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The New Ireland
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Lots of nationalities have emigrated throughout the world. Canada is full of Chinese and Punjabis, US has a huge American-Italian population, Jewish etc. but we do pack a bigger punch for such a small nation. Sure doesn't everyone want to be Irish on St. Patrick's Day.
I think why everyone wants to be Irish on Paddys day is because the notion of Irishness can be boiled down, in many people's minds, to an association with partying hard.
If you take somewhere like The States as an example: Irishness is an ethnic hertiage that's kind of guilt-free and mainstream enough to not be off putting to people. If people talked about their WASP roots or White European roots, there'd be unmistakable connotations of racism, cultural superiority etc,etc. But Irishness, as a ethnic identiy, has a somewhat unique spot in notions of the American cultural melting pot: it's a large and old enough tradition to be widespread and feel well established in the culture of the country. But, "Irishness" can sometimes go no deeper than a romanticised view of the old country and a celebration of drinking. We have a harmless, fun-loving and feckless reputation and our beleaguered historical record, as a people, means people can join in the craicery on Paddys Day and not feel they've put anyone's nose out of joint. I don't think in a lot of cases people are celebrating Irishness as such. At least, not half as much as they are celebrating having fun0 -
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bodhrandude wrote: »I've been caught out a few times needing to pee coming from a pub, but I do it discreetly, either up a dark alley or if there is a clump of trees somewhere that would hide me from view. OP what your feelings about that, sometimes you can get caught out at the most inexplicable times and be miles from a loo, would you actually just piss in your pants then.
Note what I highlighted in bold...see how what you said contrasts with what ive stated...I believe i detect consideration for others here, right?but I would take from what you've said about avoiding alcohol, that you go out of your way to avoid it? That you will not place yourself anywhere near potentially imbibed alcohol? That to me seems like a very puritanical attitude towards drink - and it implies that you really can not stand it. It makes me question how unbiased you are - maybe the carry on you initally described wasn’t wholly as bad as you thought it was?. It would seem that you have an issue with booze generally - not just over consumption. I think if you’re going to start a thread primarily about Ireland’s relationship with drink, you should lay your own cards down on the table from the beginning. A rational discussion about alcohol is great, but if one side of the debate thinks partying til you puke is the way to go, and the opposing side is ultra austere - then the middle ground is going to be hard to find, the further we go on.
You also say in the another post -
Now when you say acceptance, what do you mean? Acceptance of a national drink problem? Acceptance of the severity of that problem? Or acceptance that we might all have wildly different views of what a problem actually is? Are you trying to imply there that the only way the discussion can move forward is that everyone accepts to agree with you?
My own attitude is avoid it, or anything associated with it in any and every event..
However that is a personal thing and I do not judge others for drinking..As I said, I wholeheartedly agree with anyone enjoys drinking to partake....my issue with it revolves around the public vomiting, fighting, pissing, sexual displays etc...they do that at home, and you wont hear a word from me
Acceptance is threefold in my opinion, which we will illustrate with data using a sample of the population : I.E posters in the thread
Acceptance of the problem : Most are defensive > Little to no acceptance
Acceptance of its severity : Most see it as unimportant : Further lack of acceptance
Acceptance that it needs to be actively addressed : Extremely minimal
Would you say my view of acceptance is biased? I hardly think so...like I said I believe, and infact, id encourage others to partake responsibly...My issue is my own.Thread needs more periods, at the end of sentences. From the OP....
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I added an extra few as interest, Satisfied?The first stage of alcoholism is denial, it's just Ireland has never moved onto acceptance.
+1The whole international aspect of Paddys day is just an excuse for a day of drinking. It has become similar to the 5th of May in the USA at least.
We are seen as a drinking/party country so our national day is a drinking/party day.
This, Pretty muchI think why everyone wants to be Irish on Paddys day is because the notion of Irishness can be boiled down, in many people's minds, to an association with partying hard.
If you take somewhere like The States as an example: Irishness is an ethnic hertiage that's kind of guilt-free and mainstream enough to not be off putting to people. If people talked about their WASP roots or White European roots, there'd be unmistakable connotations of racism, cultural superiority etc,etc. But Irishness, as a ethnic identiy, has a somewhat unique spot in notions of the American cultural melting pot: it's a large and old enough tradition to be widespread and feel well established in the culture of the country. But, "Irishness" can sometimes go no deeper than a romanticised view of the old country and a celebration of drinking. We have a harmless, fun-loving and feckless reputation and our beleaguered historical record, as a people, means people can join in the craicery on Paddys Day and not feel they've put anyone's nose out of joint. I don't think in a lot of cases people are celebrating Irishness as such. At least, not half as much as they are celebrating having fun
Wow, this sums it up quite well....well doneNeil Fit Headphones wrote: »And we proud of it too!!
