infrequently, it would be very easy to correct it and be accurate.

ButtersSuki

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119670879#Comment_119670879

I am fully aware of it.

It was/is intended to be applied to people trying to speak Irish or use more of it in day to day conversation - not by a broadcaster on National Radio; and I'm sure you understand the difference, and why that is important.

As I said when I posted on this a few weeks ago - if he really had some grá for the language, the very least he could do would be to take the time to ask the presenter of Splanc (a Newstalk show as Gaeilge), another Gaeilgeoir (there has to be on in Bauer surely?)....or even his kids' secondary school Irish teacher to give him a hand learning and correctly pronouncing the very few phrases he needs to get through the show. We're talking 15minutes here.

His failure to do so strikes me as a combination of misplaced confidence, arrogance, ignorance, and laziness.

leath_dub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119671403#Comment_119671403

Daithi O'Se was on Newstalk Breakfast recently and invited him to do an iterview with him as Gaeilge which Shane agreed to at the time. He weasled out of it fairly lively after the event of course. Nothing spoofers fear more than being exposed

For Forks Sake

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119670879#Comment_119670879

There's another saying that could apply here "do it well, or not at all"

hold my beer

Is it worth saying at least he's trying? He sounds like a smug git though, but I don't listen to the show.

Allinall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119671403#Comment_119671403

How do you know what the saying was intended for?

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119671497#Comment_119671497

He is a smug git though, but he is a trier. Which is probably why he is there, not afraid to give things a lash.

ButtersSuki

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119671518#Comment_119671518

Really? Doesn't even deserve a comment tbh. So you're just going to deflect and avoid the issue being discussed - i.e. Coleman's butchering of the language.

The phrase was contrived by those hoping to promote wider use of the language - let me guess, you'll ask me for their names and addresses and minutes of the meeting now, right? 🙄 There are many militant Gaeilgeoirs (I'm not one) who insist on 100% correct usage, grammatical structure, and pronunciation even in casual conversation; and the adoption and introduction of this phrase in a more modern setting (we're talking 1970/80s here) and in this context was to encourage people (and specifically those not from Gaeltacht areas) to use what little Irish they had and not to be hung up on speaking the language 100% correctly. Personally, I've always believed that the militant approach of zero tolerance is not helping the language. I draw the line however on a broadcaster using it - with complete confidence in his own articulation - on the National airwaves. In case that's not perfectly clear for you - if he was speaking off air and with friends I would have no issue with his usage, when he uses it on air like this I do. Setting, situation, and context are all important here.

My mother lectured in the language in University from her 20s until she retired. I'm fluent in the language myself. I'd wager I know more on this than you, but feel free to correct me.

The first result on google however is interesting:

Is fearr Gaeilge bhriste ná Béarla cliste???

Posted on May 29, 2010 by gleannghaibhle

I would like to comment on this stupid phrase. First of all, it’s in poor Irish. Gaeilge (=Gaedhilge in the correct Irish spelling) is the genitive form. The base form (now that the nominative of this word is obsolete and replaced by the former dative) is Gaedhilg, with no -e on the end. True, Gaeilge is used for all cases in Galway Irish, but then that is no different to saying that some dialects of English say “you was” instead of “you were”. The fact that the Irish government has “standardized” on the word Gaeilge is also neither here nor there – they have no right to try to change the standard language. Anyone attempting to read the Irish works of the early 20th century (the last gasp of real Irish) will immediately be confronted with the Gaedhilg/Gaedhilge distinction.

Let’s put aside the uneducated morphology and address the meaning. This phrase means “broken Irish is better than clever English”. It is an expression of utter stupidity on the part of anyone who utters this phrase. Nothing of inferior quality is just as good as something done well. If Irish is not going to be taken seriously, it would be better to focus on English instead. If on the other hand, Irish is going to be taken seriously as a subject for study and a vehicle for Irish heritage, “broken Irish” simply will not do.

The rationale behind the “official standard” Irish is that any old thing will do – who cares if it is really traditional Irish or not? It can be endlessly simplified at will by government committees. But the result of that procedure is a type of Irish that is just not traditional Irish. It is “Gaedhilg bhriste” that is being devised and taught nowadays, and Irish people sell themselves and their culture too cheaply when they accede to the notion that broken Irish is somehow a good thing.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119671403#Comment_119671403

National broadcasters can learn Irish by bit as well. There is no law against it. The guy is actually living up to the phrase trying bits of Irish. He is not a national broadcaster as Gaeilge.

Mary Lou McDonald has middle of the road Irish, she would not have the standard to conduct debates as Gaeilge on 'fiscal rectitude' about the budget. So that is left to Pearse Doherty, a fluent Irish speaker. People have different levels of competence in the language.

To knock fella who is on English medium radio for trying a few Irish phrases here and there, seems very mean spirited.

And I always get the feeling that 'hurlers in the ditch' having a go at someone trying the few phrases, would not dream of having the 'cajones' to try something like that themselves.

It is just begrudger stuff really. A jealously of someone who can give things 'a go' without being self conscious about it. It is far easier to be an anonymous negative critic, behind a screen.

ButtersSuki

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119671912#Comment_119671912

Wow, that's what you took from my comments? I'm now jealous of Shane Coleman for his inability to speak Irish, though fluent myself? Oh and a begrudger apparently. Amazing you can't see this as me merely wanting such a dastardly thing as "standards".

Bizarre.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119672039#Comment_119672039

It is not bizarre you are doing a poor service to the Irish language with your attitude. It is because of your attitude many Irish people are fearful of using the language, for fear of being ridiculed.

Have you tried to do an Irish radio programme for example? There are plenty of opportunities to do so in local community radio?

Rather than spitefully criticise Coleman (as you do with other presenters of radio programmes) . Wouldn't you think a far more productive thing to do would be email in phrases to Coleman?

There is also a phrase book/booklet that has been developed for Irish phrases to use for broadcasters (the name of which escapes me) point him to that perhaps?

Instead of being constantly on the negative or gripe something productive/helpful like that might be in order?

ButtersSuki

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119672108#Comment_119672108

If you had bothered to read my post I clarified that were Coleman to use the language casually off air I would not have a difficulty with it; it’s the use of it on-air however that IN MY OPINION is not ok. A student for example might upon hearing Coleman’s Irish assume that because it’s on national radio it must be correct, given the status of the station.

I offered many routes where he could learn his few phrases, but that’s not enough - apparently I have to do it myself personally? Seriously?

This narrative that you and others have contrived that all I do is criticize is BS btw. I praised Oliver Callan as recently as yesterday for example.