Bloggers and #ad (Naming bloggers means a ban!)

Hopeful2016

tatumkelly wrote: »

I think maybe in above cases #ad is just being used incorrectly/without necessity on facebook. If clothes/make up products are given to the blogger it's unlikely they are also receiving a cash payment.

If they're not #ad when they're supposed to, there's no way in hell they are doing it when it's not necessary. I don't buy that explanation at all. Of course they could be getting payment and the goods. Sure they need to have the clothes/ makeup to show them off, that's what they're getting paid for.

blue4ever

There's a few items to note - under contract law there must be 'consideration' to the deal - mostly in the form of cash, but goods/services are consideration as well. So don't languish under the pretence that just because someone didnt get a cash sum that they dont have to decare in terms of #ad.

The ASAI: what a toothless group, it's exactly why 'self regulation' fails so badly at times. Section 2.2(h) says that the code applies to:

Marketing communications in non-paid-for space online, under the control of the advertiser or their agent, including but not limited to advertisers’ own websites, that are directly connected with the supply or transfer of goods, services, facilities, opportunities, prizes and gifts or which consist of direct solicitations for donations.

I'd argue that these bloggers are 'communicating' and using 'gifts'. But so what! What will the ASAI do - write to them and tell them they did wrong!

idunno78

If they are using on blog post but not FB post advertising said blog post they should be. Also should be used in every snap that is about product! Got reply this morning!

tatumkelly

blue4ever wrote: »

don't languish under the pretence that just because someone didnt get a cash sum that they dont have to decare in terms of #ad.

Marketing communications in non-paid-for space online, under the control of the advertiser or their agent, including but not limited to advertisers’ own websites, that are directly connected with the supply or transfer of goods, services, facilities, opportunities, prizes and gifts or which consist of direct solicitations for donations.

I'd argue that these bloggers are 'communicating' and using 'gifts'. But so what! What will the ASAI do - write to them and tell them they did wrong!

I think the biggest problem is lack of clarity. How can bloggers implement guidelines that aren't clear?

According to the above post by blue4ever the ASAI rules would be interpreted to mean that #ad needs to be used in relation to free gifts. But then you have the ASAI Chief Exec quoted in SBP as saying: "One notable exception is in the event of a blogger receiving no payment but free product from a brand or advertiser. As no money has changed hands, the blogger is not required to flag any ensuing content as 'marketing communications'"

dudara

The current guidelines are pretty clear. #ad or #spon are to be used when cash has been exchanged. It's not required for gifts or samples.

Now whether that's right or wrong is a whole different kettle of fish. I personally think anything received should be declared, but that's my opinion

idunno78

''If an advertiser provides free products to a blogger (reviewer or vlogger) with a requirement that a positive review would result, then this review would be considered to be a marketing communication and should be identified as such.

If the product is offered free, but with no expectation that there be a review or that there be a positive review (i.e. the advertiser has no control over any subsequent content) then the material is not marketing communications for the purposes of the ASAI Code. (However, advertisers and others should be aware that the Competition and Consumer Protection Commission may require disclosures under the Consumer Protection Act 2007).''



''Where the reviewer has not been paid or otherwise induced to write a review, then the material is not marketing communication. If however, an advertiser has paid the reviewer (directly or in kind) and where the advertiser has significant control over the content of the review, then it is likely that the material would be considered a marketing communication.''

http://www.asai.ie/wp-content/uploads/ASAI-Guidance-Note-on-Recognisability-in-advertising-V1-Nov-16.pdf

All from ASAI. So they could be given the product and who is to know they weren't asked to post positive review! It's seems to be all a bit of a blurred line!!

retro:electro

I think you can tell when a blogger has been spoon fed lines to promote a product.. "I've been using this for a month now and look at the difference". And que some overtly obvious scientific facts about the product that have obviously been sent on by the company. I agree though that it's getting increasingly difficult to tell a paid for review from an actual review. So are we to be extra sceptical of positive reviews now? The lines are totally blurred! Also, I can't believe a company would actually send out a product and insist on a positive review being written, regardless of it being worthy or not; moreover I cannot actually believe that bloggers agree to do that. Such muck. Most of them are utter liars.

idunno78

Jese there all at it today! Another blogger Snapchat'd about a product this morning! Was in Instagram a few minutes ago and see she has the product up there to but at the end has #sp which I assume is v short for sponsored!? I have sent in complaint about first blogger but haven't for second!

frogstar

Could the lack of hashtags on Snapchat be because it is a 10sec clip that disappears where FB and Instagram stays around?

