Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email Niamh on [email protected] for help. Thanks :)
New AMA with a US police officer (he's back!). You can ask your questions here

Does Dublin lose out on project spending to rural areas?

  • 20-07-2016 7:38pm
    #1
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 17,101 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Sam Russell


    Mod: I have split these posts off from Dublin Underground as they are off topic but have a significant level of interest to posters.


«1345

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,937 ✭✭✭ mayomaffia


    murphaph wrote: »
    before Dublin has its own mayor with tax raising and spending powers.
    Dublin had its own tax raising power = Property Tax. The council decided to reduce it as it wasn't popular in Dublin. Dublin people elected those Councillors.

    Dublin had its own tax raising power for infrastructure = Water Tax. The people of Dublin refused to pay it. DU money will now be spent on water infrastructure to transport water from the country instead.

    Some of you would want to stop looking down the country for someone to blame for a lack of infrastructure and look at the people of your own city instead for lack of foresight.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,235 ✭✭✭ D.L.R.


    mayomaffia wrote: »
    Dublin had its own tax raising power = Property Tax. The council decided to reduce it as it wasn't popular in Dublin. Dublin people elected those Councillors.

    Dublin had its own tax raising power for infrastructure = Water Tax. The people of Dublin refused to pay it. DU money will now be spent on water infrastructure to transport water from the country instead.

    Some of you would want to stop looking down the country for someone to blame for a lack of infrastructure and look at the people of your own city instead for lack of foresight.

    Its not about Dubliners vs country people. Half of the population of Dublin are from the country and they have to sit in gridlock same as everyone else.

    Its about the Irish govt spending more on infrastructure generally, and prioritising the most economically beneficial projects. They're not doing that.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,937 ✭✭✭ mayomaffia


    D.L.R. wrote: »
    Its not about Dubliners vs country people. Half of the population of Dublin are from the country and they have to sit in gridlock same as everyone else.

    Its about the Irish govt spending more on infrastructure generally, and prioritising the most economically beneficial projects. They're not doing that.

    Exactly and they also need a funding source to pay for them. Cutting property and water tax to suit Dublin protests does not help. Remember most people outside of Dublin pay for their water and always have done.

    Alot of posters here need to redirect there anger. There appears genuine disgust by some at any infrastructural project outside of Dublin. A world does actually exist outside Dublin where people manage to live.

    I'd build Dublin Underground, but not at the expense of the whole country's development. Maybe start with the little things like electing Councillors in Dublin that will give planning permission for buildings that are bigger than a shoebox. Or Councillors that actually want real infrastructure and not more council estates.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,539 ✭✭✭✭ Grandeeod


    mayomaffia wrote: »
    Alot of posters here need to redirect there anger. There appears genuine disgust by some at any infrastructural project outside of Dublin. A world does actually exist outside Dublin where people manage to live.

    And herein lies the problem. Where do you want the anger redirected to?

    Realistically in transport terms the world "outside" Dublin is getting enough to sustain it, while Dublin, the capital city and home to many many people from that world "outside" Dublin, is sinking lower and lower in terms of what it can offer people in terms of public transport. The knock on effect is a poorer than need be quality of life. Add to that the disadvantages it makes to Dublin's economic development.

    The city of Dublin is literally stumbling from boom to bust and back again without any semblence of reality towards its public transport infrastructure. One day it may be found out and that will be detrimental for your home county wheather you realise it or not.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,539 ✭✭✭✭ Grandeeod


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    at the time, I remember writing to Pascal Donohue about this! It was so bloody obvious things were picking up again and we were heading right back to bloody chronic congestion city and also the fact that the joke transport system here, massively hinders housing development...

    And yet here we are a mere 9 months, 9 months after the project was axed. It is simply beyond a joke. Let me guess how things play out from here, they get worse, a whole lot worse...

    Do these IDIOTS not remember what happened a few years ago, because its happening again right now!

    Now if you said that on the radio or TV, it might be heard. Get quoted in a newspaper and it will be read.

    Here...

    its just preaching to the converted.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 1,235 ✭✭✭ D.L.R.


    mayomaffia wrote: »
    Exactly and they also need a funding source to pay for them. Cutting property and water tax to suit Dublin protests does not help. Remember most people outside of Dublin pay for their water and always have done.

