The future of James Bond

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121389051#Comment_121389051

He wore a wig in every movie. I think he was thinning in his 20s.

Brief_Lives

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121364501#Comment_121364501

here's the boards thread to it.

I thought it was absolutely rubbish

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058322084/007-road-to-a-million

Kermit.de.frog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121276736#Comment_121276736

Well, I'd certainly hope it's been resetting or Bond would have every STD known to man.

Just do a reboot in a few years imo

buried

James Bond is finished lads and lassies. It's a western cold war era propaganda outlet, back when the western establishment's had definite foreign enemies they could manipulate the general population to distrust, fear and hate, and by extension, bolster their own establishment credentials.

That's not going to work these days, seeing as how a ever increasing number of the western general public distrusts and hates their own western governmental and media establishments.

That's why you have Brian Cox hosting a James bond themed "I'm a MI6 Agent, Get Me Out of Here" game style show for winning prize money, when he'd make a great "M" in an old school film production, productions that no longer work on a current cultural level.

That's what this craic has become reduced to.

saabsaab

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121393150#Comment_121393150

'back when the western establishment's had definite foreign enemies'

I doubt that's changed.

pixelburp

Yeah, for one the Russians as default bad guys has definitely become a valid choice once more; I think as well the problem with Bond is as Q kinda noted with Skyfall. Bond is an analog solution in a digital world, his skillset isn't that amazing in a culture where spying is something done on an innocuous laptop.

buried

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121393270#Comment_121393270

But for the general film watching going populace, the ordinary citizen, they don't view the hostility from foreign entities as much as they did back in the 60's -mid 80's

LambshankRedemption

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121393287#Comment_121393287

Yes, but also noted in Skyfall, sometimes a trigger needs to be pulled, or not pulled.

Decuc500

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121390760#Comment_121390760

No no no. Ridiculous stuff and unrealistic. Let's get serious about Bond for 5 minutes here.

I mean, come on folks, we've already discussed this. Jada Pinkett Smith? No bald Bond!!!😀

Sleepy

Don't feed the troll ;)

LambshankRedemption

People seem to forget the Bond character is based on a series of books. He has a back story and a history. He's not English, he is Scottish. His mother was French-Swiss.

Some people seem to think he is Dr Who and the next incarnation can be anything.

johnny_ultimate

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121395136#Comment_121395136

The James Bond films abandoned any resemblance to the original books decades ago, in terms of tone, setting, characters, chronology and much more. I mean, we’re talking a character that has already existed in a perpetual middle age for going on six decades now, from the Cold War to the digital age. The series has been extremely adaptable and fluid over the years, for better and worse, with little thought towards consistency between entries (with the exception of the Craig era, which had more of an ongoing, multi-film story). The idea that suddenly certain minor, largely irrelevant background details (outside of Skyfall, the character’s origins barely factor in to the films) are sacrosanct seems very silly to me in the context of a series that has gone all sorts of mad, conflicting directions in the past.

eightieschewbaccy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121395136#Comment_121395136

I'm not really sure if Bond not being white or Scottish would impact the character a whole lot. Keeping him with an accent from the UK would be only major thing to stick to. We've had works by Shakespeare effectively played with to a drastic degree and it's worked, so Bond is far from a sacred text in terms of what you can do with it.

LambshankRedemption

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121395197#Comment_121395197

I never said the movies resembled the books. Far from it. You Only Live Twice is almost a mirror image of the book. That is often the case in other franchises where the movie is significantly different to the source material.

Yes the movies have changed with the times going from Cold War era to the digital age, but the character is still based on the character from the books.

If someone wants a spy movie about a black lesbian from Wales, then go and write it. Don't go and retcon an established character.

eightieschewbaccy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121395260#Comment_121395260

I can't see a woman playing Bond realistically however a non white Bond is very much so a possibility. And I'm not sure if the majority of people will care and has the potential to shake things up if approached in right way. Plus Barbara Broccoli is fine with it which would be the deciding factor.

