Terminator: Dark Fate **Spoilers from post 983**

jill_valentine

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

IThe tone for the first half is perfectly forboding and threatening with no humour to spoil it. When Arnie appears, things get less coherent and I found my attention waning. The jokes of the second act were fine but I'd have preferred it if they were omitted for DVD extras or something similar.

I know it's blasphemy, and I feel appalled at myself for thinking it, but I wonder if it would have been better without him entirely. The character was fun, but there wasn't time or space to explore him properly, and it did feel like the writing lost sight of harbour a little after meeting him. And the more I think about it, the more I realise I hadn't missed him when he wasn't there.

The first half was just so lean and mean (the chase was all gold, but I thought the border camp stuff was good too, and made for a strong and much needed character note for Dani at the end) it's hard not to feel like he's interrupting a perfectly good pursuit thriller.

jill_valentine

Slydice wrote: »

Oh yeah! OH YEAH!

Like the

No Fate line! The no Fate line.. like where'd she get that? She get that from Sarah? How'd she or Dani meet Sarah before this? From Alternative universe John maybe? Is this all a long game by John?

I think it was hinted that Future Dani remembers this movie happening to her - she seems to do a double take when she meets kid-Grace and hears her name.

If that's the case, then she remembers hearing the line from Grace, who remembers hearing it from her, who remembers...

You know one thing I would have liked to see is more future war context for Grace and Dani's relationship. I get why they didn't - that's part of what's supposed to be the reveal - but it seems super ruthless to send somebody as devoted to you as Grace back to die that horrible a death on your behalf.

Don't know why that never bothered me about John and Kyle.

RoryMac

Saw this tonight and thought it was awful, didn't think the comedy worked, storyline all over the place. Hadn't expected too much just a half decent action movie to waste a few hours but found it overly long and couldn't wait for it to end

ancapailldorcha

jill_valentine wrote: »

I know it's blasphemy, and I feel appalled at myself for thinking it, but I wonder if it would have been better without him entirely. The character was fun, but there wasn't time or space to explore him properly, and it did feel like the writing lost sight of harbour a little after meeting him. And the more I think about it, the more I realise I hadn't missed him when he wasn't there.

The first half was just so lean and mean (the chase was all gold, but I thought the border camp stuff was good too, and made for a strong and much needed character note for Dani at the end) it's hard not to feel like he's interrupting a perfectly good pursuit thriller.

I think that this is a good question.

I really appreciated the "Carl" idea even though it was given little serious attention or development. I got a bit of a laugh out of some of the jokes there but there was definitely an unwelcome shift in the tone of the film. My attention started to waver at this point though the final act in the dam was quite enjoyable and I did get a kick out of seeing Arnie there.

With these sorts of soft reboots, there does seem to be a desperate longing among studios and producers to grab some ageing relic from the original films as some sort of bridge for fans and, if we're honest, fan-service. I enjoyed seeing Arnie again but I think this would have made for a tauter, more focused experience if he was left out. I'd hesitate to say the same for Hamilton given that it's nearly 30 years since she appeared in character for one of these films. In my experience, fan service just feels a tad hollow and is almost never satisfying. A clean break would have better but I definitely enjoyed this.

jill_valentine

I felt like Hamilton worked really well because I felt like her character actually had something in tune with the wider story, the idea of trying to find hope when you don't really have any right to expect it.

It didn't feel like Carl had any bigger purpose in that respect than to give them extra muscle, it felt like maybe a much meaner, leaner script took a detour to pick him up and that's why it got a little boggy from that point.

I can't deny I absolutely loved seeing him and Davis fighting as a tag team though.

Kermit.de.frog

Seems solid enough from the reviews I have seen.

I imagine reviews by big fans of the original movies are going to automatically be skewed by what happens in the first 5 minutes so I have been ignoring those ones.

Seems to be large array of opinions on the Rev 9. Some saying really menacing/disturbing, some saying underwhelming.

A lot of people saying it's not used enough in the movie?

Thoughts on the Rev 9?

jill_valentine

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Seems solid enough from the reviews I have seen.

I imagine reviews by big fans of the original movies are going to automatically be skewed by what happens in the first 5 minutes so I have been ignoring those ones.

Seems to be large array of opinions on the Rev 9. Some saying really menacing/disturbing, some saying underwhelming.

A lot of people saying it's not used enough in the movie?

Thoughts on the Rev 9?

Kind of... Inconsistent. There are chunks when it doesn't feel like he's anywhere on the chessboard at all. But when he's doing his thing he can be great. I don't think that's really Luna's doing though - his musical cue is genuinely unnerving imho, and the way he moves when he doesn't need to blend in is really uncanny (I saw somebody compare it to a xenomorph)

He definitely comes across as the smartest Terminator so far, and the trailers have done him no justice, because they've edited lines to sound like wisecracks that make far more sense in context. He's a convincing infiltrator, and you can see him pick up and use information later on, it just means he's a little less Arnie or Robert Patrick distinctive.

The stuff in the run up to the border camp in particular, he does some (imho) really clever stuff to get the drop on them, and there's a great sense of anxiety when they're in there while he gets step by step closer to them and they remain literally caged. Other times you could honestly forget about him, like I say.