    Alot of posters here need to redirect there anger. There appears genuine disgust by some at any infrastructural project outside of Dublin. A world does actually exist outside Dublin where people manage to live.

    I'd build Dublin Underground, but not at the expense of the whole country's development.

    Where are you getting it that Dublin is the only part of the country avoiding property & water tax?

    MY disgust is that these vital projects are getting "optimised" while rural motorway projects for some reason are immune to this.

    All the anger is towards the govt from what I've read here, don't see why you're getting so shirty about that. Unless you are in fact enda kenny which in fairness with a username like that, you could well be.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,937 ✭✭✭ mayomaffia


    D.L.R. wrote: »
    Where are you getting it that Dublin is the only part of the country avoiding property & water tax?

    Anyway, the disgust is that these vital projects sit in limbo while other less important stuff goes ahead.

    All the anger is towards the govt from what I've read here, don't see why you're getting so shirty about that. Unless you are in fact enda kenny which in fairness with a username like that, you could well be.

    Believe me,i want to see MN and DU completed. The other stuff only goes ahead because its so much cheaper and it helps create work in the regions. There is no government that lasts long enough to save for the big ticket items, unless it has a funding source. It will be the same with this government.

    We had a continuous funding source for infrastructure with Irish water and it was scrapped by protest.

    You seen the power one independent can have in the government. There is an enormous amount of TD's in Dublin. Why is there no independents standing for infrastructure in Dublin ? Yet there is plenty standing to abolish water ?

    I can't see those big tickets happening unless a group that has that as its main interest in government gets it done. They would also need to ensure the money is tied specifically for this project. But i would put Dublin city council at the heart of it, they appear to have no major interest in it as its not a vote getter ?

    If there was a vote in Dublin for a 20 euro reduction in bins v DU i'd say the bins would wins it. Likely supported by the council. ( Irish people are too easily bought) There needs to be some type of popular movement behind it for it to happen.

    Like most Mayo people, no fan of Enda. Its one of the only places in the country where unemployment has increased and population dropped since he came to power.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,884 ✭✭✭✭ murphaph


    mayomaffia wrote: »
    Exactly and they also need a funding source to pay for them. Cutting property and water tax to suit Dublin protests does not help. Remember most people outside of Dublin pay for their water and always have done.
    Wut? Dublin has more than enough to pay for all the infrastructure it needs but Dublin money is spent buying votes elsewhere.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,937 ✭✭✭ mayomaffia


    murphaph wrote: »
    Wut? Dublin has more than enough to pay for all the infrastructure it needs but Dublin money is spent buying votes elsewhere.

    Why not elect TD's to specifically do that job ? There will be an election within 12 months. If anything Dublin will go further to the left. If there is money for DU it will be transferred to build social homes in Dublin instead as thats what the populists will demand.

    People get elected in some areas just to stop a wind turbine. Surely it is possible to get 10 TD's in Dublin specifically for DU and MN ?

    On a smaller scale look at what Mayo people had to do to get Knock Airport, They knew how important it was for their futures & every house contributed directly, even those that could not afford it. On top of that fund raising was sourced worldwide, many worked voluntarily to built it. They still pay 10 euros to depart to help fund the airport. At the beginning many people outside of the region tried to stop it but, Its now a success and helps contributes over a 100 million to the exchequer every year.

    DU is a much bigger scale, but its no more important for Dublin than Knock was for the west. Dublin need to get behind and support DU and MN financially, politically or otherwise if they really want it to happen. Otherwise it will be no different in 10 years time.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,235 ✭✭✭ D.L.R.


    mayomaffia wrote: »
    Believe me,i want to see MN and DU completed. The other stuff only goes ahead because its so much cheaper and it helps create work in the regions. There is no government that lasts long enough to save for the big ticket items, unless it has a funding source. It will be the same with this government.

    We had a continuous funding source for infrastructure with Irish water and it was scrapped by protest.

    You seen the power one independent can have in the government. There is an enormous amount of TD's in Dublin. Why is there no independents standing for infrastructure in Dublin ? Yet there is plenty standing to abolish water ?