LambshankRedemption

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121395413#Comment_121395413

Skin color is no problem for me. I would quite like to see Idris Elba in the role, though I've read in places he is considered too old.

johnny_ultimate

There has been no credible reports that Bond will become a ‘black lesbian’ or anything of the sort. I see no reason a black male actor couldn’t comfortably fit into the broad character type seen in all films thus far.

That said, since Ana de Armas completely stole the show in No Time To Die, I’d have zero objections to a 007 or indeed 00*insertnumberhere* film featuring her character - although I’d say her upcoming John Wick spin-off might cancel that one out.

eightieschewbaccy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121395438#Comment_121395438

Yep, using the 007 as a code name or diverging into movies with secondary characters has potential. Also think that world of chauvinism with a female spy gives fresh angles even in terms of the social angle etc. Even race has that challenge, particularly if you had it set a few decades back.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121395438#Comment_121395438

Did she? Or did her dress, cos I've seen this said and when I finally saw her big scene was a bit underwhelmed - she was no John Wick, or the next Charlize IMO.

As to the black lesbian stuff, it's tedious at this stage and the reserve of wannabe comedians or those looking to be upset about something.

silverharp

No young person cares about Bond, as kids he was a God among movie characters, each iteration will have diluted interest as I see it, but at the same time you cant trim the budget on these films

scottser

Fleming wrote Bond as a public-school educated, racist, misogynistic Englishman. As much as he is an anachronism, there's still a draw to the character and some still identify strongly with the archetype. There'll always be a market for Bond but I'd be wary of the success of a 'woke' version - you can't really shove that toothpaste back into its tube.

pixelburp

People still identify with a racist, misogynist stereotype? I mean, I guess? No Time to Die did $770 million worldwide so not sure it's as complex as that beyond "James Bond is a bankable worldwide IP"

Agent Coulson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121395777#Comment_121395777

Just look at the world of politics and it shows you plenty still do indentify with racist, misogynist stereotypes in great numbers all over the world.

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121395260#Comment_121395260

The personality of Bond is essentially retconned every single time they get a new actor in. Daniel Craig has nothing to do with Roger Moore and Moore had little to do with Connery, etc. They only thing that connects them is that they are Caucasian blokes. But the series (if it can be called that) has been rebooted continually since 1969.

In saying that, however, I just see absolutely no need to change Bond from being a white British man. And for those clamouring for a "black Bond", I have to ask why? Why is that so, so, important? The same question must be asked of those who are wanting to see the "female Bond". Why?

Not that I have anything against the idea of a black or female superspy, or even a combination of both, in some silly knockabout romp. But, as said, there is absolutely zero need to change the basic character's immutable characteristics in Bond movies. Especially when it's just for the sake of it.

What Bond needs, more than anything else, is some interesting ideas. Not a lazy race or sex swap.

Oscar_Madison

Didn’t like the “killing off” in the last episode - really meh feeling coming out of the cinema - I’ll go to the next one whenever it is but I think the magic ended that day and whatever they’re about to do it will “feel” different and just won’t have that continuity - I’ll treat it as a whole new franchise is probably the best way- like Star Trek Vs Star Trek Next Generation and whatever came after that like deep space 9 etc - both were good but both were different to each other .

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121395896#Comment_121395896

I think it's more the reverse direction to consider: Idris Elba has often been cited as a good potential Bond, but would be disqualified if we kept to the caucasian element of casting. And yeah: any time I've seen the guy he has exuded that magnetism and masculinity that'd make him a great Bond. He has certainly rocked the men's grooming angle of advertising well enough to hint he'd be a good Bond. But keeping to the traditional racial aspect seems limiting in a case like this where there's a good candidate already out there. Now, the fact he's arguably too old is another matter. Yeah, there are think pieces that chatter about how "important" it would be and not even gonna touch that, but in terms of the nuts & bolts of Hollywood? Elba would be a good James Bond (IMO etc.).