Not trying to make excuses but I could see it being a pain having to hashtag each snap

fi314

I have no issue with bloggers receiving money to promote a certain amount of products. The work that some put into their websites/blogs is massive. Someone stated a few posts back that we must recognize the difference between Bloggers and Social influencers. The latter being another name for direct marketing. I watched the snap on boob tape highlighted by idunno78 and thought it was genuine. I didn't purchase it, but I am mad at myself for thinking that it was more altruistic. I feel slightly conned. Honestly is best. I respect that they have to make money but just be open.

idunno78

frogstar wrote: »

Could the lack of hashtags on Snapchat be because it is a 10sec clip that disappears where FB and Instagram stays around?

Not trying to make excuses but I could see it being a pain having to hashtag each snap

Might be a pain but if it's the regulations they should have to do it!! I asked the ASAI and they said it should be in every snapchat that is accoicated with the paid for ad. Would take what 10 seconds to do it?!

scarbouro

Looks like some bloggers have noticed this thread! One has just gone on a rant about it. At least they are being made aware that its not going unnoticed and there will be a crack down on it.

heyjude88

idunno78 wrote: »

Might be a pain but if it's the regulations they should have to do it!! I asked the ASAI and they said it should be in every snapchat that is accoicated with the paid for ad. Would take what 10 seconds to do it?!

Exactly.

Sure isn't that what they are "paid" for.....their time and effort. They always say so themselves!

Babyspice13

dudara wrote: »

I personally think anything received should be declared, but that's my opinion

I agree. I added up the value of one bloggers 'look what i got' type of snaps (without #ad) from a Monday to Thursday a couple of weeks back and it came to €887 and that doesn't include the heavily promoting a certain carpet shop where they got their new carpets. This was actually a quiet week for her.

Surely this value should be declared?

GingerLily

There's a very famous dublin blogger who has put up 3 or 4 posts specifically about River Island black Friday sale.
Anyone who shops online with them regularly knows that 20% is nothing special, they have a promo code for 20%/25% about once a month, it's so blatant that she has a financial relationship with River Island but I can't see it stated anywhere.
I'm going to unfollow her her now, I'm so disappointed

Hopeful2016

I noticed last night someone had commented #ad under the VHI fertility post on the Facebook page of one of the Dublin mummy Snapchatters. The original post didn't disclose it was an ad. This morning the comment has been deleted and the post has been edited to include #ad. She was plugging the same thing on Snapchat last night again with no #ad and no mention of it being sponsored content.

idunno78

Hopeful2016 wrote: »

I noticed last night someone had commented #ad under the VHI fertility post on the Facebook page of one of the Dublin mummy Snapchatters. The original post didn't disclose it was an ad. This morning the comment has been deleted and the post has been edited to include #ad. She was plugging the same thing on Snapchat last night again with no #ad and no mention of it being sponsored content.

Some one posted about this last week. Don't know if they were on about same person tho? Same is happening with iron this week. I haven't heard back from ASAI yet not sure how long it takes tho, was only Friday!

cookiesmuggler

blairbear wrote: »

(My deleted post; minus the offensive blogger name. I have addressed her as her boards.ie name now.)

Another Cork blogger yesterday "randomly" got a delivery of flowers for her baby girl. She then plugged the florists. Again, no #ad. Obviously it's less clear there whether she was compensated or not but living in Cork, I've heard her pricelist for posts through a business who approached her, and I'd be surprised if she did it for free. I could just be too cynical though! Not sure why I should use a certain florist because they sent someone else free flowers, but that's beside the point!

the Cork Blogger actually had a bit of a rant about this , so obviously has seen the thread.. She was moaning about having to hashtag ad. !! My question is though, how do the Florists and everyone else that send them stuff, actually get their address? ??They obviously must be contacted first to get that info??

Sunny Dayz

cookiesmuggler wrote: »

the Cork Blogger actually had a bit of a rant about this , so obviously has seen the thread.. She was moaning about having to hashtag ad. !! My question is though, how do the Florists and everyone else that send them stuff, actually get their address? ??They obviously must be contacted first to get that info??

Moaning about having to hashtag everything? It's 3 characters!! If the blogger is a "full-time" blogger then she should be factoring in the time it takes to hashtag across her social media into her work plans.


In relation to the delivery address, many bloggers are linked to a PR company, so supplier would contact PR company for address for forwarding samples and gifts and whatnot.

retro:electro

She actually also said "there's no point hashtagging ad on snapchat because the snaps disappear after a few hours". Don't think she even gets the whole point of declaring it an ad to be honest.

IRE60

I’ve noticed a definite division here where some of the commentators, I think, feel that this particular forum is vindictive or ‘green-eyed’ – I don’t.


I worked in the media and now more on the fringes. I think the rules laid out by some by the ASAI are treated with impunity in parts. It doesn’t apply to them because of a or b. But they do. And if the ASAI is based on self regulation then perhaps forums like these are a way to encourage some of the defaulters to act properly – within the spirit of the ASAI rulings.


If one medium is bound by the rules, then they all are.