    I can't see those big tickets happening unless a group that has that as its main interest in government gets it done. They would also need to ensure the money is tied specifically for this project. But i would put Dublin city council at the heart of it, they appear to have no major interest in it as its not a vote getter ?

    If there was a vote in Dublin for a 20 euro reduction in bins v DU i'd say the bins would wins it. Likely supported by the council. ( Irish people are too easily bought) There needs to be some type of popular movement behind it for it to happen.

    Like most Mayo people, no fan of Enda. Its one of the only places in the country where unemployment has increased and population dropped since he came to power.

    There's plenty of advocates for DU and MN. Funding and central govt attitude is the problem, not enthusiasm. Yes its a small state and such projects are a big deal, but then look at Denmark or New Zealand. They're small states and they're building this stuff. Maybe they have a better strategy.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 1,937 ✭✭✭ mayomaffia


    D.L.R. wrote: »
    Maybe they have a better strategy.
    Guaranteed.


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 13,230 Mod ✭✭✭✭ marno21


    All the attention in the Greater Dublin Area from an outsiders point of view seems to be regarding water charges & bin charges. Not wanting to open a can of worms, but mainly from people who don't want to work, therefore have no interest in improving journeys for commuters.

    It's nice to see people have their priorities in order. The TDs around North West Cork are campaigning vigourously for the N22 Macroom/Baile Bhuirne bypass (which is MUCH needed for those not from the area). Yet most of the questioning regarding Metro North recently has been from Robert Troy, a TD for Longford-Westmeath.

    The last 3 Transport Ministers have all been from Dublin. Another bunch who don't care whatsoever about improving the capital.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 13,991 Mod ✭✭✭✭ monument


    mayomaffia wrote: »
    Dublin had its own tax raising power = Property Tax. The council decided to reduce it as it wasn't popular in Dublin. Dublin people elected those Councillors.

    Dublin had its own tax raising power for infrastructure = Water Tax. The people of Dublin refused to pay it. DU money will now be spent on water infrastructure to transport water from the country instead.

    Some of you would want to stop looking down the country for someone to blame for a lack of infrastructure and look at the people of your own city instead for lack of foresight.

    A large percent of people in Mayo -- for example -- have also rejected water charges.

    Mayo councillors reduced the property tax rate despite the poor state the county's finances are in, and dispite the fact that Mayo tax payers are already subsidised by Dublin tax payers.

    With the property tax Revenue has shown that the compliance rate was generally higher in Dublin than in Mayo and, after that, the ability to use Mandatory Deduction At Source Properties for those who did not pay was higher in Dublin.

    All too many Mayo politicians and people blame Dublin for any issues with investment in Mayo. Blaming Dublin is a pastime for many Mayo politicians -- it's only partly died down in recent years given Mayo's high amount of cabinet members and the funding that has meant.

    mayomaffia wrote: »
    Dublin had its own tax raising power for infrastructure = Water Tax. The people of Dublin refused to pay it. DU money will now be spent on water infrastructure to transport water from the country instead.

    This is untrue, water charges were/are a national charge which Dublin would not have been able to divert to transport spending.

    The likes of Dart Underground could have been progressed at the same time as the motorway network if that wasn't focused on following every N-road to the south and south west.

    And a Galway to Clare motorway was funded when Dart Underground could have been saved by spending a relatively small amount on CPOing land before that planning permission ran out and it all had to be started again.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,182 ✭✭✭ cgcsb


    mayomaffia wrote: »
    Dublin had its own tax raising power = Property Tax. The council decided to reduce it as it wasn't popular in Dublin. Dublin people elected those Councillors.

    Dublin had its own tax raising power for infrastructure = Water Tax. The people of Dublin refused to pay it. DU money will now be spent on water infrastructure to transport water from the country instead.

    Some of you would want to stop looking down the country for someone to blame for a lack of infrastructure and look at the people of your own city instead for lack of foresight.

    Dublin property tax was mostly redistributed around the country, despite promises. Water charges were nation wide, and if successful, the bulk of the money would have been spent outside Dublin on improving regional waste water and water supply facilities. Dublin already has a number of state of the art water and waste water treatment facilities. The only capital works required in the capital would have been replacing pipes.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,182 ✭✭✭ cgcsb


    mayomaffia wrote: »
    Exactly and they also need a funding source to pay for them. Cutting property and water tax to suit Dublin protests does not help. Remember most people outside of Dublin pay for their water and always have done.

