Treating people with mental health issues

Andy From Sligo

Ok - you cannot lock Mentally ill people away like the old days .... but also we cannot go on with some mentally ill people being to a danger to the public by knifing them or shooting them or whatever else they might be capable of .

What are people views / ideas on what can be done to safeguard the public - better than what is being done at the moment? - bar cutting down the long waiting list for people to get medical psychiatric help - what more can be done until these people get the help they need , what is not being done at the moment?

pudzey101

the CRAZY thing is that majority of stabbings and shootings arnt done by mentally ill people at all .

Andy From Sligo

it could be argued that even some Terrorists have some kind of Mental issues also going on ....

mohawk

I think you will find having mental health issues does not equal danger to society. There are thousands living with Mental Health Issues in this country and I think you should think carefully before posting on this kind of topic.
Very few people with Mental Health issues are a danger to others so you can rest easy.

Surreptitious

Oh this isn't a half misinformed thread at all.

StringerBell

Billions of people in the world have mental issues, be it believing in a man in the sky or that the walls talk to them.

corner of hells

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

Ok - you cannot lock Mentally ill people away like the old days .... but also we cannot go on with some mentally ill people being to a danger to the public by knifing them or shooting them or whatever else they might be capable of .

What are people views / ideas on what can be done to safeguard the public - better than what is being done at the moment? - bar cutting down the long waiting list for people to get medical psychiatric help - what more can be done until these people get the help they need , what is not being done at the moment?

What do you think yourself , Andy ?

Pro Hoc Vice

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

Ok - you cannot lock Mentally ill people away like the old days .... but also we cannot go on with some mentally ill people being to a danger to the public by knifing them or shooting them or whatever else they might be capable of .

What are people views / ideas on what can be done to safeguard the public - better than what is being done at the moment? - bar cutting down the long waiting list for people to get medical psychiatric help - what more can be done until these people get the help they need , what is not being done at the moment?

In Ireland and I assume most countries a person who because of mental health issues is a danger to themselves or others can be detained.

Andy From Sligo

corner of hells wrote: »

What do you think yourself , Andy ?

I dont really know - thats why I was looking to others views.

I know that when/if people start getting 'voices in their head' telling them to do something that it can be so powerful that some people simply cannot switch those voices off and it takes over. Its not as easy as that

Arghus

This thread will be fairly mad in the head.

Ted111

Institutionalising people isn't a problem of itself.
But doing and just doping people up, as is the practice, is not good.
Comprehensive and higher quality treatment in wards/instituitions.

Surreptitious

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

I dont really know - thats why I was looking to others views.

I know that when/if people start getting 'voices in their head' telling them to do something that it can be so powerful that some people simply cannot switch those voices off and it takes over. Its not as easy as that

Where did you receive your medical training to ascertain this?

Andy From Sligo

Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »

In Ireland and I assume most countries a person who because of mental health issues is a danger to themselves or others can be detained.

at what level do they have to be for that to happen? ... and do they have to be reported first?

Andy From Sligo

Surreptitious wrote: »

Where did you receive your medical training to ascertain this?

Do I have to be? - do I have to have medical training to have a view?

tomwaterford

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

I dont really know - thats why I was looking to others views.

I know that when/if people start getting 'voices in their head' telling them to do something that it can be so powerful that some people simply cannot switch those voices off and it takes over. Its not as easy as that

If at any stage anyone anywhere presents to a mental health clinic saying there getting voices in their head......

AFAIK they are seen more or less straight away.....you worries are somewhat unfounded

Surreptitious

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

Do I have to be? - do I have to have medical training to have a view?

You made a statement as fact about mental illness which you possibly couldn't know without some kind of first hand knowledge or education on the subject.

TSMGUY

I'd say your average man from Sligo is more dangerous than a mentally ill person:pac:

Andy From Sligo

I have been getting that knee-jerk reaction lately when that UK MP was killed and the Russell Square thing the other night, and the Underground station thing that they were all terrorist acts on behalf of ISIS ... and then it turns out they all have/had mental issues and attacked random strangers.

Andy From Sligo

Surreptitious wrote: »

You made a statement as fact about mental illness which you possibly couldn't know without some kind of first hand knowledge or education on the subject.

you just carry on assuming ....

