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Terminator: Dark Fate **Spoilers from post 983**
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Join Date:Posts: 34063
Messaging is in blockbusters, just depends how well its hidden: some weave it artfully enough to be ignored (Mad Max: Fury Road; Star Wars FFS however superficially), whereas others can be as blunt as a hammer (Independence Day; Day After Tomorrow pretty much set itself up as an inversion of modern third->first world migration; Dark Knight Rises; any Blockbuster funded by a Chinese studio tends to have a pro-China narrative).
Heck, speaking of China: how many American blockbusters set themselves up as inherently pro-American, pro-captailism narratives? If there's one happy result of the international markets becoming more important, it's that the obnoxious jingoism in American cinema has lessened. Yet only now we're up in arms over 'politics'?
Agree with the above sentiment that there's a LOT of bad air milling around over a film not even out yet. Feels like some have already made up their mind and it won't matter how good/bad/Atari Jaguar the final film is, people will pursue their confirmation bias.
Me, I'm going to hate it because it'll never be as good as my Battle of the Bulge Terminator film damnit
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Messaging is in blockbusters, just depends how well its hidden: some weave it artfully enough to be ignored (Mad Max: Fury Road; Star Wars FFS however superficially), whereas others can be as blunt as a hammer (Independence Day; Day After Tomorrow pretty much set itself up as an inversion of modern third->first world migration; Dark Knight Rises; any Blockbuster funded by a Chinese studio tends to have a pro-China narrative).
Heck, speaking of China: how many American blockbusters set themselves up as inherently pro-American, pro-captailism narratives? If there's one happy result of the international markets becoming more important, it's that the obnoxious jingoism in American cinema has lessened. Yet only now we're up in arms over 'politics'?
Agree with the above sentiment that there's a LOT of bad air milling around over a film not even out yet. Feels like some have already made up their mind and it won't matter how good/bad/Atari Jaguar the final film is, people will pursue their confirmation bias.
Me, I'm going to hate it because it'll never be as good as my Battle of the Bulge Terminator film damnit
There was a lot of hoo-rah! Action movies out of Hollywood in the 80's and 90's. Simpler times I guess, but at least they were pro something. Nasty, horrendously on the nose side swipes from the side-line however are something else.
Trump derangement syndrome has infected Hollywood and they're not subtle about it.
Entertainment can be political, sometimes, like Watchmen for example, it can even be great, but for the most part leave it in the subtext (remember subtext?).
When it's a blatant virtue signal like Captain Marvel which just wears it on its sleeve that’s off-putting. I see a lot of complaining about 'incels crying about Captain marvel or X or Y being 'attacked'. It's performative outrage about a reaction they deliberately courted. Crying about a butt-hurt reaction to your butt-hurt messaging is hilariously hypocritical.
If you're going to do things like this, don't pretend to be shocked by getting a reaction:
I see no need for any Terminators movies beyond T2 that neatly closed the loop.
But let's not pretend that a Terminator story about a Latinx chick who needs to be rescued from one of Trump's ICE concentration camps so that she can be the saviour of humanities future, isn't some of the most eye rollingly woke nonsenses that's so on the nose that there's no way to interpret as anyting other F Drumpfh propaganda.0 -
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Join Date:Posts: 34063
There was a lot of hoo-rah! Action movies out of Hollywood in the 80's and 90's. Simpler times I guess, but at least they were pro something. Nasty, horrendously on the nose side swipes from the side-line however are something else.
Trump derangement syndrome has infected Hollywood and they're not subtle about it.
They were pro American Exceptionalism, and pro American interference in developing nations (usually threading a War on Drugs plot); stuff like Commando, Predator and whatnot were made during the Reagan era of Contra/Nicaragua, and its overall interference in Latin America (arguably the effects of which are still seen to this day. A lot of people forget just how much the US dabbled in Latin American countries)
Fact was America was still at a highpoint of its power, while international markets didn't count for as much; many films reflected this with an openly jingoistic view of the world. And why would they? America was on top, so that informed the movies they made. Power Fantasies were very much 'in'.
It's easy to look back now on it, shrug and go "simpler times", but blockbusters were no less politically insidious than stuff like "Wolf Warrior 2", the highest grossing movie in China ever & an openly propagandist piece. Eventually you saw a kickback against this mentality as the 80s went on - to the jury I submit ...
Robocop: arguably a politics-first blockbuster, that very much took American Exceptionalism and went "this stinks". But it had cool robots so I guess we didn't care?