    So the mass movement of people travelling from all parts of the state(likely spending more than their annual water fees on the journey) to protest water charges in Dublin was lost on you?


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,182 ✭✭✭ cgcsb


    mayomaffia wrote: »
    I'd build Dublin Underground, but not at the expense of the whole country's development.

    I think that's where the problem lies, the state is now committed to spending upwards of €3bn on effectively rural motorway schemes, one to Tuam and the others criss-crossing Wexford including the state's largest cable stay bridge designed to bypass the mega city of New Ross.

    These schemes combined won't carry a fraction of the people movements that say DARTu would, yet they are being prioritised.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,516 ✭✭✭✭ Idbatterim


    These schemes are not only now essential for relieving congestion. Equally as important in my opinion. Is the huge amount of extra housing they would permit...


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,754 ✭✭✭✭ emmet02


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    These schemes are not only now essential for relieving congestion. Equally as important in my opinion. Is the huge amount of extra housing they would permit...

    This is the most important bit that was missing from Coveney's plan. The ignorance of the interdependence of housing and transport.

    If we make the "Greater Dublin Area" far greater by linking sites further out of the city with an adequate transport network, then we greatly increase the number of 'sexy' sites that people can build some houses on as people can legitimately live further from the city (in distance) without being impossibly far (commute) from work.

    Every additional mile in distance for 'commutability' disproportionately increases the number of suitable sites. Every additional suitable site that is opened up is an increase in the supply of land. Every increase in the supply of land reduces the cost of that land. Reducing the cost of land will bring down one of the main OTT costs of building houses. We reduce the cost of building and supplying houses and guess what happens! More houses get built!

    Wahey! We build great, proactive transport infrastructure to improve the viability of commuting. We get many, many advantages from it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,937 ✭✭✭ mayomaffia


    cgcsb wrote: »
    mayomaffia wrote: »
    I'd build Dublin Underground, but not at the expense of the whole country's development.

    I think that's where the problem lies, the state is now committed to spending upwards of 3bn on effectively rural motorway schemes, one to Tuam and the others criss-crossing Wexford including the state's largest cable stay bridge designed to bypass the mega city of New Ross.

    These schemes combined won't carry a fraction of the people movements that say DARTu would, yet they are being prioritised.
    It is not just a road to Tuam. It bypasses several towns and is a north south arterial route. It allows business and travel to operate which is severely hampered otherwise. Is is the equivalent of the M50 for Dublin, just 40 years later. That road is also 500 million so not to confuse anything, and also employs 100's of workers.

    Why not put a 5 departure tax on all passengers leaving Dublin airport, like elsewhere. It would generate enough funds to CPO the Metro North land within 5 years ??? Probably not popular in Dublin so it will not happen.

    There is over 5 billion been allocated for social housing by 2020, this will almost be exclusively be spent in Dublin.(Again higher density living via DCC should of prevented the need for most of this). Why not use some of this money for DU instead ?? Probably not popular in Dublin so it will not happen.

    You need to start looking in your own back yard for solutions instead of looking at stopping other essential projects.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,884 ✭✭✭✭ murphaph


    mayomafia is right about one thing though....Dubs are in general terribly apathetic while our cousins from the provinces are often well organised and professional in their lobbying efforts. Perhaps it's easier in small provincial towns to focus on a single issue like the closure of an A&E or whatever, rather than getting a critical mass of Dubs interested in DU, which seems like an impossible dream to most. The vast majority of people simply accept it as a given that we'll never build such infrastructure, that we'll only ever see it when we visit huge cities like London, New York or Palma de Mallorca.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 18,884 ✭✭✭✭ murphaph


    mayomaffia wrote: »
    Is is the equivalent of the M50 for Dublin, just 40 years later.
    Come on now, be honest in your postings:
    An orbital motorway for Dublin was first proposed in the Dublin Transportation Study of 1971. Construction began on the first section, the Western Parkway (J6-J11) in 1987, and opened to traffic in 1990. This was followed by the Northern Cross Route (J3-J6) in 1996, the Southern Cross Route (J11-J13) in 2001, and the Southeastern Motorway (J13-J17) in 2005.
    So it the (semi) orbital motorway was actually completed 11 years ago and 34 years after first being proposed in the DTS.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,182 ✭✭✭ cgcsb


    mayomaffia wrote: »
    It is not just a road to Tuam. It bypasses several towns and is a north south arterial route. It allows business and travel to operate which is severely hampered otherwise. Is is the equivalent of the M50 for Dublin, just 40 years later. That road is also 500 million so not to confuse anything, and also employs 100's of workers.