And yet, you dont see the problem....Interesting how people wear that reputation of shame as a badge of honour isnt it?0 -
My own attitude is avoid it, or anything associated with it in any and every event..
However that is a personal thing and I do not judge others for drinking..As I said, I wholeheartedly agree with anyone enjoys drinking to partake....my issue with it revolves around the public vomiting, fighting, pissing, sexual displays etc...they do that at home, and you wont hear a word from me
Acceptance is threefold in my opinion, which we will illustrate with data using a sample of the population : I.E posters in the thread
Acceptance of the problem : Most are defensive > Little to no acceptance
Acceptance of its severity : Most see it as unimportant : Further lack of acceptance
Acceptance that it needs to be actively addressed : Extremely minimal
Would you say my view of acceptance is biased? I hardly think so...like I said I believe, and infact, id encourage others to partake responsibly...My issue is my own.
I wouldn't take a thread on Boards.ie as cast-iron evidence that there's a general lack of acceptance, amongst the population at large, that Ireland has a drinking problem.
I presume most people here are in and about prime pubbing and clubbing age; add to that the fact it's an anonymous internet forum - there's going to be a lot of disingenuous guff posted by people who, in some cases, may not really mean what they say. I think acceptance on the thread is one thing that may not be forthcoming, but, generally, I've never heard any sentiment expressed about The Irish and their love of drink, that's somehow endorsed the notion that we should drink more than we do. I think the nation as a whole is slowly coming round to the notion that getting legless to the point of insensibility is perhaps not the best for us. But, I need to reiterate - I don't think this is new, any of it. Our relationship and behaviors concerning alcohol has been built over many generations and it will take quite some time to change.
Bias. Well, I suppose that we're all biased. I agree Ireland has a problem, a fairly chronic problem with the bottle. I don't know if it's the number one problem in Irish society; I don't know what the number one problem is Irish society is. I don't want to belabor the point, but I'm still intrigued by your own attempts to studiously avoid alcohol in your social life. It seems needlessly exhaustive - it must be close to impossible, there can be a few tipples involved in just about every social occasion. You say you don't judge, but surely, your judgment is in your behaviour?0 -
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I wouldn't take a thread on Boards.ie as cast-iron evidence that there's a general lack of acceptance, amongst the population at large, that Ireland has a drinking problem.
I presume most people here are in and about prime pubbing and clubbing age; add to that the fact it's an anonymous internet forum - there's going to be a lot of disingenuous guff posted by people who, in some cases, may not really mean what they say. I think acceptance on the thread is one thing that may not be forthcoming, but, generally, I've never heard any sentiment expressed about The Irish and their love of drink, that's somehow endorsed the notion that we should drink more than we do. I think the nation as a whole is slowly coming round to the notion that getting legless to the point of insensibility is perhaps not the best for us. But, I need to reiterate - I don't think this is new, any of it. Our relationship and behaviors concerning alcohol has been built over many generations and it will take quite some time to change.
Bias. Well, I suppose that we're all biased. I agree Ireland has a problem, a fairly chronic problem with the bottle. I don't know if it's the number one problem in Irish society; I don't know what the number one problem is Irish society is. I don't want to belabor the point, but I'm still intrigued by your own attempts to studiously avoid alcohol in your social life. It seems needlessly exhaustive - it must be close to impossible, there can be a few tipples involved in just about every social occasion. You say you don't judge, but surely, your judgment is in your behaviour?
Yes, I totally agree..but then what im suggesting is that change begins with the acceptance that things need to change.
Being totally honest, I cannot say that I have seen evidence to suggest that people wish to change the nations relationship with alcohol...However i am, and gladly at that..open to correction if you could provide examples?
My own attempts...well I wouldn't say exhaustive...I accept these occasions as no-go zones....it doesn't bother me...I dont judge others for it....i just avoid it myself and people when they are drinking....Id rather not be in that environment....the smell and taste also disgust me....plus all the actions aforementioned
So, why should I enter such a situation?? I see no merit in it...i think people should totally drink (responsibly) ....i dont think me excluding myself if judging though? if so, how?0 -
The catholic church has little influence on anyone under 50 years old,
so maybe teens now have no standards and theres no rules
if you are drinking or under the influence of drugs .
