10 minute Dart frequency: Union and other issues

cdebru

devnull wrote: »

I wonder where they got the idea to involve personal needs breaks in this?

Honestly, is that the best SIPTU can do?

Personal needs breaks are an issue for all mobile workers, absolutely nothing new in that, they don't have a colostomy bag fitted when they start work.

LXFlyer

cdebru wrote: »

How do you know what he meant ? I answered what he posted, have been employed as his official translator ?

Just repeating what you already posted is kind of pointless, but since we are there, timetables can be legal and allow for all kinds of breaks on paper but in reality are a work of fiction.

As I said - apply some common sense.

No one would (nor should) ever be expected to work without getting their required breaks.

markpb

cdebru wrote:

Just repeating what you already posted is kind of pointless, but since we are there, timetables can be legal and allow for all kinds of breaks on paper but in reality are a work of fiction.

So the union are threatening strike action in case the roster might not work out in the future? Since no one has actually seen the timetable or roster, what else can they base their grievances on? A bad feeling in their waters?

patrickbrophy18

Whatever about the internal workings of Irish Rail, it shouldn't be allowed to get in the way of increasing the frequency of services to meet current demand levels. This could potentially take more cars off the road and if the planned increase is going to be shelved because of internal nuances, they will have failed in their number one job. It is often the case where I would go to the ticketing office and deal with someone who is very ungraceful and rude in their job. Some are even in a back room behind the ticketing office watching TV. While I would like to think that the majority of Irish Rail employees are decent hard working people, the alarmingly high prevalence of an unwillingness to work tells a lot of commuters a different story. Finally, the internal objections to rosters is just adding insult to injury.

cdebru

markpb wrote: »

So the union are threatening strike action in case the roster might not work out in the future? Since no one has actually seen the timetable or roster, what else can they base their grievances on? A bad feeling in their waters?

I have no idea what they have or haven't seen, their number is on their website I'm sure they would be delighted to explain their grievances to you.

cdebru

lxflyer wrote: »

As I said - apply some common sense.

No one would (nor should) ever be expected to work without getting their required breaks.

Which is exactly what I was doing applying common sense, no one should I won't put money on no one would.

end of the road

patrickbrophy18 wrote: »

increasing the frequency of services to meet current demand levels. This could potentially take more cars off the road

and potentially put more cars on the roads between dublin and belfast/rosslare/sligo/longford as journey times on those services are made slower. but never mind.

patrickbrophy18

end of the road wrote: »

and potentially put more cars on the roads between dublin and belfast/rosslare/sligo/longford as journey times on those services are made slower. but never mind.

How exactly are journey's going to be made slower?

By the looks of it, the DART journey's between Glenageary and Pearse are going to remain the same speed at 30 minutes.

Brendan Bendar

cdebru wrote: »

Personal needs breaks are an issue for all mobile workers, absolutely nothing new in that, they don't have a colostomy bag fitted when they start work.

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Infini

patrickbrophy18 wrote: »

How exactly are journey's going to be made slower?

By the looks of it, the DART journey's between Glenageary and Pearse are going to remain the same speed at 30 minutes.

Go look at the proposed timetable they put out. That part is true theyre making journey times longer expecially around the bray area.

bk

end of the road wrote: »

and potentially put more cars on the roads between dublin and belfast/rosslare/sligo/longford as journey times on those services are made slower. but never mind.

There is plenty of road capacity on the motorways outside the M50.

Irish Rail/NTA are rightfully refocusing on city center and surburban capacity, where public transport really shines.

end of the road

bk wrote: »

There is plenty of road capacity on the motorways outside the M50.
Irish Rail/NTA are rightfully refocusing on city center and surburban capacity, where public transport really shines.

no, not rightfully at all when it is likely going to slow everyone down more, and it is debatible as to how much demand there would be for it. there may be at peak time but outside peak times it is very debatible at least. it is possible the current and future demand could be catered for with simply lengthening all trains to 6 and 8 car again. as we have a network (whether people like it or not) the effects to all services need to be taken into account. doesn't matter whether there is supposibly space on the motor ways outside the m50, any extra traffic will ultimately culminate in more delays within the dublin area for road users. i'm afraid "shur spend more money building roads" isn't really a good strategy long term either. encouraging use of public transport means encouraging use of public transport. not supposibly encouraging it on bits and discouraging it on others. less cars using the roads is what we want, not more. it frees up usage for those who really need to use the roads, and it means less ware and tare. isn't that not what us public transport supporters want?

LXFlyer

Infini2 wrote: »

Go look at the proposed timetable they put out. That part is true theyre making journey times longer expecially around the bray area.

The DART timetable is, to be honest about it, being adjusted to reflect the reality on terms of actual running times.

Not a lot that can be done about Rosslare running times given the lack of paths around Bray Head and the lack of any passing facilities between Connolly and Bray.

Elemonator

Getting tired of being held to ransom for my daily commute.

Brendan Bendar

Elemonator wrote: »

Getting tired of being held to ransom for my daily commute.

That's what happens when the left get a foothold.

Plenty more where that came from.

When you have people like Brid Smith unequivally threw her lot in behind the drivers that kind of tells one all.

Then you have Murphy and Coppinger looking for new 'causes' to latch on to and what better than transport unrest to hang their hat on.