    The traffic count on the existing N17 is about 13,800 AADT. A motorway is overspec for that volume.

    mayomaffia wrote: »
    Why not put a 5 departure tax on all passengers leaving Dublin airport, like elsewhere. It would generate enough funds to CPO the Metro North land within 5 years ??? Probably not popular in Dublin so it will not happen.

    Because we've already raised tens (hundreds??) of millions in development levies for metro north, which basically got redistributed to the regions. We already pay enough taxes into the transport budget to get these projects done. land costs in the metro north project are quite low anyway. Besides DU will result in a huge improvement in rail services as far away as Kerry so it's not like the benefits are contained here.
    mayomaffia wrote: »
    There is over 5 billion been allocated for social housing by 2020, this will almost be exclusively be spent in Dublin.(Again higher density living via DCC should of prevented the need for most of this). Why not use some of this money for DU instead ?? Probably not popular in Dublin so it will not happen.

    not part of the transport budget.
    mayomaffia wrote: »
    You need to start looking in your own back yard for solutions instead of looking at stopping other essential projects.
    ehh, the good people of connacht are not raising enough revenue to build the M17. If Dublin has to raise it's own revenue for infrastructure fair enough, so long as everywhere else has to do likewise.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,937 ✭✭✭ mayomaffia


    I wouldn't say raise there own in Dublin as they already do it, but prioritise it. Its always the easy choice been made with that money.

    There will still be people complaining about not enough social housing in 2020. If there is money available as there appears to be then some of it should be diverted to DU and use the taxes generated from it to fund social housing afterwards. The government's problem with that is they would be punished by the electorate in Dublin and not rewarded. There is no incentive. Its the opposite outside Dublin, a new road or road improvement gets votes as its a lifeline.

    You need a lobby group in Dublin that can out shout PBP AAA. and Sinn fein.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,937 ✭✭✭ mayomaffia


    For a proper metro to work the extra housing should be going upwards not outwards.
    Dublin city planners need to remove the height restrictions. If done correctly they would attract a lot of the high salaried commuting employees into Dublin city centre and free up homes in the commuter belt for social housing.

    Higher density makes a proper city metro much more feasible.


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 13,230 Mod ✭✭✭✭ marno21


    mayomaffia wrote: »
    For a proper metro to work the extra housing should be going upwards not outwards.
    Dublin city planners need to remove the height restrictions. If done correctly they would attract a lot of the high salaried commuting employees into Dublin city centre and free up homes in the commuter belt for social housing.

    Higher density makes a proper city metro much more feasible.
    The obsession with sprawl has to stop if we are to sort this housing issue out. We can't be using all this prime city land to build more houses, there are plenty of people who would live in decent apartment blocks so build them.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭ LeinsterDub


    mayomaffia wrote: »

    Higher density makes a proper city metro much more feasible.

    The last report had a ROI of 2 to 1 how much more feasible does it need to be?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,235 ✭✭✭ D.L.R.


    mayomaffia wrote: »
    I wouldn't say raise there own in Dublin as they already do it, but prioritise it. Its always the easy choice been made with that money.

    There will still be people complaining about not enough social housing in 2020. If there is money available as there appears to be then some of it should be diverted to DU and use the taxes generated from it to fund social housing afterwards. The government's problem with that is they would be punished by the electorate in Dublin and not rewarded. There is no incentive. Its the opposite outside Dublin, a new road or road improvement gets votes as its a lifeline.

    You need a lobby group in Dublin that can out shout PBP AAA. and Sinn fein.

    Thats exactly why people are calling for an elected mayor for all of Dublin.

    Dublin City Council is just the inner city. The outer suburbs and commuter belt are demographically quite different, but don't get to elect DCC councillors. So DCC ends up far more leftist than the rest of the city.