Water John

There is a very specific protocol for committing some one in this country.
This country has a constitution.
A lot of people have mental issues of various levels. Very few evolve into a situation of danger to others. And then it tends to be family members.
By far the biggest risk is self harm. don't seem to think that is OP's concern.
Not sure of the value or purpose of the thread.

Pro Hoc Vice

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

at what level do they have to be for that to happen? ... and do they have to be reported first?

Yes, or AGS or local medical professionals may get involved. The Mental Health Act 2001 as amended deals with involuntary admission.

8.—(1) A person may be involuntarily admitted to an approved centre pursuant to an application under section 9 or 12 and detained there on the grounds that he or she is suffering from a mental disorder.

Mental Disorder is defined at section 3

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2001/act/25/section/3/enacted/en/html#sec3

Surreptitious

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

you just carry on assuming ....

I'm quoting you. You're making sweeping statements about terrorism and mental illness even going so far as saying, oh you can't lock people up anymore like the old days.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Been watching Suicide Swquad, have we, Andy...?

Andy From Sligo

tomwaterford wrote: »

If at any stage anyone anywhere presents to a mental health clinic saying there getting voices in their head......

AFAIK they are seen more or less straight away.....you worries are somewhat unfounded

You seem to have not heard of stories of people doing something whilst they are on a long waiting list waiting to see a psychiatrist or counsellor then because of cutbacks and not enough trained people (well here in Ireland at least)

Haha - people really go to a doctor and admit they hear voices in their head saying cause harm to yourself or others ? off their own backs ....really?

ArtSmart

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

Ok - you cannot lock Mentally ill people away like the old days .... but also we cannot go on with some mentally ill people being to a danger to the public by knifing them or shooting them or whatever else they might be capable of .

What are people views / ideas on what can be done to safeguard the public - better than what is being done at the moment? - bar cutting down the long waiting list for people to get medical psychiatric help - what more can be done until these people get the help they need , what is not being done at the moment?

Deconstruction of Text by Art.

Ok - you cannot lock Mentally ill people away like the old days

[sigh, sadly]



.... but also we cannot go on with some mentally ill people being to a danger to the public by knifing them or shooting them or whatever else they might be capable of .


[lets lock 'them' all up!]



What are people views / ideas on what can be done to safeguard the public - better than what is being done at the moment?

[please don't let me be alone in my sad limited fear-ridden misunderstanding of life/ people/ mental illness]

- bar cutting down the long waiting list for people to get medical psychiatric help

[which we all know will cost US money.]

- what more can be done until these people

[ those who should be disposed of]

get the help

[elimination]

they need

[don't deserve]

, what is not being done at the moment?

[ so am I right? Let's 'dispose' of 'em all!]


from ArtSmart Deciphering Services Ltd.

Surreptitious

I'm shocked at this. No wonder people are afraid to speak up about their problems.

FizzleSticks

This post has been deleted.

Junkyard Tom

I'd hazard a guess that people with mental health issues are less likely to be a risk to the public than 'normal' people. I can't imagine people who are depressed, anxious, suffering from phobias, OCD, or whatever, feeling compelled to go out and randomly attack strangers.

corner of hells

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

You seem to have not heard of stories of people doing something whilst they are on a long waiting list waiting to see a psychiatrist or counsellor then because of cutbacks and not enough trained people (well here in Ireland at least)

Haha - people really go to a doctor and admit they hear voices in their head saying cause harm to yourself or others ? off their own backs ....really?

I work in an environment with people with varying degrees of mental ill health from low mood right up to treatment resistant varieties and interesting enough "hearing voices" is actually quite common .

I seem to remember a figure being put out that around 25% of people hear voices with vast majority having no ill effect on thier lives.There are support groups.

Oddly enough people do go to doctors hearing voices.How do you think diagnosis are formed.

skywanderer

Being mentally ill is the new way for Politically Correct leftists to deflect attention away from Islamic Terrorists. "He was mentally ill, and it had nothing to do with him being a migrant Muslim terrorist and brainwashed with hate".

Quiete frankly I find it appalling and there really is no low that the Politically Correct and their ilk won't stoop to, the few mentally ill people I know are the biggest danger to themselves and no one else.

Andy From Sligo

so we have come to 27 posts and no one has suggested (well I dont think) how we can safeguard public from possibly being attacked by a person with mental issues or them self harming themselves whilst they are on a very long waiting list to get proper help.

Obviously I would like to wave a magic wand and make help available Immediately for these people but its not happening, so what else is in place or what can be put in place?