In terms of how dangerous he is in a fight, when he's fighting Davis one on one, he feels dangerous, in the manner of wrestling. The way she fights him like she's absolutely frantic to put him down hard and run sells the idea he's a threat. Otherwise, not so much.

ancapailldorcha

jill_valentine wrote: »

I felt like Hamilton worked really well because I felt like her character actually had something in tune with the wider story, the idea of trying to find hope when you don't really have any right to expect it.

It didn't feel like Carl had any bigger purpose in that respect than to give them extra muscle, it felt like maybe a much meaner, leaner script took a detour to pick him up and that's why it got a little boggy from that point.

I can't deny I absolutely loved seeing him and Davis fighting as a tag team though.

Ditto. The story isn't about her but she's deeply tied into it and the concept was well executed. Great to see her back but I don't think she'll do another one.

Kermit.de.frog

How is the new saviour of mankind in this? Is she any good in the role (or more importantly is she allowed to be by the script and dialogue) or is she just carried along like a briefcase?

jill_valentine

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

How is the new saviour of mankind in this? Is she any good in the role (or more importantly is she allowed to be by the script and dialogue) or is she just carried along like a briefcase?

The actress is better than I thought she was from the trailer for sure, which was the first thing to strike me.

This is a really hard one to answer though, because - weirdly - they do a surprisingly elegant job of illustrating natural leadership qualities into her early on, without making it too obvious that's what they're doing. There's a very funny, messy little diversion into a shop that does this best, and set me up to think yeah, I reckon I'm could stand to be convinced here.

Later on though, when she's supposed to be really growing into it, it's actually harder to see. I think that's a product of the writing starting to wobble later on, I don't really blame Natalia Reyes. A touch of briefcasism definitely strikes at the start of the third act.

The trickiest part for me is that a scene where a character lets something slip about her that was so universally spoiled it didn't work for me at all, but I honestly can't tell if might have worked way better if I hadn't known it in advance. It's clearly meant to be a big reveal and seriously affects the other characters, but it involves a terribly clumsy flashforward they 100% should have cut. It felt like the whole audience was thinking "Yeah, and?", but I can't decide if that's really on the movie or on the marketing.

There's a slightly cringey moment when she's supposed to be the big badass taking the fight to the enemy, but the visuals during it were so cool I didn't mind as much as I should have - and it comes right after they have her do something I found genuinely a little shocking (in a good way) which tempered it for me.

So, a mixed, uh, briefcase really. Her worst moments are during the movie's weirdly lumpy phase, so I couldn't say I picked her out as a weak spot in particular.

Slydice

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

How is the new saviour of mankind in this? Is she any good in the role (or more importantly is she allowed to be by the script and dialogue) or is she just carried along like a briefcase?

jill_valentine wrote: »

The actress is better than I thought she was from the trailer for sure, which was the first thing to strike me.

Something about her type of leadership won me over. It just felt.. right.

Eventually gotta take the fight to the machines

.

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

A lot of people saying it's not used enough in the movie?

Thoughts on the Rev 9?

Definitely one of the reasons I think

they are working towards a sequel. There's just too much mystery wrapped around it, why it speaks and what the deal with Legion is

.

jill_valentine

Slydice wrote: »

Something about her type of leadership won me over. It just felt.. right.

Eventually gotta take the fight to the machines

.

I really liked her after the pharmacy stuff. She only has a few moments to make a decision, and she takes the scary one where she has to hold a gun on some frightened old people.

Thought it was a great way of telling us she's willing to make unpalatable decisions when somebody's life is at stake. And having her pretty much murder her most devoted cheerleader in the end was pretty darn bold, I think.

If they could have been that clever with the rest of the writing for her I would have been 100% on board. I was just so shocked at how jarringly, gratingly bad her future war grandstanding bit was, and it set me back on her a LOT.

Kermit.de.frog

Ultimately the problem the franchise has is how Cameron wrapped up T2 in a way that the story is as evolved and finished as it gets. It literally ended the story and the narrative.

i.e fans argue for future war but there is no future war the way T2 ended, that's gone.

Very difficult for any writers/producers no matter how talented they are to get around that.

You can never get back to what Terminator was in those first two movies.

Within that constraint it seems the film achieves all that it realistically can.

P.S regardless of his story good to hear Arnie actually acts like a terminator in this movie more so than since T2!

Corvo

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

P.S regardless of his story good to hear Arnie actually acts like a terminator in this movie more so than since T2!

Come on Kermit.

His name is Carl, watches NFL, cuts up lime for Corona and runs a drapery business! I lost all enjoyment from the movie at that point.

Kermit.de.frog

Ah right, I didn't know that

Corvo

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Ah right, I didn't know that

I'm sorry, I didn't read your post correctly and thought you had seen it. My apologies.

py2006

Just back from seeing it. A lot better than I was expecting.

However,

the airplane scene was awful and kind of ruined things a bit

.

I am not sure if its my eyes, or the quality of the picture in the cinema but I found some of the night scenes hard to see.

