Black Sabbath - Dublin -2017

horseburger

PTH2009 wrote: »

Poor Bill Ward only got mentioned once and it was only about 3 sentences long

No mention of the other frontmen they had

No mention at all of Ronnie James Dio, Tony Martin and Glenn Hughes?

A friend suggested to me, recently, that it was possible that when Heaven And Hell toured, in 2007 and 2008, that maybe they couldn't use the Black Sabbath name, perhaps due to some more recent legal agreement, where it might be possible, that they could only call the band Black Sabbath, if Ozzy was involved?

It might be speculation, but some legal stipulation like that would not be surprising, when it comes to things like merchandise and album releases etc.

Has anyone heard anything like that?

furiousox

Yeah I remember reading that somewhere, haven't time to find a link right now but it is true as far as I know.

Liam McPoyle

horseburger wrote: »

No mention at all of Ronnie James Dio, Tony Martin and Glenn Hughes?

A friend suggested to me, recently, that it was possible that when Heaven And Hell toured, in 2007 and 2008, that maybe they couldn't use the Black Sabbath name, perhaps due to some more recent legal agreement, where it might be possible, that they could only call the band Black Sabbath, if Ozzy was involved?

It might be speculation, but some legal stipulation like that would not be surprising, when it comes to things like merchandise and album releases etc.

Has anyone heard anything like that?

Yep.

I recently read the Sabbath bio "Symptom of the Universe" by Mick wall.

Basically after Ozzy left the band went on a downward trajectory where as Ozzys solo career skyrocketed.

He and Sharon ended up owning the name and imaging rights once they were on the bones of their arse.

All parties were quite petty at various junctures.

horseburger

Business Cat wrote: »

Yep.

I recently read the Sabbath bio "Symptom of the Universe" by Mick wall.

Basically after Ozzy left the band went on a downward trajectory where as Ozzys solo career skyrocketed.

He and Sharon ended up owning the name and imaging rights once they were on the bones of their arse.

All parties were quite petty at various junctures.

Thanks, I must read up on that.

I guess that occurred between 1996, after the Forbidden album, and the first of the reunion gigs in the late 1990s?

I've heard that Mick Wall's book on ACDC is good, I've been meaning to get it sometime.

There's a paragraph on Wikipedia saying that the band members later spoke of mixed feelings about the Forbidden album:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forbidden_(album)#Reception_and_legacy

There's an interesting quote from Tony Martin.

The Wikipedia item includes this line: "In regards to the subsequent original line-up reunion, Martin has also said Forbidden was a "filler album that got the band out of the label deal, rid of the singer, and into the reunion", but remarked that he "wasn’t privy to that information at the time".

The quote is from this question and answer session:

https://web.archive.org/web/20071221032549/http://www.tonymartin.net/qanda.html

"22) Can You please tell more about my favourite Black Sabbath's album - forbidden, something special when The Band were recording it, about the unussual way of singing and more about the lyrics, particulary about songs: Rusty Angels and The Illusion Of Power please. How was it to work with Ice T ? (Serg Blumkin)

Serg, you are a very rare breed!!! Not many people, including me, it’s well documented, not many people like this album. Y’see, It was the filler album that got the band out of the label deal, rid of the singer, and into the reunion. However I wasn’t privy to that information at the time. I will give you Lyrics and stuff on my site though".

horseburger

PTH2009 wrote: »

Poor Bill Ward only got mentioned once and it was only about 3 sentences long

No mention of the other frontmen they had

An item by radio show presenter Eddie Trunk, about Bill Ward's decision not to be involved in the recent Black Sabbath tour:

Outlaw Pete

Here's the full statement of Bill's which was partly read out on that radio show:

Hi Everyone,

I hope this day finds you all in good spirits and good health.

Again I feel in a position where I’m compelled to defend my actions in the period of 2011 up to, I suppose, today. Tony Iommi’s comments and some of Ozzy’s, remain in a place of disparaging remarks, which bring fault to my character as a person and a musician. I completely disagree with their comments. What they believe is quite opposite from my experience, especially in 2011 when no one spoke to me of being alarmed by my playing or my health. If they kept the info, which they so readily share now, to themselves in 2011, then let that be their shortcoming. How can I be judged that I could not do a tour when we were working on an album. How can I be judged in 2011 on health issues when none existed that would endanger a long term tour. They all know very clearly how well I prepare to tour. I did not know I was being judged in 2011, if that is indeed their truth.