Can someone send me a pm a link of the ‘flower rant’ if still available?

Hopeful2016

idunno78 wrote: »

Some one posted about this last week. Don't know if they were on about same person tho? Same is happening with iron this week. I haven't heard back from ASAI yet not sure how long it takes tho, was only Friday!

This was just last night, she was re-promoting it again. Yeah she was plugging it last week too.

miamee

This article I read at the weekend reminded me of this thread. I read the thread but haven't commented before now. I find the whole thing fascinating despite having no interest in beauty or fashion bloggers myself.
In my opinion a blogger does a hell of a lot more work than a snapchatter/iger, blogging takes a lot of time and effort to create your own written content, the others take a lot less time.

Top Irish PR body seeks to curb rogue 'influencers' being paid to sell products and not admitting it

THE BODY THAT represents public relations practitioners in Ireland wants to devise a set of rules to protect consumers from rogue ‘influencers’ that fail to disclose advertisement payments.
The head of the Public Relations Institute of Ireland (PRII), John Carroll, said he plans to host a round-table meeting with Ireland’s top snapchatters, instagrammers and the like to hammer out a set of principles on how to handle paid-for ‘content’...more here

Dolbert

Just wondering if lifestyle websites are subjected to the same #ad rules that bloggers are? I'd have assumed so, but I've seen more than one "article" from a popular Dublin-based site that's really blatantly a giant ad, with no declaration of the fact whatsoever.

meeeeh

Dolbert wrote: »

Just wondering if lifestyle websites are subjected to the same #ad rules that bloggers are? I'd have assumed so, but I've seen more than one "article" from a popular Dublin-based site that's really blatantly a giant ad, with no declaration of the fact whatsoever.

They should be. I am not in marketing and pr and I studied in another country but I presume rules are similar. Advertising articles should be clearly marked as ad and font etc should be different than the rest of newspaper. (IT for example clearly does that in regards to above mentioned VHI promotion). But samples don't need to be disclosed. I don't know how is with bigger pr activities like free cruises or other holidays. I've seen disclaimers that author didn't pay for the trip but I think I also saw articles without mentioning who covered travel cost.

But the whole area is complete minefield. Sometimes some articles are very little more than whatever was passed on by pr companies to media. Similarly you could see big clothing brand advertise heavily in a magazine and their clothing would feature heavily in completely unrelated feature.

In regards to that PR code, I very much welcome it and I suspect this is actually a subject they will be very vocal about. I suspect strict adherence is in their interest because bloggers are cannibalizing their profession.

Sunny Dayz

I think the Social Media influencers (or whatever the correct term is for them) should be governed under the same guidelines as magazines.


To be honest I don't follow most of the main "bloggers", the ones with the most followers whom only seem to post selfies on IG. I follow those who actually buy products, work in paid employment or self employment and blog (as in real blog posts) in their spare time because they have a grá for fashion/beauty/health etc.


But from having a nose at the facebook and instagrammers, their content is more like that of a magazine. Now the only time I buy a magazine is when I'm going on holidays but I get the same kind of vibe. With a magazine much of the content is sponsored, is paid, that's how magazines make money, and they do distinguish advertorials. And you know and understand that from looking at a magazine, there's no second guessing or scepticism required on the part of the reader.

fitzytour

There's one Dublin mummy blogger who is currently talking about infertility! She was doing so on her snapchat and mentioned VHI, I thought nothing of it until I saw on her Instagram she had a post up about VHI and had #ad underneath. I just commented referring to the fact, I didn't see a #ad on snapchat and now the post is deleted! Call me naive but what's that about?!!

miamee

Surely when other media outlets are doing a push on the same thing in the same week, e.g. VHI infertility services last week, they realise that people will know it's an ad anyway?! Or do they think their readers/followers are that clueless?

idunno78

miamee wrote: »

Surely when other media outlets are doing a push on the same thing in the same week, e.g. VHI infertility services last week, they realise that people will know it's an ad anyway?! Or do they think their readers/followers are that clueless?

You would think so! But not necessarily! The blogger that was doing th3 VHI thing I follow on snapchat but not any other social media!! So I didn't realise it was an ad until I saw it posted here!
Also the 2 bloggers snapping about folic acid I only follow one on Instagram. Neither had that it was an ad on snapchat. I looked just now on FB and one has it's an ad in the headline of her shared blogpost the other doesn't!! They both have #ad on Instagram. But unless you follow on all platforms you might not know!

Lux23

miamee wrote: »

Surely when other media outlets are doing a push on the same thing in the same week, e.g. VHI infertility services last week, they realise that people will know it's an ad anyway?! Or do they think their readers/followers are that clueless?

Lots of people are clueless though, they have no concept of how a marketing campaign works. There is zero case law in enforcing consumer protection legislation in this area so bloggers will probably get away it unless someone takes a test case to the courts.