As to the female Bond? I have honestly never read any serious, sober assessment that has reckoned Bond be female. Nothing beyond tongue-in-cheek, or blatant attempts to concern troll.

johnny_ultimate

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121395896#Comment_121395896

There’s a difference between actively ‘clamouring for’ and thinking ‘eh, why not’. If they go through the casting process and find the most interesting or effective actor is a non-white one, why wouldn’t they go for it? Equally, if the most interesting or effective actor is a white one, absolutely go with him! The character and series has been adaptable enough that it could easily handle such a change - hell, the next Bond has to deal with the fact the character died in the last film! Can’t get more rebooty than that, regardless of casting. I don’t think James Bond’s whiteness is such a defining, definitive and sacrosanct characteristic that it should preclude talented potential actors from the mix. Casting a non-white actor just for the sake of it is one thing - casting one because they were genuinely the most compelling choice is another thing altogether.

Honestly, though, I’d much prefer a focus on a change of tone. If the de Armas section of NTTD showed anything, it’s that the Craig years lacked a certain sense of fun that has long been associated with the series. Something that tweaks the tone away from the often po-faced seriousness of the last few films would be a very welcome change of pace for me, while avoiding the absurdities of the Bond nadirs like Die Another Day.

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121395930#Comment_121395930

Elba's a fine actor, but why Bond? Why not some other new super spy character? Why does it have to be James Bond? That's the thing I just don't get. It's not like there's a shortage of white British actors out there that they have to go to Idris and ask him to give them a dig out. So it ends up being, when all things are considered, just a lazy, cynical and no doubt smug race switcheroo that some studio exec can dine out on for the next few years.

And while Elba is grand, he's now just too old. In the unlikely event that they started shooting next year he'd be 52. In barely three movies he'd be pushing 60. You're into Roger Moore nonsense there and even he thought the last couple of movies he did were silly because of his age.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121396044#Comment_121396044

If I had to guess it's probably the sex appeal that it comes down to. James Bond is supposed to be a handsome & desirable man, a bit of a snack even and I suppose of the various A List celebrities out there, few are:

1. English,
2. Not pensioners,
3. But also not < 30 twinks,
4. Are attractive to the extent of having "sexiness".

So people land at Idris Elba, perhaps betraying a bit of thirst in as much as it's a campaign of inclusivity. Outside of him I'm not sure who's out there that might check those boxes, and Elba's such a busy man he has had a tonne of Bond adjacent roles since his time on The Wire.

As to laziness, well that's a funny angle too 'cos when you think about it: when has the Bond franchise not been a bit lazy & cynical? Pick an era and half the Bond films in it were chasing trends or genres, no matter how ill fitting they ended up (why hello Live and Let Die & Moonraker!). Not so much the Connery era to be fair but you definitely saw it pick up a good bit from Moore onwards. And even the much celebrated Casino Royale was quite naked in its absorption of the Jason Bourne trend of handheld fistfights. So a race swap seems entirely on brand, really, IMO.

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121396035#Comment_121396035

If you're answering "why?" with "why not?", then there's really nowhere to go with that and it doesn't eliminate the original question. But I agree, if during auditions a 4ft Asian absolutely knocks it out of the park, then yeah go with that actor.

I haven't seen 'No Time to Die', so I don't know how Bond dies. Or even if he's truly dead. Maybe he can do an Emperor Palpatine and somehow return? 😄 In any case I thought and still think that killing off the character was a really dumb move just on all the issues it creates.

For the record, I'm not even a Bond fan even if I've seen every movie at least once (bar 'No Time to Die'). However, I think Craig's Bond was the best iteration of the character yet, although the films became progressively worse with some really bad ideas to boot. Hello Blofeld. But I genuinely liked Craig's more serious take.

Although, if I'm going to sit down to a spy film, I'd be more inclined toward something like 'The Spy Who Came in from the Cold' or 'Smiley's People' than, say, 'The World is Not Enough'.