I kind of wish

Arnie put those sunglasses on, even for just that mirror bit

The White Wolf

I was entertained by Arnie's comic timing but it's the first time I thought to myself ****, that's a ****ing creepy ass machine underneath that skin going on about children's draperies.

Kermit.de.frog

James Cameron has given a new interview saying he was pretty much not involved at all in the movie and was never on set and never even met the cast. He just wrote down some ideas and gave opinions on the final cut.

https://collider.com/james-cameron-terminator-dark-fate-interview/

Classic Cameron and post T2 Terminator movies. Claim it's the real deal for money but when it goes sour...

"This had NOTHING to do with me" :pac:

The White Wolf

Well there you have it not that we needed more evidence. Cameron is an absolute tit.

Church on Tuesday

The White Wolf wrote: »

I was entertained by Arnie's comic timing but it's the first time I thought to myself ****, that's a ****ing creepy ass machine underneath that skin going on about children's draperies.

Christ...

The White Wolf

I haven't said too much about the film but the more I've digested it, it's annoying me:

Sarah being fed coordinates to eliminate terminators even before she met Dani but why? She's wanted in 50 States but who are the targets of these Terminators she's been eliminating?

Grace saying she couldn't tell Dani the truth because she couldn't handle it according to older Dani, even though the former seemed to accept her predicament fairly well from early on.

Arnie had a fairly easy job dealing with this insanely advanced machine; never mind the The T1000, the TX gave him more grief.

The brief and patronising riffs on Fuller's score where necessary .

Arnie's performance elevates it. That's the only reason it rates above the rest of the failed attempts.

jill_valentine

The White Wolf wrote: »

I haven't said too much about the film but the more I've digested it, it's annoying me:

Sarah being fed coordinates to eliminate terminators even before she met Dani but why? She's wanted in 50 States but who are the targets of these Terminators she's been eliminating?

... John.

The idea is that they were all scattered out across the timeline at the same time, just as the Phone Book Killer and T1000 were. Skynet, in its death throes, flung out killers all over time to try and kill John Connor and save itself. That's what happened Carl - he killed John even though it was already redundant to do so.

The movie Time Travellers Wife is garbage but actually did do a lot to get my head around this idea.

Grace saying she couldn't tell Dani the truth because she couldn't handle it according to older Dani, even though the former seemed to accept her predicament fairly well from early on.

At the start of the movie, Dani had to be physically forced to leave her brother for the sake of the greater good. By the end, she's willing to kill somebody who idolises her for the greater good. Something's changed.

Arnie's performance elevates it. That's the only reason it rates above the rest of the failed attempts.

His performance was great. I'm increasingly convinced his character was the script's biggest problem.

RickBlaine

I thought the initial action sequence in Mexico was decent and quite ferocious. But after that shot of adrenaline, my interest in the movie tapered off.

ebbsy

I thought the film was plugging along well until they got to the plane bit. Then it turned into a superman film.

The acting was very good up to then and the Rev 9 was great.

What a pity.

jill_valentine

I can see what they were going for in the plane bit - it's a Vomit Comet simulated zero g scenario - but a big problem is that the physics of that IRL look crazy so it wouldn't matter if the CGI was absolutely flawless, it would still be hard to convince. Also strange because it does all look CGI when I know for a fact they went to massive expense to build an actual moving plane fuselage set, and you cannot tell.

ebbsy

jill_valentine wrote: »

I can see what they were going for in the plane bit - it's a Vomit Comet simulated zero g scenario - but a big problem is that the physics of that IRL look crazy so it wouldn't matter if the CGI was absolutely flawless, it would still be hard to convince. Also strange because it does all look CGI when I know for a fact they went to massive expense to build an actual moving plane fuselage set, and you cannot tell.

I thought that bit left me deflated, and it went downhill from there.

The dam/underwater sequence was no better.

jill_valentine

Honestly, I could live with the plane stuff. The water stuff was the lowest point of the movie though, and then the dam stuff afterwards brought it back up to "pretty good", I hugely enjoyed that last fight and there were some decently nightmarish visuals of the badguy coming out of the wreckage. That opening 25+ minutes though, I loved every second, I loved it enough that it still averages out as a damn good action movie to me.

santana75

Saw it tonight and it was actually alright. McKenzie davis is brilliant, liked her in bladerunner 2049 and she does a great job here aswell. Arnie puts in a nice, understated performance aswell. His acting seems to be getting better with time. Linda hamilton though......she over cooks pretty much every scene, the director needed to calm her down more. Solid movie all the same, a lot better than i thought it'd be.

Uncle Charlie

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

James Cameron has given a new interview saying he was pretty much not involved at all in the movie and was never on set and never even met the cast. He just wrote down some ideas and gave opinions on the final cut.

https://collider.com/james-cameron-terminator-dark-fate-interview/

Classic Cameron and post T2 Terminator movies. Claim it's the real deal for money but when it goes sour...

"This had NOTHING to do with me" :pac:

I don't understand how Cameron would even care about money anymore when hes worth 700 million.


If I was him money would be last thing on my mind.