Burning of EU flag outside Cork City Hall tomorrow, Monday 9th May at 10am

Avatar MIA

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Compared to most countries in Europe even countries like Croatia and Ukraine, Ireland has terrible equality record

... but the Education, Health and Equality systems in this country are no where near fair.

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

That's not what I said or want.

You asked for reason why Education has not Equality and I have given you a answer.

You did. But, I was hoping for terrible.

Avatar MIA

12Phase wrote: »

I know people who have opted not to relocate to Ireland from California (at mid/senior level in IT companies) because of lack of secular public schools here. Or a perception that they'd be discriminated against for being non-catholic.

Some Americans were also quoted not wanting to holiday in Ireland because of the potential of terrorist attack (during the troubles in Northern Ireland) - the chances of which were practically non-existent.

Ireland has one of the largest US FDI in the world and greater than all the BRIC country's put together. It doesn't seem that big a problem.

Butters1979

@ the_kew_tour
If it's not too nosey, where are you from ?

um7y1h83ge06nx

Lads I've heard that North Korea is a great place, very different to the EU and not controlled by the military industrial complex/capitalism/Bilderburg Group.

Maybe ye should head over to check it out and let us know how you are getting on?

Sound.

The_Kew_Tour

Butters1979 wrote: »

@ the_kew_tour
If it's not too nosey, where are you from ?

North Cork originally, living in City at minute

The_Kew_Tour

Boston Fast Grits wrote: »

Lads I've heard that North Korea is a great place, very different to the EU and not controlled by the military industrial complex/capitalism/Bilderburg Group.

Maybe ye should head over to check it out and let us know how you are getting on?

Sound.

Been to North Korea and it's not as bad as many say.

Now it's a shot hole and in wrong side you are goosed but far worse places, many in Asia and Africa

Problem with NK is that they are brain washed into thinking they are superior to you and they seem to have this air of sympathy for you.

Sadly it's other way around

12Phase

Avatar MIA wrote: »

Some Americans were also quoted not wanting to holiday in Ireland because of the potential of terrorist attack (during the troubles in Northern Ireland) - the chances of whiny were practically non-existent.

Ireland has one of the largest US FDI in the world and greater than all the BRIC country's put together. It doesn't seem that big a problem.

Yeah but the lack of access to secular schools *is* an actual issue whereas terrorism wasn't and isn't.. Pretending it isn't doesn't make it go away.

I'm talking about people who did a lot of research beforehand. They're not just random tourists.

The school options were extremely limited if you were looking for a secular school and the private ones are even more overtly religious than the public ones if you want to go that route.

Most of the developed world doesn't operate with 96% religious schools. I know my own niece is having severe issues getting a primary place because she's non religious. Weirdly enough, they'll prioritise other religions ahead of her in some schools but a non religious Irish kid is bottom of the list, I assume to shun the parents for not being "good Irish Catholics".

Harika

Avatar MIA wrote: »

BTW, anyone know if they burnt the flag, and if all 18 of them turned up?

Looks like all 18 were there.

Took them some time, with fuel, to burn the flag. :rolleyes:

12Phase

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Been to North Korea and it's not as bad as many say.

Now it's a shot hole and in wrong side you ate goosed but far worse places, many in Asia and Africa

Problem with NK is that they are brain washed into thinking they are superior to you and they seem to have this air of sympathy for you.

Sadly it's other way around

It would also depend on which bit of North Korea. The accounts of most people who've escaped the extremes of the place would tend to indicate Pyongyang and a few cities are bubbles and dire poverty and serious problems exist out of sight.

12Phase

Harika wrote: »

Looks like all 18 were there.

Took them some time, with fuel, to burn the flag. :rolleyes:

I was right about the flame retardant fabric lol.
Even with all the lighter fluid it wasn't very flammable

Avatar MIA

Harika wrote: »

Looks like all 18 were there.

Took them some time, with fuel, to burn the flag. :rolleyes:

"They've taken our fish"

The [EMAIL="b@stards"]b@stards[/EMAIL]!

I think the guy trying to light the flag is evidence enough that we may have problems with our education system. :pac:

Worst flag burning EVER.

The_Kew_Tour

12Phase wrote: »

It would also depend on which bit of North Korea. The account of most people who've escapes the extremes of the place would tend to indicate Pyongyang and a few cities are bubbles and dire poverty and serious problems exist out of sight.