    That's why we need a more representative body speaking for the whole city.

    Cork city has a similar problem.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,516 ✭✭✭✭ Idbatterim


    look lads, electorate this electorate that! Lets be honest, they dont have a clue about most issues! Should we rip up the Luas network? Im sure many of them thought that was exuberant :rolleyes:

    I can call a spade a spade here! Good luck doing it as a politican!


  • Registered Users Posts: 27,430 ✭✭✭✭ Hotblack Desiato


    Reuben1210 wrote: »
    What was the original rationale for splitting Dublin into 4 councils?

    Corruption and lack of accountability. Councillors in (say) Swords could vote for a rezoning in (say) Dun Laoghaire, and vice versa, and each could go back to their voters and say that isn't the rezoning in our area awful altogether and we all voted against it but we got overruled. Brown envelopes greased the wheels too.

    mayomaffia wrote: »
    Exactly and they also need a funding source to pay for them. Cutting property and water tax to suit Dublin protests does not help. Remember most people outside of Dublin pay for their water and always have done.

    Most people within Dublin paid it too.
    Alot of posters here need to redirect there anger. There appears genuine disgust by some at any infrastructural project outside of Dublin.

    The disgust is at the difference in priorities and how cost/benefit gets massaged or ignored to suit a very short-sighted political agenda.
    I'd build Dublin Underground, but not at the expense of the whole country's development.

    When are people going to realise that NOT building Dart Underground is at the expense of the whole country's development?

    Believe me, this is not some sort of zero-sum game Dublin vs. Everywhere Else which many outside this thread appear to think. How about we allow the area which already generates vast quantites of tax spent there and elsewhere to grow and generate even more tax for the benefit of there and elsewhere? Dublin is going to keep growing anyway, we may as well plan for and provide for growth.

    "12 pages in and it still needs to be explained to some posters why this guy ended up where he did. It probably explains why so many gobshites get elected in this country."



  • Advertisement
  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 13,991 Mod ✭✭✭✭ monument


    mayomaffia wrote: »
    I wouldn't say raise there own in Dublin as they already do it, but prioritise it. Its always the easy choice been made with that money.

    There will still be people complaining about not enough social housing in 2020. If there is money available as there appears to be then some of it should be diverted to DU and use the taxes generated from it to fund social housing afterwards. The government's problem with that is they would be punished by the electorate in Dublin and not rewarded. There is no incentive. Its the opposite outside Dublin, a new road or road improvement gets votes as its a lifeline.

    You need a lobby group in Dublin that can out shout PBP AAA. and Sinn fein.

    Yes, it is priorities. But, while I know you don't want to accept this, it's mainly not a choice between housing and Dublin's transport, it's a choice between Metro/Dart and other large scale transport projects spread across the country.

    It's not the Tuam project alone -- there's a string of over spec projects. A dual carriageway between Castlebar and Westport has to be prime example. Crazy it got past planning when a dual carriageway between Ballina and Castlebar was viewed to be overkill.

    Housing is a relatively new issue anyway, the overspend on motorway projects was going on in boom times when rail projects in Dublin were being left to last.

    And it's not the electorate in Dublin they are worried about at all -- they are afraid of the Dublin gets everything bandwagon. People in small towns complain about marginal traffic jams on what are relatively very short commutes when Dublin suffers far greater traffic congestion and longer commutes but the view in more rural areas is Dublin has good public transport. When there was flooding in the Midlands people called a regional road "our M50" with no sense of perspective of what a shutdown of the M50 has on the national economy.

    mayomaffia wrote: »
    For a proper metro to work the extra housing should be going upwards not outwards.
    Dublin city planners need to remove the height restrictions. If done correctly they would attract a lot of the high salaried commuting employees into Dublin city centre and free up homes in the commuter belt for social housing.

    Higher density makes a proper city metro much more feasible.

    That's quite frankly more nonsense.

    Dublin city and suburbs has a population density around the same as Amsterdam -- a city with more than one metro line. You're following nonsensical myths which try to make out Dublin isn't yet sutable for metros or Dart underground etc. It very much so is sutable and saying otherwise just makes it clear you don't know much about the project or are guided by misinformation.


Advertisement