Off Topic Thread 3.0

.ak

.ak wrote: »

17 still happens every night at training.

Someone got hurt from this in my year and it turned into an almost instant fisticuffs for ages afterwards. For whatever reason now if someone trips me I see red.

coco0981

https://twitter.com/AlanQuinlan1/status/833278893842903041

Not sure how I feel about this tweet. On the one hand he's right that the stigma needs to be broken, but surely the family deserves a bit time and privacy to deal with their loss in their own way

Former Former

Quinlan is completely out of line there.

I agree with what he's saying, but this is not the time and Twitter is certainly not the place.

Wang Kerr

Former Former wrote: »

Quinlan is completely out of line there.

I agree with what he's saying, but this is not the time and Twitter is certainly not the place.

This is the perfect time to raise suicide awareness, twitter is the perfect medium.... He should be commended I think.

Diabhal Beag

You can understand leaving it to the family's discretion but are the thinly veiled wordings in article's not enhancing the stigma of depression? You can immediately tell it's a suicide from the way these incidents are reported. Quinlan means well and I agree tbh.

P_1

The thing is, nothing will be done to solve the problem if people simply tip toe around the issue. People don't tip toe around heart attacks or cancers, the same approach should be taken when discussing mental health issues as is taken when discussing physical health issues.

Former Former

I agree suicide needs to be destigmatised.

Alan Quinlan has no right to tell the world that this was suicide.

swiwi_

Former Former wrote: »

Quinlan is completely out of line there.

I agree with what he's saying, but this is not the time and Twitter is certainly not the place.

Ah but twitter is always the place FF. No doubt the tweet confirming his donation to Lifeline will follow in due course. Meanwhile, vacuous tweets into the twitter sphere will have to suffice.

Would he not be better to devote one of his indo articles to the subject of post-career depression, which I'm sure is actually very prevalent, and a worthy topic of discussion...?

irishbucsfan

Extremely disappointed by that. Would not have expected that from him. But would rather need not dwell on it or give personalities like that the attention they're after.

Now should be a time for paying respects to the family and celebrating the life and career of Vickerman.

CatFromHue

I'd imagine the reason the press don't say suicide is that an inquiry into the death has to be done first.

Quinlan has jumped the gun here.

razorblunt

I think that's shocking from Quinlan, at least let the family come to terms with it. He had no right to comment on it at this stage.
Heaven forbid someone made a similar comment about Foley less than 24 hours after the news broker then.

razorblunt

razorblunt wrote: »

I think that's shocking from Quinlan, at least let the family come to terms with it. He had no right to comment on it at this stage.
Heaven forbid someone made a similar comment about Foley less than 24 hours after the news broker then.

For all Quinlan knows his family may have been supporting him through his troubles for years. His heart is in the right place, but it was a serious error of judgement.

sydthebeat

We Irish have a toxic relationship with suicide based on religious and economic reasons.

Why is it not ok to say someone died by suicide but it is ok to say they died by cancer?

Is dying by suicide something to be ashamed of?

Quinlan is right to shine a light on the stigma being hidden....

CatFromHue

There is no stigma being hidden, we just don't know for sure yet.

Remember there were the suicide rumours about Foley too in the short period after his passing.

kuang1

CatFromHue wrote: »

There is no stigma being hidden, we just don't know for sure yet.

Remember there were the suicide rumours about Foley too in the short period after his passing.

No I don't remember.

Personally I never heard or read a single rumour like that at the time. And I was keeping a sharp eye and ear out for it because I remember one of my 1st thoughts being "please don't let it be suicide."

And of course there's a stigma being hidden. How could you think there's not?

EDIT: apologies ak.

CatFromHue

kuang1 wrote: »

No I don't remember.

Personally I never heard or read a single rumour like that at the time. And I was keeping a sharp eye and ear out for it because I remember one of my 1st thoughts being "please don't let it be suicide."

And of course there's a stigma being hidden. How could you think there's not?

I read a few anyway, maybe they were people just wondering aloud. It was being mentioned though.

I think we, and especially Quinlan, should wait until we know for certain that it was suicide. Once it's been shown to be then I think we can talk about it. It doesn't feel right to be second guessing at this stage.

Buer

sydthebeat wrote: »

We have a toxic relationship with suicide based on religious and economic reasons.

Why is it not ok to say someone died by suicide but it is ok to say they died by cancer?

Is dying by suicide something to be ashamed of?

Quinlan is right to shine a light on the stigma being hidden....

Firstly, Vickerman's body will have to undergo an autopsy before anything is ruled. Quinlan should absolutely keep a lid on it until then regardless.

If he wants to start a campaign on suicide by all means do so. He'll have my 100% backing. He is way off posting this on social media for those who knew and cared for Vickerman to read. The wording is very poorly chosen.

He has no idea of the background to this situation. He doesn't need to use the death of a former player several hours ago to start this conversation. He's a regular on two separate national broadcasters and has a huge platform to do so. Utilise it.

Right sentiment, brutal judgement.

Stheno

swiwi_ wrote: »

100 days post bone marrow transplantation, and looking not too shabby. Best wishes to CL.

Excuse my ignorance, but who is this?

CatFromHue wrote: »

I read a few anyway, maybe they were people just wondering aloud. It was being mentioned though.

I think we, and especially Quinlan, should wait until we know for certain that it was suicide. Once it's been shown to be then I think we can talk about it. It doesn't feel right to be second guessing at this stage.

