France v England

mansize

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Bloody northerners all look and sound the same to me ;-)

Portsmouth?

mansize

BBDBB wrote: »

Just a bit of bantah!

They don't know if they're arthur or martha...

pickarooney

thomond2006 wrote: »

The player of the Championship has to go to Itoje. Even at this stage he's hitting rucks ferociously.

Didn't play enough games an gave away too many penalties. Still a great debut season.

mansize

the RTE lads had sexton as the 10 of the 6 Nations... Really queen?

Stheno

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Here, there's nowt for it but to listen tee it thyself.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rW6_O24uXU

It's Billy Elliot!

sydthebeat

mansize wrote: »

the RTE lads had sexton as the 10 of the 6 Nations... Really queen?

By a large margin he was the best 10 of the competition.

Fratton Fred

ednwireland wrote: »

thats regionalist !

im from yorkshire

I'd never diss a county that embraces the game we invented ;-)

bilston

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I'd never diss a county that embraces the game we invented ;-)

We invented Cricket????

Fratton Fred

bilston wrote: »

We invented Cricket????

Hampshire did.

Rightwing

We have to give E Jones credit here. Comes in and gets the GS in his first year, as many as we have achieved with our 'golden generation'.

I was impressed with France last night too, they will only improve, perhaps the 6N standard is finally improving, as Italy are finding out to their cost.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Rightwing wrote: »

We have to give E Jones credit here. Comes in and gets the GS in his first year, as many as we have achieved with our 'golden generation'.

How much of that do you put down to Jones though? Given he's working with basically the same squad of players as Lancaster was?

EnglishLurker, I think it was, pointed out to me that England were much improved around set pieces and that was one major difference to see in the Jones era but if your talking about scrums and lineouts isn't it just as likely it's the presence of Dylan Hartley that's making the difference there? England really struggled with their hookers at the WC.

I'm not trying to dismiss Jones' contribution, to be clear, I'm just curious to know how much of England's success people are crediting to him. 6 Nations wise England were very very close to it the last few years anyway.

Rightwing

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

How much of that do you put down to Jones though? Given he's working with basically the same squad of players as Lancaster was?

EnglishLurker, I think it was, pointed out to me that England were much improved around set pieces and that was one major difference to see in the Jones era but if your talking about scrums and lineouts isn't it just as likely it's the presence of Dylan Hartley that's making the difference there? England really struggled with their hookers at the WC.

I'm not trying to dismiss Jones' contribution, to be clear, I'm just curious to know how much of England's success people are crediting to him. 6 Nations wise England were very very close to it the last few years anyway.

Good post, Lancaster was unlucky no doubt, but can you always be unlucky? Jones probably has them operating as a more confident team. Furthermore, this win will take pressure off them.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Rightwing wrote: »

Good post, Lancaster was unlucky no doubt, but can you always be unlucky? Jones probably has them operating as a more confident team. Furthermore, this win will take pressure off them.

I'm interested to see what Jones does when faced with having to make actual difficult choices in his team selections.

I'd have Nowell first on my team sheet every week but Lancaster clearly favoured Mays. Will Jones do the same?

When Slade is fit again does he go in at 12 meaning one of Farrell or Ford have to be dropped? What about Tuilagi, who Jones says is a 12 not a 13, same question as before, or does he keep him on the bench?

The Farrell vs Ford one I am most interested in seeing. Farrell is not a 12, at least not compared to the other options and Ford seemed a bit like a passenger this 6 Nations. The only times he stood out was when he made mistakes.

Rightwing

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

I'm interested to see what Jones does when faced with having to make actual difficult choices in his team selections.

I'd have Nowell first on my team sheet every week but Lancaster clearly favoured Mays. Will Jones do the same?

When Slade is fit again does he go in at 12 meaning one of Farrell or Ford have to be dropped? What about Tuilagi, who Jones says is a 12 not a 13, same question as before, or does he keep him on the bench?

The Farrell vs Ford one I am most interested in seeing. Farrell is not a 12, at least not compared to the other options and Ford seemed a bit like a passenger this 6 Nations. The only times he stood out was when he made mistakes.

I'd agree with you here. But remember Jones isn't in the job very long, he will get to know the players better. I see England being very competitive on the world stage under his tenure. Lancaster had them competitive in the 6N.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Rightwing wrote: »

I'd agree with you here. But remember Jones isn't in the job very long, he will get to know the players better. I see England being very competitive on the world stage under his tenure. Lancaster had them competitive in the 6N.

That's exactly why I'm holding off my judgment on him until later in the year. He did make the minor difference needed to get England over the line in the 6 Nations but it remains to be seen where they stand against the SH teams with him in charge.

Where are England going in the summer?

Rightwing

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

That's exactly why I'm holding off my judgment on him until later in the year. He did make the minor difference needed to get England over the line in the 6 Nations but it remains to be seen where they stand against the SH teams with him in charge.

Where are England going in the summer?

Agreed, a very fine line between success and failure for Lancaster.

I also feel we should have got more than 1 GS over the last 10 years or so.



The Wallabies, 3 tests, should be good!

The Rape of Lucretia

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

He did make the minor difference needed to get England over the line in the 6 Nations but it remains to be seen where they stand against the SH teams with him in charge.

The parallels with Ireland and Kidney are there. Yes both brought something to a squad that had progressed well, just not gotten it over the line, and then a new coach does bring a little extra to build on that, and pull off a grand slam.
But as we saw with Kidney, while he brought something to add to the EOS momentum, he lacked severely in other aspects and so overall, the ship went backwards for the next four years.
Similarly, judgement overall of Jones with England must see where they go over the next season or two.
I have a feeling it wont be a DK scenario though, and that they could become the dominant team for the next 4-5 years.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

I have a feeling it wont be a DK scenario though, and that they could become the dominant team for the next 4-5 years.

