Lock, Stock and Chitchat a Seacht

Waffletraktor

OverRide wrote: »

I think if all farmers tried to sell their land in the morning,it wouldn't sell because there'd not be enough buying
It's not an option ergo the comment is not useful

People commenting that we're all sitting on millions need to recognise that fact
If everyone liquified,most get very little or nothing
No bids

But how likely is a mass sale anytime soon, where as now, today many farmers have assets worth alot of money. Lack of profitability is a seperate issue, unless you have some strange family trust esq clause from previous owner about selling it if you could have a better living by investing or reskilling after liquidating some of the asset?

OverRide

The point is and the point always is,unless everybody sells up and gets out of farming there will always be the majority with a genuine reason to moan about the lack of a worthwhile return
To fix that everyone would have to get out but that wouldn't fix it because if that happened as I said,you'd not get tuppence for the land

Ergo my point that 'ah yer sitting on millions ' is an unhelpful thing to say and largely a cop out to be honest

Dawggone

OverRide wrote: »

The point is and the point always is,unless everybody sells up and gets out of farming there will always be the majority with a genuine reason to moan about the lack of a worthwhile return
To fix that everyone would have to get out but that wouldn't fix it because if that happened as I said,you'd not get tuppence for the land

Ergo my point that 'ah yer sitting on millions ' is an unhelpful thing to say and largely a cop out to be honest

Poor logic to argue from the specific to the general, and visa versa.

Waffletraktor

OverRide wrote: »

The point is and the point always is,unless everybody sells up and gets out of farming there will always be the majority with a genuine reason to moan about the lack of a worthwhile return
To fix that everyone would have to get out but that wouldn't fix it because if that happened as I said,you'd not get tuppence for the land

Ergo my point that 'ah yer sitting on millions ' is an unhelpful thing to say and largely a cop out to be honest

In the uk active farmers now make up 45% of land purchasers for Ag use, and this is for smaller plots more so as money looks for cheap inheritance tax and hedge funds buying speculating. This is slowly happening in ireland ala coolemore, things change slowly in ireland this is nothing new.
You dont need to own land to be a farmer, you do need to be profitable though.

OverRide

Dawggone wrote: »

Poor logic to argue from the specific to the general, and visa versa.

A sure sign I'm right What next Godwin's law?

Waffletraktor wrote: »

In the uk active farmers now make up 45% of land purchasers for Ag use, and this is for smaller plots more so as money looks for cheap inheritance tax and hedge funds buying speculating. This is slowly happening in ireland ala coolemore, things change slowly in ireland this is nothing new.
You dont need to own land to be a farmer, you do need to be profitable though.

Very small beer though is land purchase because as an aside to the point I'm making farmers in Ireland do a 'the field ' as regards land and are resigned to their situation regarding profit

I don't subscribe to that but am long in the tooth enough to have an ongoing plan for volatility for decades anyway

Nekarsulm

OverRide wrote: »

I think if all farmers tried to sell their land in the morning,it wouldn't sell because there'd not be enough buying
It's not an option ergo the comment is not useful

People commenting that we're all sitting on millions need to recognise that fact
If everyone liquified,most get very little or nothing
No bids

My comment was heavily laced with sarcasm, which probably didnt come across.
My point was (obliquely) that the value of assets you use to make your living have often little relation to the level of income generated. If I worked for Intel, would it be fair to tax me on the fixed asset value of the Campus I work in?
4500 people working in a plant that cost 12 billion to build, whats that, 3 million per worker?

Waffletraktor

OverRide wrote: »

Very small beer though is land purchase because as an aside to the point I'm making farmers in Ireland do a 'the field ' as regards land and are resigned to their situation regarding profit

I don't subscribe to that but am long in the tooth enough to have an ongoing plan for volatility for decades anyway

Do you think the field attitude is solely an irish thing?!
The only way to afford any amount land now is born into it, go earn it in other industry, be one of the few exceptionals. You dont need to own land to farm it, just be profitable to stay at it.
Land in a stable country where the local mob wont arrive and combine your crop for "you" or the locals wont decide your cattle would be better in their herds. Land on an island which is getting less and less in a slowly growing in urbanising society . Its fair to say the potential income is low, but the asset value if cashed in tommorow is high for the individual and not your doomsday scenario.