Don't get the "Trump Derangement Syndrome", cos TBH I haven't seen any films that openly mock the President. That's just conflating a cultural mood that predated him (Ghostbusters 2016 was produced before he became President)But let's not pretend that Latinx chick who needs to be rescued from one of Trump's ICE concentration camps so that she can be the saviour of humanities future isn't some of the most eye rollingly woke nonsenses that's so on the nose that there's no way to interpret it as anyting other F Drumpfh propaganda.
Missed the bit where I said we should probably wait til the movie comes out before we know things for sure?
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There was a lot of hoo-rah! Action movies out of Hollywood in the 80's and 90's. Simpler times I guess, but at least they were pro something. Nasty, horrendously on the nose side swipes from the side-line however are something else.
Trump derangement syndrome has infected Hollywood and they're not subtle about it.
Entertainment can be political, sometimes, like Watchmen for example, it can even be great, but for the most part leave it in the subtext (remember subtext?).
When it's a blatant virtue signal like Captain Marvel which just wears it on its sleeve that’s off-putting. I see a lot of complaining about 'incels crying about Captain marvel or X or Y being 'attacked'. It's performative outrage about a reaction they deliberately courted. Crying about a butt-hurt reaction to your butt-hurt messaging is hilariously hypocritical.
If you're going to do things like this, don't pretend to be shocked by getting a reaction:
I see no need for any Terminators movies beyond T2 that neatly closed the loop.
But let's not pretend that a Terminator story about a Latinx chick who needs to be rescued from one of Trump's ICE concentration camps so that she can be the saviour of humanities future, isn't some of the most eye rollingly woke nonsenses that's so on the nose that there's no way to interpret as anyting other F Drumpfh propaganda.
Just to be clear, you're still asserting *Terminator* is the one bringing too much political baggage....?0 -
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They were pro American Exceptionalism, and pro American interference in developing nations (usually threading a War on Drugs plot); stuff like Commando, Predator and whatnot were made during the Reagan era of Contra/Nicaragua, and its overall interference in Latin America (arguably the effects of which are still seen to this day. A lot of people forget just how much the US dabbled in Latin American countries)
Fact was America was still at a highpoint of its power, while international markets didn't count for as much; many films reflected this with an openly jingoistic view of the world. And why would they? America was on top, so that informed the movies they made. Power Fantasies were very much 'in'.
It's easy to look back now on it, shrug and go "simpler times", but blockbusters were no less politically insidious than stuff like "Wolf Warrior 2", the highest grossing movie in China ever & an openly propagandist piece. Eventually you saw a kickback against this mentality as the 80s went on - to the jury I submit ...
Robocop: arguably a politics-first blockbuster, that very much took American Exceptionalism and went "this stinks". But it had cool robots so I guess we didn't care?
Don't get the "Trump Derangement Syndrome", cos TBH I haven't seen any films that openly mock the President. That's just conflating a cultural mood that predated him (Ghostbusters 2016 was produced before he became President)
Missed the bit where I said we should probably wait til the movie comes out before we know things for sure?
So pro American Exceptionalism bad, pro far left messaging good? Because you only seem to have a problem with one.
How about neiter in my dumb action blockbuster entertainment?0 -
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Join Date:Posts: 34063
So pro American Exceptionalism bad, pro far left messaging good? Because you only seem to have a problem with one.
How about neiter in my dumb action blockbuster entertainment?
Not even remotely the point I was making You sniffed at 80s Reagan-era politics as being superficial, whereas there was a clear, political context to movies of that time. It's easy to be relaxed in hindsight, when said era is passed and those cultural markers no longer exist in the zeitgeist or personally affect you.
Point being, art doesn't exist in a vacuum and pretending that ONLY NOW have we blockbusters with a message is false, and disingenuous.
But..
Again.
You're just presuming the plot of Dark Fate, which, ya know, isn't out yet. So all the buzzwords in the world doesn't hide the fact that nobody here has seen the film and are just inserting our biases and presumptions into the final product. I
If we want to, these things can be ignored. I don't care about Commandos politics so ignore them. I like RoboCop's blatant satire, so it enriches the film. Horses for courses0 -
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Join Date:Posts: 34063
Based on some posters in this thread, Terminator 2 would have been too feministy in the present day.
Tim Burton's Batman is 30 yeas old, and was checking out the sequel, Batman Returns out of nostalgia. Realistically, it's Michelle Pfeiffer's movie as she becomes catwoman, but what struck me was just how aggressively overt it was with exactly the kind of thing only now apparently present in Hollywood: this 1992 film ('simpler times' to use the phrase of someone else) had male characters acting like dumb neanderthals when Pfeiffer walks into scene, with the latter then making clichéd "I am woman, here me roar" (including that very line) remarks before kicking their ass.