What are we at the moment, when people do find the courage to go to the GP they are told there is a huge wating list and you cannot get to see someone for at least 6 months or a year - but here, take these anti depressants, and dont forget to take them - its very important you take them and dont miss a dose and dont drink with them .... and go out for walks in the fresh air . This should keep you going until you get an appointment....

ArtSmart

skywanderer wrote: »

Being mentally ill is the new way for Politically Correct leftists to deflect attention away from Islamic Terrorists. "He was mentally ill, and it had nothing to do with him being a migrant Muslim terrorist and brainwashed with hate".

Quiete frankly I find it appalling and there really is no low that the Politically Correct and their ilk won't stoop to, the few mentally ill people I know are the biggest danger to themselves and no one else.

That's a fair point.

It's not a fair statement.

Nonetheless, killing folk to enhance a cause is, in my book, an act of mental illness.

Still, point taken.

tomwaterford

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

Haha - people really go to a doctor and admit they hear voices in their head saying cause harm to yourself or others ? off their own backs ....really?

Emm yes I've heard of it happening.

Quite why you choose to laugh at it. ...is a measure of your character tbh

Geraldo69

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

so we have come to 27 posts and no one has suggested (well I dont think) how we can safeguard public from possibly being attacked by a person with mental issues or them self harming themselves whilst they are on a very long waiting list to get proper help.

The above happened to my mother , in one year her mother and sister died and her brother got locked up. Took an awful toll on the family , my mother always suffered with depression and it only got worse after this. She went to the doctor who put her on sleeping tablets which only led to persrciption drug abuse and multiple suicide attempts. My mother would wait 3 years before she saw a phsyciatrist.

ArtSmart

ps,a/ I'm drunk

and B/ I define 'cause' as an aspiration or concept outside of one's immediate experience, ie, not an act of self defense.

carry on.

Junkyard Tom

skywanderer wrote: »

Being mentally ill is the new way for Politically Correct leftists to deflect attention away from Islamic Terrorists. "He was mentally ill, and it had nothing to do with him being a migrant Muslim terrorist and brainwashed with hate".

Wait, are you trying to politicise this issue by citing political correctness as a conspiracy by 'leftists' to surreptitiously support terrorism?

Conspiracy theories forum thataway>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Surreptitious

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

so we have come to 27 posts and no one has suggested (well I dont think) how we can safeguard public from possibly being attacked by a person with mental issues or them self harming themselves whilst they are on a very long waiting list to get proper help.

Obviously I would like to wave a magic wand and make help available Immediately for these people but its not happening, so what else is in place or what can be put in place?

What are we at the moment, when people do find the courage to go to the GP they are told there is a huge wating list and you cannot get to see someone for at least 6 months or a year - but here, take these anti depressants, and dont forget to take them - its very important you take them and dont miss a dose and dont drink with them .... and go out for walks in the fresh air . This should keep you going until you get an appointment....

Why would you want protection from someone self harming? It's themselves they are hurting and are aware of it.

Samaris

I'm probably going to regret contributing to this thread.

Few years back, I was diagnosed with a mental health issue. Two, really, or an interconnected one, depending on how you look at it.

Oddly enough, I have never felt the particular need to go stabbing anyone (although I might harbour some fantasies about whapping on the head for people who feel I should perhaps be locked up! :P). On the contrary, the nearest I ever came to doing anyone any harm was myself - which was a good warning that I needed to get back on the anti-crazy pills.

OP, your first post is ignorantly sweeping. What then, constitutes a relevant mental illness? More to the point, what constitutes a mental illness that is in any way likely to cause harm to others in the way of stabbing or shooting? Yep, absolutely some mentally ill people kill people. Some perfectly sane people kill people too - for money, for revenge, for love, for hate, for an ideal, for religion, for country, to protect themselves, to protect others.

Having said that, from -how-, say, Somboly went about his attack, he seemed to be perfectly aware of what he was doing. You can tell from his long planning period. Compared to the London knifing, which appears to be far closer to someone snapping (unpremeditated, no shouting, no acknowledgement of what he was doing, -apparent- disassociation from reality).

