Tesla Model 3

The Rooster

The Rooster wrote: »

Ha!

So would it be hospitals or schools you'd cut back on to abolish VAT?

Don't be fooled, most of the money is going to pay a bank bailout, not into schools, hospitals or paying the "poor teachers"

I'm all for a fair system , 23% VAT and VRT is pure extortion nothing more.

Indricotherium

Indricotherium wrote: »

People driving cars particularly cars directly powered by fossil fuels costs the state a fortune, so it is only right that they are taxed.

Hardly a rip off.

It's not as if you are getting nothing back for it.

What ?

Indricotherium

[Deleted User] wrote: »

What ?

Roads for a start.

They cost a fortune.

The damage to public health caused by diesel transport costs a fortune to mitigate, there's another.

Indricotherium

Indricotherium wrote: »

Roads for a start.

They cost a fortune.

The damage to public health caused by diesel transport costs a fortune to mitigate, there's another.

You think the Government charge tax because of pollution ? the Irish Government continues to allow solid fuels to be burned as a form of heating, far worse than a modern Diesel . And a serious problem in rural villages and larger towns where they burn other solid fuels instead of smokey coal such as briquettes and turf. I see it in my own rural estate. The clouds of coal smoke is disgraceful.

Anyway, petrol and diesel is taxed enough but perhaps they can increase motor tax on ICE's. remember there are not nearly enough EV models to choose because car manufacturers continue to drag their heals and avoid making them so more tax on ICE's won't work.

What the Government could do is offer a good scrappage fro 10+ year old diesels and increase taxes like they did in france with great success.

Irish EV sales are extremely poor mainly because of Irish misconceptions of electrics and general lack of interest.

eeguy

Deleted User wrote: »

Irish EV sales are extremely poor mainly because of Irish misconceptions of electrics and general lack of interest.

I'd say its because although an EV will work 9 out of 10 times, that one time is whats putting people off them.

Give them another 2 or 3 years and sales will take off.

Water John

Not to get side tracked but facts are important in any discussion. Ask Donald Trump.
Just pointing out the bank debt added about 20/30% to the overall debt caused by the economic downturn. Its not the majority of it, by any means.

Now back to Tesla.
Even if there are inevitable delays. Delighted that everything adds to the momentum of EVs.

The Rooster

Water John wrote: »

Not to get side tracked but facts are important in any discussion. Ask Donald Trump.
Just pointing out the bank debt added about 20/30% to the overall debt caused by the economic downturn. Its not the majority of it, by any means.

Now back to Tesla.
Even if there are inevitable delays. Delighted that everything adds to the momentum of EVs.

Indeed. VAT went up from 21% to 23% due to the economic downturn. So 20%/30% of that increase can be blamed on the banks. So less than 1% VAT is due to the bank bailout - but yeah people still fall for the "Don't be fooled, most of the money is going to pay a bank bailout" lines. It's no wonder the loony left and loony rights are getting so many votes in this and other countries.

VRT is tough in this country alright, as I said (particularly painful when importing a car I find cause you have to write a separate cheque!).
At least there's a grant for new EVs bought here to alleviate some of this.

unkel

The Rooster wrote: »

VRT is tough in this country alright, as I said (particularly painful when importing a car

Zero VRT for importing most EVs

Scottie99

unkel wrote: »

Zero VRT for importing most EVs

I think it's up to 35k at 0% then 14% thereafter

unkel

Aye it's a €5k discount on the VRT so cars up to about €35k are exempt. I don't think many second handEVs over €35k were ever imported into this country though

zilog_jones

7 used Teslas imported last year

unkel

2015 Model S around £50k - you're giving me ideas

With an OMSP of say €60k the VRT would be €8,400 (14%) minus €5k discount so just €3,400

eeguy

zilog_jones wrote: »

7 used Teslas imported last year

I saw a Model S charging just off Pearse St a few weeks back.

cros13

unkel wrote: »

2015 Model S around £50k - you're giving me ideas

With an OMSP of say €60k the VRT would be €8,400 (14%) minus €5k discount so just €3,400

Two of the multiple-brand SIMI dealers put up old 2012 85Ds for over €100k for the express purpose of goosing the OMSP. They were at more than double the price on the open market in the UK.

We'll have to wait until Tesla themselves bring in certified pre-owned to get the OMSP down.

unkel

Do you know (maybe from people who cleared a model S) what the OMSP is per year on a base model?

cros13

unkel wrote: »

Do you know (maybe from people who cleared a model S) what the OMSP is per year on a base model?