I remember wondering at the cause of Foleys death, but didn't see any speculation, and didn't speculate.

I agree Quinlan has jumped the gun here, there are detailed criteria used to determine if a death was a suicide or not.

Far better had he waited and written an article in a more reflective manner.

pickarooney

That's Christian Leali'ifano of the Brumbies and Australia. Plays 10 or 12 usually.

errlloyd

Stheno wrote: »

Excuse my ignorance, but who is this?

I agree Quinlan has jumped the gun here, there are detailed criteria used to determine if a death was a suicide or not.

I believe that is Christian Lealiifano - an Aussie rugby player and personal favourite of mine who got diagnosed with Leukemia not long ago. He's vowed to return to rugby, and I hope he does!

Regarding suicide: A friend of mine killed himself a few years ago, we weren't that close. I remember his funeral program and RIP.ie page encouraged donations to a charity that had nothing to do with the mental health. On the one hand it may have been his family trying to say "suicide hijacked his life it won't hijack his death" - but to me it was bizarre.

Does Quinlan have the right to "out" his death as suicide. I think so. If he had died of cancer or in a car accident there would have been no problem revealing his cause of death. I think even the fact people feel that Quinlan revealed something personal implies a bit of a stigma. But I am insensitive to death, and I am insensitive to suicide. Because I've lost 3 mates, and I am lucky I haven't lost more.

Stheno

errlloyd wrote: »

Does Quinlan have the right to "out" his death as suicide. I think so. If he had died of cancer or in a car accident there would have been no problem revealing his cause of death. I think even the fact people feel that Quinlan revealed something personal implies a bit of a stigma. But I am insensitive to death, and I am insensitive to suicide. Because I've lost 3 mates, and I am lucky I haven't lost more.

My issue with what Quinlan has done is that a lot of the time, people attempt suicide as a cry for help (my own sister did years ago)

If it goes horribly wrong, and they die, that's not classed as suicide.

Imo that's where Quinlan has jumped the gun.

Former Former

errlloyd wrote: »

Does Quinlan have the right to "out" his death as suicide. I think so. If he had died of cancer or in a car accident there would have been no problem revealing his cause of death. I think even the fact people feel that Quinlan revealed something personal implies a bit of a stigma. But I am insensitive to death, and I am insensitive to suicide. Because I've lost 3 mates, and I am lucky I haven't lost more.

No. He does not have that right. Did he even know Vickerman? Does he have any idea of what was going on in his life, what (allegedly) drove him to this? I really doubt it.

"Shining a light" or whatever you want to call it is fine - it's absolutely necessary - but it couldn't wait until the body was cold?

No, he's completely out of line. Ego trip and attention grab for himself.

razorblunt

Apparently suicide isn't reported in the media, "no suspicious circumstances" with footnotes includin helpline numbers is the way they indicate the cause, a few of the articles have followed this approach.

Delighted to see Christian Lealiifano doing well, looks to have lost alot of size, which is understandable.

Buer

errlloyd wrote: »

If he had died of cancer or in a car accident there would have been no problem revealing his cause of death.

Honestly, to me, yes there would if it wasn't confirmed. Absolutely none of his business to be revealing someone died from cancer if it was unconfirmed and the family were yet to make any official acknowledgement of it. He doesn't know the deceased. He doesn't know the circumstances.

If he wants to start a conversation on suicide, then do it. He's a public figure with a regular slot on a national radio station. Don't use the death of a specific individual whose dead a matter of hours as a reactionary vehicle to do so.

Buer

razorblunt wrote: »

Apparently suicide isn't reported in the media, "no suspicious circumstances" with footnotes includin helpline numbers is the way they indicate the cause, a few of the articles have followed this approach.
.

Standard practice in terms of journalistic standards. Firstly out of respect to the deceased's loved ones and secondly due to suicide contagion being a very real thing.

irishbucsfan

Former Former wrote: »

No. He does not have that right.

I can only assume where we missed the part where Quinlan has been moonlighting as a coroner down under.


I'm shocked that people can't imagine the multitude of potential circumstances that explain why speculation like this so early on is totally unfair on everyone involved. Even if it is suicide, is it CTE related? If it is, then we're talking about a very distinctive subset mental health issues that are very different but still a tremendously important event for the same reason as Junior Seau's death. Let's work out the importance of the event after facts are made available.

And if the family or next of kin (or even the man himself) want it dealt with privately then that is absolutely their decision to make, and not a pundit thousands of miles away.

It shouldn't be reported as suicide at all it should be depression. In the same way you wouldn't say a cancer patient died of infection you shouldn't say that a person with depression passed away due to suicide.

errlloyd

Buer wrote: »

Standard practice in terms of journalistic standards. Firstly out of respect to the deceased's loved ones and secondly due to suicide contagion being a very real thing.

Interesting about contagion.

PetKing

Former Former wrote:

No, he's completely out of line. Ego trip and attention grab for himself.

Your opinion was going well until that last line there. Agree with what he did or not, saying it was for attention or his ego is nonsense.

Stheno

PetKing wrote: »

Your opinion was going well until that last line there. Agree with what he did or not, saying it was for attention or his ego is nonsense.

Imo Quinlan has form for this, including when he was a player.

He likes to take on the role of antagonist.

In this case it's downright disrespectful.