So then! What is a mental health issue that you consider relevant to the question of what should be done about us? Any ideas? Schizophrenia maybe? Multiple personality disorder? How about depression, or anxiety or OCD or bipolar disorder or dementia (god knows, all those elderly Alzheimer's patients are a risk to society, aren't they?). Maybe autism? Aspergers? Phobias? Oh, and then there's PTSD, which can indeed cause some sufferers to lash out. It's a bit unfortunate for them that they go through a deeply traumatising experience and are then stigmatised and..ah.."dealt with" by society, but gotta protect the normals, I guess.

You speak of "bar cutting down the long waiting list for people to get medical psychiatric help". Why? Because it's bloody obvious that that might help or because it's too easy, being as wot it's the -obvious thing to do-. You may as well ask "what can we do about all these people with cancer - bar cutting down the long waiting list to see a doctor.

It's a good damn start, isn't it? Oh, and not treating them like they're a bomb about to go off and stab you in the face either, that's also helpful.

Edit: Oh, and as someone with a diagnosed "mental illness" myself, I also don't deny that people with mental illnesses have done some fairly awful things. Several of which we've seen in the past week. Denying that -some- of those people who committed awful crimes were actually suffering from a mental disorder that affected their ability to rationalise like a neurotypical person does them a grave injustice too - much like the OPs comments did in the other direction.

Andy From Sligo

Geraldo69 wrote: »

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

so we have come to 27 posts and no one has suggested (well I dont think) how we can safeguard public from possibly being attacked by a person with mental issues or them self harming themselves whilst they are on a very long waiting list to get proper help.

The above happened to my mother , in one year her mother and sister died and her brother got locked up. Took an awful toll on the family , my mother always suffered with depression and it only got worse after this. She went to the doctor who put her on sleeping tablets which only led to persrciption drug abuse and multiple suicide attempts. My mother would wait 3 years before she saw a phsyciatrist.

my God 3 years - totally unacceptable time to wait, the powers that be what are they thinking of cutting these vital services to the general public. And sleeping tablets prescribed absolutely terrible. And I have heard loads of stories similar to something like this especially the long waiting times but i must say not as long as 3 years!!

Annasopra

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

I have been getting that knee-jerk reaction lately when that UK MP was killed and the Russell Square thing the other night, and the Underground station thing that they were all terrorist acts on behalf of ISIS ... and then it turns out they all have/had mental issues and attacked random strangers.

Ah right ok. All people with mental health problems are murdering terrorists now.

Your Face

I think some people claim mental illness as an excuse to avoid responsibility for otherwise unacceptable behaviour.
This is unfortunate as it can be deemed to reflect badly on genuine people who struggle daily with real mental health issues.

Pro Hoc Vice

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

so we have come to 27 posts and no one has suggested (well I dont think) how we can safeguard public from possibly being attacked by a person with mental issues or them self harming themselves whilst they are on a very long waiting list to get proper help.

Obviously I would like to wave a magic wand and make help available Immediately for these people but its not happening, so what else is in place or what can be put in place?

What are we at the moment, when people do find the courage to go to the GP they are told there is a huge wating list and you cannot get to see someone for at least 6 months or a year - but here, take these anti depressants, and dont forget to take them - its very important you take them and dont miss a dose and dont drink with them .... and go out for walks in the fresh air . This should keep you going until you get an appointment....

I know of persons presenting with serious worries of harming them selves or others they will be detained very quickly, how do I know well I know a solicitor who acts for such persons as his expertise is mental health law, hence why I was aware of the act I earlier linked.

FortySeven

The first thing that could be done is a moratorium of medical care in Ireland. When I go to see my psychiatrist and she doesn't even make eye contact because she is writing up someone else's notes during my appointment. The same psychiatrist that couldn't produce a letter in 6 weeks that I relied upon to gain access to my children.

When my gp doesn't think telling me to 'man up' when I am in the middle of a rapid cycle.

When I'm not prescribed whatever latest ssri that have a history of sending me mental. (I'm bipolar) just because the last industry funded day out told them to prescribe it for everything.

When I go to the lithium clinic and the receptionist bothers her arse to raise her eyes from the magazine she's reading and gets me seen within 30 minutes so I can pretend to my employr that this will only take half an hour. (I've offered to take my own bloods, can't be done)

Being mental in Ireland is medieval. It will take a generation to die to move it into normal. I'm suprised they haven't brought me a priest at this point.

Wigglepuppy

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Ah right ok. All people with mental health problems are murdering terrorists now.

Where did he say that?