We have moved from a repressed society where religion was important
and certain standards of behavior .
maybe to a very liberal one where its like every man for himself .
You can get any drug if you have the money to pay for it .
I think america is a more religious country than ireland .
People go to mostly catholic schools cos theres not much choice
if you want to use the local schools .
I lived in a small town 20 years ago,
i never saw anyone openly urinating in the streets .
Many gardai have retired , alot of rural garda stations have closed down.
I think foreigners would say the irish people that drink drink rather alot ,
and some people just go to pubs to get drunk .
We irish tend to go to extreme,s
see in the boom, many people bought and borrowed as much as they
could ,
whether they needed it or not .
Nothing has replaced the catholic church in terms of restraint and moral
guidance .
I,m not saying the church was perfect and did not do terrible thing
in the past .
eg including trying to prevent divorce leglislation going through
I think the new ireland has one religion,
capitalism , and money .
Freedom for everyone and that also means some people will
go to extremes .0 -
Yes, I totally agree..but then what im suggesting is that change begins with the acceptance that things need to change.
Being totally honest, I cannot say that I have seen evidence to suggest that people wish to change the nations relationship with alcohol...However i am, and gladly at that..open to correction if you could provide examples?
My own attempts...well I wouldn't say exhaustive...I accept these occasions as no-go zones....it doesn't bother me...I dont judge others for it....i just avoid it myself and people when they are drinking....Id rather not be in that environment....the smell and taste also disgust me....plus all the actions aforementioned
So, why should I enter such a situation?? I see no merit in it...i think people should totally drink (responsibly) ....i dont think me excluding myself if judging though? if so, how?
Examples of a slow change in attitudes? I suppose, anecdotally, I know about half a dozen or so people who have given up drink entirely in last couple of years, for a variety of reasons - but usually they had enough of it. The recreational drinking culture in Ireland is still massive, enormous, but I feel that there might be a slight move away from it beginning, especially in the cities. I think a culture of eating out and spending your money on somewhat fancier food and drink - rather than pissing it all away entirely against the wall - is a more tangible thing for people to want to do, even compared to a few years ago. This, to me, brings us more in line with other European countries. I'm not saying that Foi-Grais is going to start becoming more popular than batter burgers with people at large, but a teeny weeny sense of boredom could be setting in with the go-out, get thrashed: rinse, repeat formula.
I feel like it's one thing to not drink, but to really abhor alcohol, to the extent that you say you do, takes a bit of an effort, surely? It's such a component of social life, everywhere - not just Ireland - that to avoid it so consistently and consciously, still makes me feel like you must harbour some judgment towards people who drink. Surely, you didn't pick up this hatred for booze out of nowhere? Speaking for myself - If I went out of my way to never be anywhere near a thing, that's extremely hard to avoid in life, and it's mere presence disgusted me - then I'd probably be extremely judgmental towards people who did enjoy it.
But, hey, I don't know what your subjective experience is.0 -
When snakes get drunk, they see me.
If I see them pee, then I flee.
In the mirror, I can't see
Which of my eyes looks dodgy.
I was repressed, pissed my pants,
Walked home alone, legs askance.
Dumped my junk in the green bin,
I'll never drink gin again.
Hey, no-one was offended,
No people were up-ended.
Some drunk guy was arrested;
Thought his friend could be bested.
© Esel
Horseman, pass by.Not your ornery onager
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The thing is, your friends were all having a great night because they were all on the same level ......... you were on the outside as you didn't partake (by your own choice) which is why you felt like the outsider ......... you were the outsider just as you would have been if you decided to sit in the foyer of a cinema whilst all your friends went in to see a movie.
I'm curious as to where you travelled to without seeing drunken antics "worse" than those witnessed here in Ireland?
You're wrong there. I've been on nights out with them where they weren't drinking as much for as long and we had a mad laugh. When I say no one was talking to each other, I mean that literally - the lads were standing beside each other almost comatose not even able to have a bit of banter between them. It wasn't a case of feeling left out (I've been there too on other occasions) Half the lads were single and would have loved to pull but didn't have it in them to even attempt to chat up a girl.
I've travelled around lots of cities in Europe, Asia and a couple in Africa. Apart from some Brits and Aussies (probably our closest brethren genetically speaking, I've rarely seen the kind of drinking that goes on here. My Canadian and American friends would see drinking as something that complements a night rather than the entire purpose of the night.0 -
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I'm extremely embarrassed by our drinking culture. We are known for it worldwide which is something not to be proud of. I think it shows we have serious underlying mental health issues in this country that need to be urgently addressed. I think it also shows a serious lack of imagination when it comes to socialising, there really is more to life than the pub and alcohol0
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As if people in India don't urinate and grope each other all over the shop :rolleyes:0
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Ok, I do think we accept we've a problem but we think it's the guy drinking 7 days a week or comatose drunk in the corner. The "sure them guidelines are a joke, I'd drink that in a night" types. #greatcraiclastnight
Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.