carrollsno1

Re farmers whinging about poor income e.g at the if a dairy crisis meeting in Kilkenny recently saying we'd be better off planting instead of borrowing money for the pleasure of milking cows why dont they plant it to f*ck or set it to a young progressive farmer who is optimistic but realistic at the same time I just can't get over dairy farmers whinging the whole time and are still pumping there cows with meal the whole time while there are other farmers getting away with feeding minimal amounts I know not everyone can operate like that due to land type but from what I can see is it's the lads who have all the flashy gear and sheds who are whinging the whole time that's my 2 cents anyway as bad a year as dairy farmers have they generally do better than most other farming sectors year on year not saying beef farmers are not whinging or anything

Grueller

To be fair there are whingers in every occupation. Farming is no better or worse than any other in my limited experience.
I see overrides point, but we are not owed a living. If all of these sectors that are cited on here from time to time are so good why do we not go to them? The land you say? Ten year lease would fetch me €20,000 tax free on top of the salary. That would be as much as many people earn in their primary employment.

I'll tell you why we don't go. These other jobs are not as easy as people mouth about on the web and that is the bottom line.

OverRide

Waffletraktor wrote: »

Do you think the field attitude is solely an irish thing?!
The only way to afford any amount land now is born into it, go earn it in other industry, be one of the few exceptionals. You dont need to own land to farm it, just be profitable to stay at it.
Land in a stable country where the local mob wont arrive and combine your crop for "you" or the locals wont decide your cattle would be better in their herds. Land on an island which is getting less and less in a slowly growing in urbanising society . Its fair to say the potential income is low, but the asset value if cashed in tommorow is high for the individual and not your doomsday scenario.

There is another route to owning land Glanbia will happily promote a young fella into a milk flex loan but I'd be advising going to France using Dawg as a template before I'd do that if I had my life back if farming is that much of a draw

My point anyway put more succinctly after all that is the return on land from farming is low which is a grievance and will always be low because obviously if you're farming it you haven't sold it,and (2) if you have sold, the people who haven't sold it are in the boat you used be in ie cash poor and (3) if they're not,by the time there's no one left farming because they've sold it all,the price they've got is little or nothing or no bid at all

It's theoretical to that level obviously but proves the point that emphasising the value of the asset is too simplistic and unrealistic if not immediately available as an option to everyone

kollegeknight

Shur every side thinks the other has the life. I am taking over my mams farm. 70 odd acres of water. Auctioneer valued it at 1k an acre for a lot of it and said he wouldn't get it. It's the family farm and I'd never sell it but considered planting the bad part and it failed planning. Waiting on hovercraft technology to manage the rushes.

Brothers think it's worth 10k an acre and I'm a millionaire.

In theory I could run 12 bullocks on it and claim the anc and sfp but that's not my style... Yet.

Waffletraktor

OverRide wrote: »

There is another route to owning land Glanbia will happily promote a young fella into a milk flex loan but I'd be advising going to France using Dawg as a template before I'd do that if I had my life back if farming is that much of a draw

My point anyway put more succinctly after all that is the return on land from farming is low which is a grievance and will always be low because obviously if you're farming it you haven't sold it,and (2) if you have sold, the people who haven't sold it are in the boat you used be in ie cash poor and (3) if they're not,by the time there's no one left farming because they've sold it all,the price they've got is little or nothing or no bid at all

It's theoretical to that level obviously but proves the point that emphasising the value of the asset is too simplistic and unrealistic if not immediately available as an option to everyone

In your logic, only farmers are allowed purchase land? As you get fewer farms this automatically cancels out inflation and the simple acruement of wealth simply because you held onto the asset for longer. Are they making more land in western europe where people want to live by the boat load?
Like i said for land to be farmed it doesnt need to be owned by the farmer. Maybe in socialist france this strange utopia it would have worked out, though the grass is usually only greener as its fertilised with bullshyte.

OverRide

Waffletraktor wrote: »

In your logic, only farmers are allowed purchase land?