Point being: if that film was released today, based on the conclusions presumed over something as milquetoast as Captain Marvel, those outraged by that would go BANANAS. Or is it just the fact Pfeiffer dressed in a S&M fetish costume that ameliorated that angst of misandry (honestly, I'd say it probably is. I'd be lying if I didn't say it was my bag, but her character really is 'militant' and then some)?
Look, I get some people are fed up reading about this topic (and it is off-topic too) - so am I! There's literally 2 separate threads now of whining about SJW/misandry/ between here and the James Bond thread - but IMO it's a valid topic; if people insist it exists, then it's fair game to discuss the whys, hows, and that ... yah know, perhaps it's not the great modern politicisation that some would say it is. 0 -
This...... This is about Terminators, right? I mean: Sarah Conor, Arnie, Terminators, guns and sh*t blowing up, right?
I have no problem with Sarah Conor being a woman.... If I remember right, she was ALWAYS a woman in the movies, right? And she was always badass - Especially after she meets Kyle. Oh. maybe people (either side of argument) have a problem there "Oh, she only became a bad-ass after a man showed her how". No..... She only became a bad-ass after a huge f*cking robot tried to f*cking KILL HER!!!
People get their knickers in a twist about both sides of the argument and, to me it all sounds like:
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TheIrishGrover wrote: »This...... This is about Terminators, right? I mean: Sarah Conor, Arnie, Terminators, guns and sh*t blowing up, right?
I have no problem with Sarah Conor being a woman.... If I remember right, she was ALWAYS a woman in the movies, right? And she was always badass - Especially after she meets Kyle. Oh. maybe people (either side of argument) have a problem there "Oh, she only became a bad-ass after a man showed her how". No..... She only became a bad-ass after a huge f*cking robot tried to f*cking KILL HER!!!
People get their knickers in a twist about both sides of the argument and, to me it all sounds like:
Nicely said. The way I look at it is as long as a film does not insult a portion of its audience then we are all good which is the reason I like terminator, Alien, Wonder woman and most recently Alita, they are just good movies with bad ass female protagonists.0 -
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Tim Burton's Batman is 30 yeas old, and was checking out the sequel, Batman Returns out of nostalgia. Realistically, it's Michelle Pfeiffer's movie as she becomes catwoman, but what struck me was just how aggressively overt it was with exactly the kind of thing only now apparently present in Hollywood: this 1992 film ('simpler times' to use the phrase of someone else) had male characters acting like dumb neanderthals when Pfeiffer walks into scene, with the latter then making clichéd "I am woman, here me roar" (including that very line) remarks before kicking their ass.
Point being: if that film was released today, based on the conclusions presumed over something as milquetoast as Captain Marvel, those outraged by that would go BANANAS. Or is it just the fact Pfeiffer dressed in a S&M fetish costume that ameliorated that angst of misandry (honestly, I'd say it probably is. I'd be lying if I didn't say it was my bag, but her character really is 'militant' and then some)?
Look, I get some people are fed up reading about this topic (and it is off-topic too) - so am I! There's literally 2 separate threads now of whining about SJW/misandry/ between here and the James Bond thread - but IMO it's a valid topic; if people insist it exists, then it's fair game to discuss the whys, hows, and that ... yah know, perhaps it's not the great modern politicisation that some would say it is.
It hurts my brain to ponder how old movies would be received today, maybe its feasible as its about a time travel movie but anyhoo. I guess it comes back to a couple of questions , are a % of the traditional audience for certain movies being alienated and if so is it just movie makers calculating that they are acceptable losses because they anticipate more growth from other demographics? At the end of the day people like what they like and have no obligation to buy the next product. Secondly if a TV show or movie goes “woke” does it increase the chances of the show objectively being less good. Or a side point are the movie companies deliberately putting out contentious trailers/info to generate “outrage” so that more people write articles that they wouldn’t have done otherwise in the hope that it puts more bums on seats in the end? What amuses me about the progressive press is that they end up trying to out woke each other and start attacking the movie and actors anyway
I watched Captain Marvel on a flight recently (so didn’t pay for it ha) , it was grand as far as Marvel movies go, one thing they seem to be doing though is pretending they are breaking new ground when they aren’t. The next Bond be may end up being cookie cutter or it may not who knows.A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DuQGi3JMk_s
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