I don't know anyone who brought in a base model. I do know someone who brought in a P90DL before Tesla announced local pricing that got assessed OMSP of €165k.

unkel

Tesla did announce local pricing? Actual Irish prices? Of new and second hand cars?

Sabre Man

unkel wrote: »

Tesla did announce local pricing? Actual Irish prices? Of new and second hand cars?

You can configure new cars and see the Irish prices in the design studio:
https://www.tesla.com/en_IE/models/design

unkel

€82k new, so they couldn't possibly put up an OMSP of more than €55k or €60k for a '15? Even at that, it would probably be wiser to buy new. Although the new ones do not come with free charging for life, I believe? When was the cut-off point and how would you know if your car qualifies? Not a huge issue in Ireland, but if you do a lot of driving in continental Europe it would make a big difference.

Sabre Man

Sabre Man wrote: »

You can configure new cars and see the Irish prices in the design studio:
https://www.tesla.com/en_IE/models/design

Some mental prices there, Christ ! mad !

cros13

unkel wrote: »

€82k new, so they couldn't possibly put up an OMSP of more than €55k or €60k for a '15? Even at that, it would probably be wiser to buy new.

I'd be wary of Revenue over-estimating the OMSP and having to put the money down while appealing. Things will be a lot more certain once Tesla sells a few certified used models here.

unkel wrote: »

Although the new ones do not come with free charging for life, I believe? When was the cut-off point and how would you know if your car qualifies?

Orders placed by January 15th. At least on Tesla's CPO whether a car has free lifetime charging or not will be on the listing.

There should be 0 VRT on all electrics, they need to do as much as possible to get as many electrics on the road as they can.

serfboard

Deleted User wrote: »

There should be 0 VRT on all electrics, they need to do as much as possible to get as many electrics on the road as they can.

Whatever about from just the climate change aspect, for a country that has no oil of its own, but which does have the capacity to generate renewable energy, you would think this would be a no-brainer.

Well if we electrify our transport then we'd find out how difficult it would be for renewable energy to meet a fraction of what it meets today. People really underestimate the Kwh's in petrol and diesel.

isnottheword

Deleted User wrote: »

Well if we electrify our transport then we'd find out how difficult it would be for renewable energy to meet a fraction of what it meets today. People really underestimate the Kwh's in petrol and diesel.

Renewables could be ideal for mass EV charging. With home power storage units now becoming affordable and inducements to charge at night, wind energy can be used at times when it may otherwise not be needed. That has always been one of the great difficulties with wind - either too much power - not enough power - and timing of those 2 extremes.

Yes but my point is that if on a windy day we can produce 60% of our electricity (limited by the grid) and we have say 100,000 electric vehicles charging at 3-6 Kw , that's a hell of a lot of extra electricity to generate, off peak generation can be around 4GW

However the more electricity we use the more we can add wind energy but we need to add a lot of solar PV but at some point it will become bonkers to think we can meet close to all our electricity needs with renewable energy. The amount of land needed would be enormous, we need to go off shore.

cros13

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes but my point is that if on a windy day we can produce 60% of our electricity (limited by the grid) and we have say 100,000 electric vehicles charging at 3-6 Kw , that's a hell of a lot of extra electricity to generate, off peak generation can be around 4GW

The grid is designed around the peak demand. We could switch 40% of the entire fleet to BEV today and only require minor upgrades to the local low voltage network.

Moving 100% of transport could be done with comparatively little extra generation.

n97 mini

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes but my point is that if on a windy day we can produce 60% of our electricity (limited by the grid) and we have say 100,000 electric vehicles charging at 3-6 Kw , that's a hell of a lot of extra electricity to generate, off peak generation can be around 4GW

However the more electricity we use the more we can add wind energy but we need to add a lot of solar PV but at some point it will become bonkers to think we can meet close to all our electricity needs with renewable energy. The amount of land needed would be enormous, we need to go off shore.

Someone linked an Eirgrid document here... Large scale solar PV ain't gonna happen here any time soon. I visited Ivanpah in Nevada during the summer and they're even having trouble making that pay!

isnottheword

n97 mini wrote: »

Someone linked an Eirgrid document here... Large scale solar PV ain't gonna happen here any time soon. I visited Ivanpah in Nevada during the summer and they're even having trouble making that pay!

Has to get cheaper & more efficient before it becomes viable here.

Wind is perfect for EV.

Scottie99

Deposit placed with Tesla under the Mrs name (strategic). Now for the second launch, hopefully the middle or top range won't be much more expensive.
It's been suggested Tesla won't allow you to individually customise your car like the S and X. Tesla will give 3 or 4 options like traditional car purchases.
I know Tesla isn't traditional..