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As if people in India don't urinate and grope each other all over the shop :rolleyes:
Now there's a completely new and insightful point that hasn't been done to absolute death already on this thread.
It doesn't matter what India is like. We shouldn't be deciding what our standards are by comparing ourselves to the developing world - we're a modern European nation.0 -
Wow, some of the responses are truly spectacular
She was horrified that people can literally urinate, instigate sex and beat the living hell out of each other all within 500m with police present and pretty much standing idly as if its nothing...but this was not about her opinion
This was about my analysis of the situation..hence the questions I asked..If i wanted to slate India..id have started a 'how dare she thread'....rather, im interested in peoples opinions on the phenomena observed
I must admit im amused as to how people immediately began slating India..this is a discussion about Ireland..I dont live in India, therefore dont care for discussion on the topic
Yeah this defensive attitude that goes on here is very strange at times,I for one don't think the above is acceptable,Common yes but it should not be.
Is it that people in this country don't believe we can change for the better,Maybe that explains why we have such a inept political system.0 -
Ok, I do think we accept we've a problem but we think it's the guy drinking 7 days a week or comatose drunk in the corner. The "sure them guidelines are a joke, I'd drink that in a night" types. #greatcraiclastnight
Once they piss their pants and can waddle home, we don't care. If they get run over while trying to walk that six miles home, we still don't care. As long as they didn't piss on the street before hailing a taxi - because that is just not acceptable.
The pigs in the parlour might be woken up, and we can't have that.Not your ornery onager
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And yet, you dont see the problem....Interesting how people wear that reputation of shame as a badge of honour isnt it?
I think its great we have such craic, no better place in the world to go on a night out I wouldn't change a thing about Irish drinking culture, I love it.
I hate to think of a scenario where its not acceptable to go out and get drunk twice a week with your friends or go out and the beer regularly during the week etc.0 -
I am calling for a ban on these type of statements on Boards!!Legal Action wrote: »I was in Dublin for Paddy's Day and expected a pure knackerfest. Actually had a good night and was pleasantly surprised.
How dare you say you have a good night out in Ireland without every one pissing on you.
Don't you know that that driving through Ireland is like something from Taxi with Robert De Niro giving an apocalyptic commentary on what he is seeing from his car.
Notice how the same posters who are horrified by a few people pissing in the streets have now moved their agenda on to the default "Ireland is crap" in general stage now.0 -
There are also those so insecure in their nationality they can't take any criticism of Ireland at all.
Odd thing is these types are oft extremely critical of Government in general, cognitive dissonance right there.Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.
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The catholic church has little influence on anyone under 50 years old,
so maybe teens now have no standards and theres no rules......
to be honest I think it's a bit narrow minded to think that Catholicism/Christianity is our great saviour, and the country is going down the pan because people don't go to mass.
I can be a good person without any religious beliefs, as can anyone else.0 -
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Neil Fit Headphones wrote: »I think its great we have such craic, no better place in the world to go on a night out I wouldn't change a thing about Irish drinking culture, I love it.
I hate to think of a scenario where its not acceptable to go out and get drunk twice a week with your friends or go out and the beer regularly during the week etc.
"I've had my fun, and that's all that matters."
By all means, go out and have fun. Have a few drinks, get drunk. That's all absolutely grand.
Pissing on a shop front is not.0 -
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There are those who are so insecure in their nationality that all they do is exaggerate to the extreme any faults we may have to carry on the self hating "Ireland is crap" attitude.There are also those so insecure in their nationality they can't take any criticism of Ireland at all.
Odd thing is these types are oft extremely critical of Government in general, cognitive dissonance right there.
Odd that Ireland is still a great country to live in because of the Irish people despite our underperforming government's throughout the years but nice way to try and drag it off topic to get your little personal dig in.
Odd thing is these self hating types are oft found among Board moderators in general.0 -
Don't ever change tom.
Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.
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No I wont K9,at least quote my post when you are trying to get your personal off topic dig in about my view of FF/FG.Don't ever change tom.
But then I suppose it would not have been the sly little personal dig it was meant to be if you did.
Good to see you pursuing me I guess or maybe not,I seem to have some sort of cognitive dissonance right there huh?0
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