Just like Ireland so

But you're right, again though from what I know is that 99% of the people can live a life there once they obey and follow their leader( who I hate BTW and not saying it's right)

12Phase

I encountered some North Korean refugees in China. It sounds about as 'normal' as visiting Berlin in the 1930s.
There's most definitely a massive humanitarian issue hidden away.

I mean you really can't visit North Korea. You get a highly controlled display of what the illustrious leader wants you to see.

It's a petty bad state of affairs when you've got people fleeing TO China for freedom ...

12Phase

Just reading through that group's manifesto. It's claiming not to be a party, yet it's behaving rather like one.

Also, people's willingness to participate in democracy has its limits. That's why representative, rather than direct, democracy tends to be the dominant model internationally.

If you consider the practicalities of it. Who the hell would have time to participate in absolutely every government decision?

We elect people who we have a fair idea will behave in a particular way to represent us and basically outsource governance to them.

When you consider the lack of interest in duller referenda, I can't really see the average punter sitting down every night to spend hours going through the minutia of every aspect of governance.

Politicians and parties arise because people need to be able to be represented and because someone needs to do that job as their full time thing. They gain specialist knowledge and skills to do that.

You're typically voting for a party or individual that you've confidence in to represent you and that is closest to how how you see the world. It means you can get on with something else while they take care of the governance and policy issue.

You need more transparency, of course, and referenda on certain key issues but absolute direct democracy would get very, very messy.

Avatar MIA

12Phase wrote: »

Just reading through that group's manifesto...

The regalia of the guys holding the tricolours and the sunglasses on a couple of the other lads tells you all you need to know.

NewsMeQuick

@dobz95 Wow, I'm really surprised there's this much anti-EU sentiment. I just don't see it in mainstream Irish media. I haven't yet met anyone in Ireland critical of the EU, outside of the Socialist party.

Ten years ago, I thought the EU couldn't do anything wrong. Since then, it's a completely different issue.

I have many criticisms and oppositions and yes I think Ireland would be better outside of the EU. But, I won't burn flags.

Another thing is, I'm surprised, Ireland usually waits 10 years to follow what Britain did anyway. This is speedy.

Since I was little, my nationality, heritage and cultural interests were far broader than this island. So, I'm not totally distraught with its choices. It's said that countries have to fight for their own democracy, it cannot be grown or transplanted by outside nations. In the same way. Another point is that 'people get the governments they deserve'. In both cases, I think this is true for Ireland.

p.s. as this thread has shown, and often a Boards problem, this kind of topic is rarely debated with any intelligence over the internet. Sadly.

Avatar MIA

NewsMeQuick wrote: »

p.s. as this thread has shown, and often a Boards problem, this kind of topic is rarely debated with any intelligence over the internet. Sadly.

You could always be the first. Care to give it a try?

Butters1979

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

North Cork originally, living in City at minute

Ok it just sounded like your weren't originally from Ireland. Not that it would normally matter, but in the context of the discussion it would have been a bit ironic if you were another EU national living here. I would not like to be ad hominem but you haven't really presented an argument to attack instead.
I assume the constant spelling, punctuation and grammar mistakes are the fault of our 'unfair' school system so?

Anyway **** off to Kazakhstan or somewhere like it.

Avatar MIA

Butters1979 wrote: »

Anyway **** off to Kazakhstan or somewhere like it.

That escalated quickly. :eek:

12Phase

NewsMeQuick wrote: »

@dobz95 Wow, I'm really surprised there's this much anti-EU sentiment. I just don't see it in mainstream Irish media. I haven't yet met anyone in Ireland critical of the EU, outside of the Socialist party.

Ten years ago, I thought the EU couldn't do anything wrong. Since then, it's a completely different issue.

I have many criticisms and oppositions and yes I think Ireland would be better outside of the EU. But, I won't burn flags.

Another thing is, I'm surprised, Ireland usually waits 10 years to follow what Britain did anyway. This is speedy.

Since I was little, my nationality, heritage and cultural interests were far broader than this island. So, I'm not totally distraught with its choices. It's said that countries have to fight for their own democracy, it cannot be grown or transplanted by outside nations. In the same way. Another point is that 'people get the governments they deserve'. In both cases, I think this is true for Ireland.

p.s. as this thread has shown, and often a Boards problem, this kind of topic is rarely debated with any intelligence over the internet. Sadly.

