Nice - Bastille day **mod warning post 1**

IrishTrajan

Stacksofwacks wrote: »

that makes absolutely no sense what you just said there

You are disputing whether Islam should be banned, on the basis that the attacks are rare and sporadic.

Should the IRA be unbanned since its attacks from 1998 onwards have been sporadic and rare?

timmy880

Failure to inform police of radicals in your area (the Paris attackers hid out in a Muslim suburb in Brussels for months). Open support or condoning of extremists. Any sort of affiliation with extremists.

The result can be either deportation or placed under Gardaí surveillance. I'd even go so far as to using the Special Criminal Court in instances where we are aware of them having ill intent towards the public.

Gardai surveillance? What good is that? They've already said they don't have the resources to deal with gang related crimes in Dublin, never mind having to respond to public reports of "extremism"

Stacksofwacks

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

The question still stands though.

How often is often enough for you to consider Islam to be considered incompatible with Western civilisation?

It may well be incompatible but it is a big step to just ban it outright

Rainman16

Waking up this morning and the latest death toll has risen to 84 people.

I believe something needs to be done to stop radical Islamic terrorism, But I think its impossible to go to war with an ideology. You can bomb as many Islamic State cities as you want but radical Islamic terrorism exists everywhere there is a Muslim man who believes in the ideology.

Reports say this attacker was born in Tunisia, living in France, The Paris attack leader Salah Abdeslam was of Moroccan origin, Born in France and living in Belgium.

Nothing will be done about this. Attacks will continue to happen.

IrishTrajan

timmy880 wrote: »

Gardai surveillance? What good is that? They've already said they don't have the resources to deal with gang related crimes in Dublin, never mind having to respond to public reports of "extremism"

I am quite sure we can lobby Europol for funding. Or ask the British for help in identifying and monitoring threats.

Stacksofwacks

IrishTrajan wrote: »

You are disputing whether Islam should be banned, on the basis that the attacks are rare and sporadic.

Should the IRA be unbanned since its attacks from 1998 onwards have been sporadic and rare?

no more than ISIS should be unbanned, its not islam carrying out the attacks

ebbsy

IrishTrajan wrote: »

I am quite sure we can lobby Europol for funding. Or ask the British for help in identifying and monitoring threats.

The fuzz don't come out when it's raining remember.

Lovely Bloke

Stacksofwacks wrote: »

its not islam carrying out the attacks

it's a branch of Islam which is taking the teachings of Mohammed and transplanting them to the 21st century.

Mohammed advocated for, among other things, the murder or infidels.

This was the murder of infidels, they are carrying out the teachings of their prophet.

IrishTrajan

Stacksofwacks wrote: »

no more than ISIS should be unbanned, its not islam carrying out the attacks

Well it sure as fúck isn't atheists carrying out Islamist attacks.

BoJack Horseman

Stacksofwacks wrote: »

It may well be incompatible

Again, how often does this have to happen before "may be incompatible" eventually progresses into "is incompatible"?

Forgive the persistence, but it is important to know.

If Europe can at least know & accept the threshold of slaughter required before the penny finally drops, then that would be something.

BoJack Horseman

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

Mohammed advocated for, among other things, the murder or infidels.

This was the murder of infidels, they are carrying out the teachings of their prophet.

Indeed.

They are just observing the articles of their faith as it is plainly written.

Sanctions against Islam or Muslims like banning it is as nuts as saying "ban the Irish/ban Irish nationalism" when our terrorists bombed pubs and discos.

Lovely Bloke

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Indeed.

They are just observing the articles of their faith as it is plainly written.

Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers

Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah

They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks.

I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them

It is not for a Prophet that he should have prisoners of war until he had made a great slaughter in the land

So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captive and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them

Fight against them so that Allah will punish them by your hands and disgrace them and give you victory over them and heal the breasts of a believing people

Lovely Bloke

but but but what about the bible, it says to kill people too!!!

yeah but nobody actually is, not on this scale.

BoJack Horseman

Deleted User wrote: »

Sanctions against Islam or Muslims like banning it is as nuts as saying.

There are already sanctions & restrictions in some countries against hateful ideologies.
Adding one more to the list doesn't seem impossible.

Of course eliminating such cancerous ideologies entirely is impossible.... after all, nazism still finds fertile ground in certain parts of Europe.

But make no mistake, restricting hateful ideology is very doable, it's already being done.

IrishTrajan

Deleted User wrote: »

Sanctions against Islam or Muslims like banning it is as nuts as saying "ban the Irish/ban Irish nationalism" when our terrorists bombed pubs and discos.

The British are completely justified in stopping Irish nationalists from entering Britain if the IRA starts a bombing campaign. Just as we should be completely justified in stopping Islamists from coming here.

An Irish life means more to me than the feelings of a thousand Arabs, just as a British person should feel a British life is more important to them than the desire of a thousand Irish nationalists to enter Britain.

RobertKK

RobertKK wrote: »

If you pray, then pray for the families and the loved ones of the victims, and keep the people who have to deal with these situations in your thoughts.
None of us want to think of what first responders - medics, police and all the others who have to clean up the scene of what they have to deal with.

There were more than 40,000 people present for the fireworks.