Tony’s comment (and I’m assuming it was in reference to me touring) was, “I don’t think he quite realizes how hard it would have been on him” How can Tony say that. I know what it takes to tour. I’ve helped to set the physical and playing bar that was metal then and today. What an undermining, self-centered thing for Tony to say. What an inaccurate thing for Tony to say. I had played all the Ozzfests and Sabbath tours after the reunion. Keep in mind, they did one tour without me first, I think just to see if it could work without me. I’m sorry and mean no malice in saying this, but it was their fear, their mistrust, and their rationale that put back-up drummers on the stage at the reunion and other tours. I disliked that they did that, but understood they wanted to. I got on with my work, playing drums in Sabbath. Never once was a back-up drummer required, and no, I did not validate the fears of those who had fears.

I missed a European tour after my one and only heart attack in 1998. I can appreciate that Black Sabbath’s interests needed to be protected for the sake of future commitments to the fans, promoters, and all involved.

Ozzy said the saddest thing is that he/Bill needed to own up to that. Own up to what in 2011. What was I supposed to own up to, when I felt exhilarated, confident, and strong. Own up to, I’m not up to this, I’m sick and can’t play; those failings didn’t exist in me, they still don’t exist today. I had nothing to own up to, nothing to confess. The fact that Oz had reacted with sadness tells me he was already sold on his own judgement of me. And that is very sad to know.

Tony commented, “and it’s silly really because it was over nothing.” I have to confront that statement. I can’t let that wash into my life and my family’s life, and the lives of all those affected by an original band failure. It was something. It meant everything to thousands of people including me. It will always be something and it will always ring with truth, and actual correct accountability. By saying it was nothing, dishonours the credibility of our fans, and insults the very heart of what we all clung to, Black Sabbath.

I will have my experience in the time period of 2011 and Tony and Ozzy will have theirs. And, it’s plain to me, we’re as opposite and opposing as ever.

I won’t forget Ozzy’s last phone call of January 23rd or so 2012, asking when I would arrive in England to commence rehearsals. Why would he say that if my performance level of 2011 had already been judged.

I regret the loss of Ozzy’s friendship.

I regret the loss of Tony’s friendship.

Finally, and I’ve defended this many times, I couldn’t play one gig or a couple of gigs here or there with a back-up drummer or no back-up drummer. To do that one gig would put me in an elitist position, and I can’t do that for all the other fans who couldn’t see that one gig.

I’m honoured to have been a part of Black Sabbath, and to have played with Tony Iommi, Ozzy Osbourne, and Geezer Butler.

Long Live Black Sabbath.

Bill Ward

One thing I did notice, and not sure it means anything, but Geezer looked very uncomfortable when both Ozzy and Tony were talking about Bill. Almost rolled his eyes and took a deep intake of breath of I recall correctly. Hard to read which side of the fence he falls on with it all but it certainly looked like he was struggling with it all one way or the other.

horseburger

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Here's the full statement of Bill's which was partly read out on that radio show:





One thing I did notice, and not sure it means anything, but Geezer looked very uncomfortable when both Ozzy and Tony were talking about Bill. Almost rolled his eyes and took a deep intake of breath of I recall correctly. Hard to read which side of the fence he falls on with it all but it certainly looked like he was struggling with it all one way or the other.

thanks for posting the item, I had not seen his post.

PTH2009

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B075N32S4F/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1509534211&sr=1-1&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_FMwebp_QL65&keywords=black+sabbath&dpPl=1&dpID=61CQ8v7OJXL&ref=plSrch

This is a Bit confusing, it's the actual concert of the last performance being released on DVD/BD and not the 'The end of the end' doc movie ??

Disappointed as I wanted the doc on Blu ray

PTH2009

https://www.eaglerocklinks.com/blacksabbaththeend

released today. Its the full concert of the 'last show in Birmingham' and not the 'End Of the end' doc that was in cinemas last September.

Ordered mine but disapointed its not the Movie, the gathered in their masses concert movie is bacisally the same thing with less songs and setlist in different order. Still looking forward to watching it when it arrives