Tbh, I would think it's just a general pan EU thing and 18 people, a website and a flag and some lighter fluid isn't quite a mass movement.

There are pretty intelligent discussion about this topic all the time. I wouldn't regard burning the EU flag much of a debating technique though!

Doylers

Can we all agree 'Irexit' sounds sh1t

TireeTerror

Muff Richardson wrote: »

Well traveled then

oooh look, its the audience members from Jeremy Kyle out for a fag at lunchtime.

Butters1979

Avatar MIA wrote: »

That escalated quickly. :eek:

Yeah I'm sorry. I don't mind difference of opinion, debate and good argument. In fact I love it. It's what a strong society is built on. Pluralism.
I just despise baseless opinion. It's not even opinion, it's belief without evidence. People like that are toxic to democracy and society in general. It's completely stupid. People like that going around deciding they want to be against something and they feel like heroes because of it. They go around saying whatever they want to justify it. And then more people like that regurgitate the lie and it goes on and on.
"1 in 5" children go to bed hungry? Really? I'd be shocked if that were true, and then when asked to back it up he just linked to an article where someone else didn't back it up. Sorry but when asked to show a source for your stupid statement, someone else making a stupid statement with no facts doesn't count as a source. You want to prove me wrong ?I'll revel in it.
The fact that he consistently said Hungary instead of hungry makes me think he's lying and actually not from Ireland at all. Which is weird and in most arguments is not and should not be an issue, but you can see why in this context it actually is.
The alternative is he genuinely thinks is spelt Hungary. I don't know what's worse.

Avatar MIA

He's as Irish as living with your ma into your thirties.

But he's also a Man U fan, so might explain things. :pac:

The_Kew_Tour

Butters1979 wrote: »

Ok it just sounded like your weren't originally from Ireland. Not that it would normally matter, but in the context of the discussion it would have been a bit ironic if you were another EU national living here. I would not like to be ad hominem but you haven't really presented an argument to attack instead.
I assume the constant spelling, punctuation and grammar mistakes are the fault of our 'unfair' school system so?

Anyway **** off to Kazakhstan or somewhere like it.

It's "you weren't".

Also you forgot a couple of commas

And can I say it's a beautiful country. One of my closest friends from Dublin is originally from there.

Want to make fool of yourself anymore?

I love the whole " I'm not a racist, but I am a racist" vibe you give too.

The_Kew_Tour

Butters1979 wrote: »

Yeah I'm sorry. I don't mind difference of opinion, debate and good argument. In fact I love it. It's what a strong society is built on. Pluralism.
I just despise baseless opinion. It's not even opinion, it's belief without evidence. People like that are toxic to democracy and society in general. It's completely stupid. People like that going around deciding they want to be against something and they feel like heroes because of it. They go around saying whatever they want to justify it. And then more people like that regurgitate the lie and it goes on and on.
"1 in 5" children go to bed hungry? Really? I'd be shocked if that were true, and then when asked to back it up he just linked to an article where someone else didn't back it up. Sorry but when asked to show a source for your stupid statement, someone else making a stupid statement with no facts doesn't count as a source. You want to prove me wrong ?I'll revel in it.
The fact that he consistently said Hungary instead of hungry makes me think he's lying and actually not from Ireland at all. Which is weird and in most arguments is not and should not be an issue, but you can see why in this context it actually is.
The alternative is he genuinely thinks is spelt Hungary. I don't know what's worse.

Pot
Kettle
Black

Pawwed Rig

12Phase wrote: »

I was right about the flame retardant fabric lol.
Even with all the lighter fluid it wasn't very flammable

Why are they all wearing high viz?

The_Kew_Tour

http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/one-in-five-children-are-going-to-school-or-their-bed-hungry-29772602.html

Here is another 1 in 5 study.

Let the bashing begin

Avatar MIA

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/one-in-five-children-are-going-to-school-or-their-bed-hungry-29772602.html

Here is another 1 in 5 study.

Let the bashing begin

Pretty sure that's the same study, from the same source anyway.

The_Kew_Tour

Avatar MIA wrote: »

Pretty sure that's the same study, from the same source anyway.

No

One is from November 2013, the other is April 2015.

Google is your friend.

Don't want put thread out of debate, just seems like people seem be saying figures are wrong, but Google show least 4 studies, from different periods.

Anyway let that be last of that. If people want turn blind eye that says more about them.