When you look at the players they have at their disposal it really shouldn't be. The again, compare it to the English soccer team, who as individuals were some of the best players in the world but put them together and they were rubbish.
The change in Australia in the few months Cheika was in charge is another comparison. Essentially the same players who were in all sorts of disarray in November were in a World Cup final the following October.

An England v Australia test series could be a lot of fun this summer.

Can you get Sky Sports for just a month, I wonder?

pickarooney

I think Farrell had a fine tournament at 12. I don't remember him making any garing errors at least. Joseph was largely invisible in the last few games. I'm sure some will say Farrell wasn't giving him ball to play with.

bilston

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

When you look at the players they have at their disposal it really shouldn't be. The again, compare it to the English soccer team, who as individuals were some of the best players in the world but put them together and they were rubbish.
The change in Australia in the few months Cheika was in charge is another comparison. Essentially the same players who were in all sorts of disarray in November were in a World Cup final the following October.

An England v Australia test series could be a lot of fun this summer.

Can you get Sky Sports for just a month, I wonder?

Australia v England
South Africa v Ireland
New Zealand v Wales
Argentina v Italy

Not sure where France are off to. Scotland go to Japan but that may not be on Sky, but June promises to be a fun month of test rugby. How many wins will the NH get I wonder? I reckon one each for Ireland and England and Scotland to win in Japan. Wales and Italy to be whitewashed.

Edit - A quick google suggests France play Argentina and Italy play Canada and the USA?

Stheno

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Can you get Sky Sports for just a month, I wonder?

You can

neelia11

bilston wrote: »

Australia v England
South Africa v Ireland
New Zealand v Wales
Argentina v Italy

Not sure where France are off to. Scotland go to Japan but that may not be on Sky, but June promises to be a fun month of test rugby. How many wins will the NH get I wonder? I reckon one each for Ireland and England and Scotland to win in Japan. Wales and Italy to be whitewashed.

Edit - A quick google suggests France play Argentina and Italy play Canada and the USA?

France go to argentina in late june.Italy play them on june 11 before heading north
google "rugby internationals 2016 june" and the first link gives a full list.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Stheno wrote: »

You can

Through Virgin?

bilston

neelia11 wrote: »

France go to argentina in late june.Italy play them on june 11 before heading north
google "rugby internationals 2016 june" and the first link gives a full list.

I see England play Wales at Twickenham at the end of May. Didn't know that was happening.

Stheno

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Through Virgin?

No idea about virgin tbh, I have sky sports direct, and cancel and re subscribe regularly

neelia11

bilston wrote: »

I see England play Wales at Twickenham at the end of May. Didn't know that was happening.

It clashes with the league finals I think too

English Lurker

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

How much of that do you put down to Jones though? Given he's working with basically the same squad of players as Lancaster was?

EnglishLurker, I think it was, pointed out to me that England were much improved around set pieces and that was one major difference to see in the Jones era but if your talking about scrums and lineouts isn't it just as likely it's the presence of Dylan Hartley that's making the difference there? England really struggled with their hookers at the WC.

I'm not trying to dismiss Jones' contribution, to be clear, I'm just curious to know how much of England's success people are crediting to him. 6 Nations wise England were very very close to it the last few years anyway.

It was more solid than the World Cup, but then Lancaster somehow turned the pack into garbage in the months preceding. I thought the lineout was better than last 6N but the scrum maybe a little worse... but either way, Hartley was involved, so it wasn't him. The lineout was probably a lot to do with Steve Borthwick in any case.

Uhm, I don't know how much to credit Jones with tbh. Did we win where previously we lost? Yeah. Did we win against worse sides than we lost against previously? Yeah. Was the injury god nicer this time around? Yup. People go on about the achievement of winning it with three away games... but those away games are against the worst. Personally I think it's currently a significant amount harder for England when they've got Ireland and Wales away.

Clearly Jones contributed something, but how much, I don't know. As quite a few people have said, lets see how the next few international windows pan out.

The other thing I'd add about Jones is -

He got a ready made squad with plenty of motivation and barely any injuries. There's quite a few coaches who can achieve success in that situation.

But at some point, probably, the situation will get sour - and that's when the real test comes. Not necessarily as in, can you still get wins after 10 members of the first team squad are out, but can you pick up the pieces and get the winning way back when you lose it. That's the real test.

p.s. I thought Ford did pretty well, all things considered, certainly enough that I'd keep him as my fly-half and jettison Farrell for a real inside-centre. And I actually wasn't sure about Ford prior to the tournament, believe it or not.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

English Lurker wrote: »

People go on about the achievement of winning it with three away games... but those away games are against the worst. Personally I think it's currently a significant amount harder for England when they've got Ireland and Wales away.

I heard something the other day where someone was saying that there's so little between England, Wales and Ireland that it can come down to as little as what way the fixtures fall, who get's who at home, which teams you have to play at either side of a shorter turnaround etc.

I don't think that was necessarily the case this year, Ireland really should have won against France and the draw the first weekend pretty much sank both ourselves and Wales. But generally speaking if we had to play England, France and Wales away I wouldn't be hugely confident.

neelia11

Just read article found on twitter that hartley cant remember the trophy presentation after his knock out on saturday

TeoReid

neelia11 wrote: »

Just read article found on twitter that hartley cant remember the trophy presentation after his knock out on saturday

I just saw the incident and it still amazes my how players (from either side) come in and grab the player on the ground. surely they are warned not to do this?