Didn't say that,it doesn't matter who the buyer is
In a theoretical world, land if it all goes up for sale,i.e the only way of eliminating the last farmer not getting a decent return,then even the sale return is poor or nothing
Ergo my point that other people's point on shur the farmer is sitting on millions worth of an asset is moot

Waffletraktor

OverRide wrote: »

Waffletraktor wrote: »

In your logic, only farmers are allowed purchase land?

Didn't say that,it doesn't matter who the buyer is
In a theoretical world, land if it all goes up for sale,i.e the only way of eliminating the last farmer not getting a decent return,then even the sale return is poor or nothing
Ergo my point that other people's point on shur the farmer is sitting on millions worth of an asset is moot

It must be nice living in your theoretical world, it suits you.

kevthegaff

Have to fence kids away from farm, stable fencing and trees,;what sheep wire should I use??

Farrell

kevthegaff wrote: »

Have to fence kids away from farm, stable fencing and trees,;what sheep wire should I use??

If sheep wire use high tensile, would they climb it?
We put up sheep wire at the back of the garden where the was an existing evergreen hedge (with holes) & a picket fence in yard.
Just remember the like to climb & don't like restrictions

blue5000

kevthegaff wrote: »

Have to fence kids away from farm, stable fencing and trees,;what sheep wire should I use??

Chicken wire, they can easily climb sheep wire.

whelan2

A good dart of an electric fence should work

White Clover

blue5000 wrote: »

Chicken wire, they can easily climb sheep wire.

Would chicken wire cut their hands? it's fairly abrasive to touch.

Farrell

whelan2 wrote: »

A good dart of an electric fence should work

And your kids love you! : -P

OverRide

Waffletraktor wrote: »

It must be nice living in your theoretical world, it suits you.

I've no interest in personal insults
My interest is in making my point and debating

davidk1394

whelan2 wrote: »

A good dart of an electric fence should work

Worked on me as a young lad

Waffletraktor

OverRide wrote: »

My interest is in making my point and debating

Good for you, though your point revolves are theoretical fantasty and doomsday scenario.

Reggie.

whelan2 wrote: »

A good dart of an electric fence should work

Beat me to it

kollegeknight

I was going to say fencer also. Would you not plant a nice hedge of nettles and thistles? Guaranteed after the first time there would be no exit.

All joking aside, you can get plastic Coated chicken wire but it costs.

kollegeknight

Novice question- what is a runner in terms of marts?

Also- I have April may bull calves. Plan to sell at either side of the Christmas- whichever is optimum. If I'm going selling April 2017- should I castrate them? I'm getting mixed answers from the neighbours.

orm0nd

kollegeknight wrote:

Novice question- what is a runner in terms of marts?

kollegeknight wrote:

Novice question- what is a runner in terms of marts?

kollegeknight wrote:

Also- I have April may bull calves. Plan to sell at either side of the Christmas- whichever is optimum. If I'm going selling April 2017- should I castrate them? I'm getting mixed answers from the neighbours.

Runner is a strong calf, for Ennis has to be under 6 months on sale date. If good quality I would leave entire If average or poor it's a matter of choice.

OverRide

Waffletraktor wrote: »

Good for you, though your point revolves are theoretical fantasty and doomsday scenario.

No
If some people sell,most remain with a poor return on their asset and their work and a reason to moan

Only way to eliminate that using supposed asset value is if all sell which would decimate asset value such that the problem of low or no return would not be fixed

Obviously the all selling scenario won't happen but it illustrates the fact that going on about lads sitting on millions is a misnomer of Rant

It's meaningless because if everyone did it,most would get no bid or little so would still have cause to say farming has caused them to be left behind

It's that simple

kollegeknight

Thanks for that. Vet doing a few jobs today, I might get him to look at them and see. Only have 11 calves and want to get rid of 5 if I can in case of a long winter.

orm0nd

kollegeknight wrote:

Thanks for that. Vet doing a few jobs today, I might get him to look at them and see. Only have 11 calves and want to get rid of 5 if I can in case of a long winter.

Are they continental.? If offspring of dairy herd definitely castrate them