Praying...because that worked a treat all the other times. Praying to a God that either allows sh*t like this to happen weekly or doesn't exist at all. It's poxy religion that's at the origin of all these bloody attacks. We will look back at religion in the same way we look back at people who believed the earth was flat. Nobody lives in the sky.

Stacksofwacks

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Again, how often does this have to happen before "may be incompatible" eventually progresses into "is incompatible"?

Forgive the persistence, but it is important to know.

If Europe can at least know & accept the threshold of slaughter required before the penny finally drops, then that would be something.

I dont really know the answer to that. time will tell. normal, peaceful muslims we can co-exist with in western society I am sure. if the extreme elements keep getting stronger and attacks keep on an upward trajectory the of course we will have major problems. but at the moment, its about containing these extreme elements rather than banning islam in western countries outright, we arent at that stage yet

rjpf1980

gosplan wrote: »

In a world without borders the days where the west could fcuk up a region and not worry about it are over.

I've no idea how to deal with radical Islam. I think it's going to take a lot of time.

But people here need to cop on and realise that this is not about Islam.

If the world had treated South America in the same manner for the last 100 years, it's guaranteed we'd all be talking about radical Catholicism.

It's not even that hard to understand.

We are not fighting radical.Catholicism. We are fighting Radical Islam. We need to win. End of.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

Yeah exactly, lives are more important than feelings of "oppressed" groups. Why are we bending over backwards to accommodate that stupid disgusting religion? I'm not saying target the people, I know some people that are Muslim and they're nice people but it has no place in civilised society


Mod-Banned

Lovely Bloke

if this

whatabout that

if only the other

IrishTrajan

Stacksofwacks wrote: »

I dont really know the answer to that. time will tell. normal, peaceful muslims we can co-exist with in western society I am sure. if the extreme elements keep getting stronger and attacks keep on an upward trajectory the of course we will have major problems. but at the moment, its about containing these extreme elements rather than banning islam in western countries outright, we arent at that stage yet

Why does it need to get to that stage in the first place?

Should the emotions of some Muslims take precedence over the lives of Europeans?

IrishTrajan

IrishTrajan wrote: »

The British are completely justified in stopping Irish nationalists from entering Britain if the IRA starts a bombing campaign. Just as we should be completely justified in stopping Islamists from coming here.

They didn't.

They didn't round up all the Irish either, or force us to "integrate", or stop us "being Irish", or deport us en masse following terrorist attacks.

Because even decades ago they were nuanced enough to separate the extremist terrorists from the vast majority, and to appreciate that sanctions against the majority only inflames the situation.

Hurtbuthealing

IrishTrajan wrote: »

Should the emotions of some Muslims take precedence over the lives of Europeans?

And what about the millions of Muslims who are European???

Stacksofwacks

IrishTrajan wrote: »

Why does it need to get to that stage in the first place?

Should the emotions of some Muslims take precedence over the lives of Europeans?

you are assuming the worst, it may never get to that stage and its up countries to fight terrorism to ensure that it dosent.

JPCN1

One things for sure,the cost of the hubris of this generation will be paid for with the blood of future generations. I guess it was ever thus.
Enda, can we please bring our Navy home?

Mint Aero

Dirty scumbags should be nuked into oblivion. C*ntin c*nt bags.

IrishTrajan

Deleted User wrote: »

They didn't.

They didn't round up all the Irish either, or force us to "integrate", or stop us "being Irish", or deport us en masse following terrorist attacks.

Are you actually that deluded that you think Irish people didn't integrate into Britain? The entire country stopped speaking Irish, people with Irish parents and grandparents who were born in England still identify as English, their participation rate is the same as natives. They're virtually indistinguishable, aside from the few that have decided to apply for Irish citizenship since Brexit in the fact that they'll soon carry Irish passports with them.

A far cry from the 2nd generation immigrants who tend to be more likely to be radicalised than their parents.

The British are completely and utterly within their rights to stop the Irish from going to Britain if the IRA bombs them. Whether they do or not is up to them.

Deleted User wrote: »

Because even decades ago they were nuanced enough to separate the extremist terrorists from the vast majority, and to appreciate that sanctions against the majority only inflames the situation.

If we're not allowing Islam into the country, how, pray tell, will this inflame the situation? What are they going to do, sneak through Europe and lob rocks at us from Holyhead? Invade us?

If they're willing to attack us over something so natural as us not wanting to have our citizens killed, maybe they're not that peaceful after all?

IrishTrajan

Hurtbuthealing wrote: »

And what about the millions of Muslims who are European???

Well it's simple. They can choose Europe, or they can choose Islam. The choice is up to them.

_Brian

It's very easy to look to the Middle East all the time and shake heads about these extremists and blame Islam for everything.

Am I the only one that thinks that the roots of the hate for France et al started with their horrific colonial past and ongoing interference in oil producing mid eastern countries.

France doesn't stand with an unblemished history, many atrosities were committed by the French on foreign soils just to expand their empire. Many French nationals are descendants from these former colonies, they are very marginalised by the General French state and live in ghettos where radicalisation of individuals is easy.
Nothing excuses what has happened, but it's important to remember that the seeds of this current discontent were sown partly by the French state itself and are being cultivated by others with a hatred for the west, in some cases a well founded hatred too.