Water John

Thanks to those who have shared their own experiences, with a nod to you Forty Seven.
Also to Sky, who brings his own and only angle to bear on this subject

Andy From Sligo

GP's simply are not the right people to go to if you feel depressed or suicidal or get voices in your head ... and not even friends ! - but when you hear soundbites about 'look after your mental health' and they tell you to go to your GP or talk to your friends about your mental health - thats not fair, all these type of people are not medically trained to deal with these issues.

I remember years ago with myself I was very down , started sleeping a lot in bed , feeling groggy and ill and pretty weepy, not sleeping well , things rolling around in head and it was (what the nearest i thought to it) depression - I eventually mustered up in the end and called the doctor and her advice was "Its a lovely fresh day out there , go out for a lovely walk ' when i said, can I have something to calm me down I am all over the place she said to me, we dont prescribe anti depressants these days, my advice to you is that you get out walking instead and dont lie in bed , get up and walk around back garden' - thats the God honest advice I got at that time . I mean was it just me or is that what was/is hapenning with everyone who goes to the doctors when they muster up enough courage to go to the doctors with depression now? - Just told to go out and walk in the fresh air and told there is over a year to speak to a specialist. If it is, holy mother of god!

Andy From Sligo

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Ah right ok. All people with mental health problems are murdering terrorists now.

nope, either you read my post wrong or i didnt word it right ...

Annasopra

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

GP's simply are not the right people to go to if you feel depressed or suicidal or get voices in your head ... and not even friends ! - but when you hear soundbites about 'look after your mental health' and they tell you to go to your GP or talk to your friends about your mental health - thats not fair, all these type of people are not medically trained to deal with these issues.

I remember years ago with myself I was very down , started sleeping a lot in bed , feeling groggy and ill and pretty weepy, not sleeping well , things rolling around in head and it was (what the nearest i thought to it) depression - I eventually mustered up in the end and called the doctor and her advice was "Its a lovely fresh day out there , go out for a lovely walk ' when i said, can I have something to calm me down I am all over the place she said to me, we dont prescribe anti depressants these days, my advice to you is that you get out walking instead and dont lie in bed , get up and walk around back garden' - thats the God honest advice I got at that time . I mean was it just me or is that what was/is hapenning with everyone who goes to the doctors when they muster up enough courage to go to the doctors with depression now? - Just told to go out and walk in the fresh air and told there is over a year to speak to a specialist. If it is, holy mother of god!

Do you think you are/were a risk to the general public because you had depression?

Wigglepuppy

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

so we have come to 27 posts and no one has suggested (well I dont think) how we can safeguard public from possibly being attacked by a person with mental issues or them self harming themselves whilst they are on a very long waiting list to get proper help.

Obviously I would like to wave a magic wand and make help available Immediately for these people but its not happening, so what else is in place or what can be put in place?

What are we at the moment, when people do find the courage to go to the GP they are told there is a huge wating list and you cannot get to see someone for at least 6 months or a year - but here, take these anti depressants, and dont forget to take them - its very important you take them and dont miss a dose and dont drink with them .... and go out for walks in the fresh air . This should keep you going until you get an appointment....

Why are you expecting others to provide an answer? Maybe nobody (yourself included) has an answer?

I think maybe there should be more freedom for the state to intervene, because right now there is a mass of red tape preventing people from sending their loved one for care that they (and their families) badly need. I know one person whose sibling is exceptionally unstable and has been violent, and is viciously aggressive verbally. Their family is on edge wondering what they could do next, and whether it'll take attempted murder for it to be agreed to hospitalise them long term.

But state involvement more readily, comes with its own problems - many would not accept state intervention given the history this country has in terms of institutions.

El Hombre

Surreptitious wrote: »

I'm shocked at this. No wonder people are afraid to speak up about their problems.

What do you bloody expect given any terrorist attack now the perpetrators are labelled as having "mental issues" as God forbid Islam is mentioned in any form at all, Christ no we can't have that let's scapegoat people with mental issues instead.

Any eejit could see using the mental issues to cover up for our cultural enrichers was gonna back fire and set back the small amount of progress that had been made in regards to understanding people with genieune mental health issues.

Water John

Andy, I think the stats are 1:5 visiting a GP is doing so on mental issues, mainly depression and anxiety.
Sorry if you did not have a good GP response but most are now very clued in.
Not sure they get any great training still on mental health, don't know.
I'm lucky as my GP had his own family experience on the subject.