That's what happens when you elect a bunch of professional protestors who only want to react not proact.

That's how it rolls I'm afraid.

bk

end of the road, you are right that building more roads doesn't help. However building large park and rides on the outskirts of the M50, next to frequent and reliable DART and LUAS/Metro services encourages people to leave their car outside the M50 and take public transport into the city.

The reality is that outside of the M50, the population is far too dispersed and low density to support rail services.

The more realistic way too get people out of their cars is:

- Planning laws that encourage high density, quality apartments in the city and close to transport hubs and discourages one off, highly dispersed homes far from where people actually live.
- High quality, dependable and frequent public transport focused on those who live in these high density locations and thus encourages more people to choose those over distant one off houses.
- Park and rides connected to these high quality public transport for those who choose to live far outside the cities and want to commute in. Congestion charging and pedestrianisation to encourage them to leave their cars in these park and rides.
- Cars increasingly become electric, thus decreasing their environmental footprint.

What you are seeing here is the increasing urbanisation of Ireland.

LXFlyer

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

That's what happens when the left get a foothold.

Plenty more where that came from.

When you have people like Brid Smith unequivally threw her lot in behind the drivers that kind of tells one all.

Then you have Murphy and Coppinger looking for new 'causes' to latch on to and what better than transport unrest to hang their hat on.

That's what happens when you elect a bunch of professional protestors who only want to react not proact.

That's how it rolls I'm afraid.

With respect, the far left comprising SF, AAA and a few independents have no more than 34 seats out of 158.

Ireland in general did not vote for the far left so please stop trying to tell us that it did.

LXFlyer

Elemonator wrote: »

Getting tired of being held to ransom for my daily commute.

There has been no threat of strike action at the moment and hopefully it won't even come to that.

I suspect that this will get sorted out at the WRC.

Brendan Bendar

lxflyer wrote: »

With respect, the far left comprising SF, AAA and a few independents have no more than 34 seats out of 158.

Ireland in general did not vote for the far left so please stop trying to tell us that it did.

No I wasn't trying to imply that, I mentioned foothold, but maybe I could have phrased it better.

The point still stands though, these folk will definitely try to leverage public unrest in the transport industry, which is fertile ground for this kind of stuff, so it would appear.

end of the road

bk wrote: »

end of the road, you are right that building more roads doesn't help. However building large park and rides on the outskirts of the M50, next to frequent and reliable DART and LUAS/Metro services encourages people to leave their car outside the M50 and take public transport into the city.

i would agree, that can and should be done. nothing stopping that from being done apart from the will.

bk wrote: »

The reality is that outside of the M50, the population is far too dispersed and low density to support rail services.

the reality is nothing of the sort. all the radial lines from dublin are viable and are well used dispite the service being provided on some. could they be used more? of course. but ridding us of them will serve no purpose what soever, and suggesting such is in my view not what a supporter of public transport would do. on the radial corridors from dublin where both rail and road exist, both must continue to exist to offer a number of methods to encourage more use.

Geuze

I haven't read the details, but to think a union are against more services..........

Unions are always calling for more public services.

GM228

Geuze wrote: »

I haven't read the details, but to think a union are against more services..........

Unions are always calling for more public services.

I doubt the unions are against more services per say, but more likely they have issues with what's involved to bring about the extra services such as rostering, required drivers etc.

Infini

GM228 wrote: »

I doubt the unions are against more services per say, but more likely they have issues with what's involved to bring about the extra services such as rostering, required drivers etc.

One of the thinga I've heard is that while they trained more drivers theyre only replacing drivers that are gone. In addition if some calls in sick or a train fails that service is gone for the day such is how fine a line they got in terms of resources.

Elemonator

lxflyer wrote: »

There has been no threat of strike action at the moment and hopefully it won't even come to that.

I suspect that this will get sorted out at the WRC.

Tbh I don't think they should get a rise. We are seeing pay increases and fare increases yet no increase in frequency or quality of services. We had Nitelinks during the week before the recession but now the drivers refuse to do since they were proposed to be re-instated.

LXFlyer

Elemonator wrote: »

Tbh I don't think they should get a rise. We are seeing pay increases and fare increases yet no increase in frequency or quality of services. We had Nitelinks during the week before the recession but now the drivers refuse to do since they were proposed to be re-instated.

Did I say that I thought they should get a rise?

I'm afraid you have been rather misled about Nitelinks.

Midweek Nitelinks being withdrawn happened a long time before the current recession and simply reflected the fact that the numbers using them were minuscule.

There has not been any proposal to reinstate them, nor have drivers objected to them being reintroduced. So I don't know where you're getting these ideas from. There is already full agreement within DB to facilitate 24 hour routes but any increase in service requires additional PSO funding from the NTA.

Services in general were indeed cut back as passenger numbers plummeted and at the same time PSO funding was cut too.

Any increases in service levels requires additional PSO funding from the NTA who now dictate service level provision - the operators aren't going to run services without it anymore due to their poor financial health.

cdebru

Elemonator wrote: »

Tbh I don't think they should get a rise. We are seeing pay increases and fare increases yet no increase in frequency or quality of services. We had Nitelinks during the week before the recession but now the drivers refuse to do since they were proposed to be re-instated.

First off this is a thread about IE, who don't operate the nitelink service, secondly there is no staff issue with nitelinks, they are operated on a commercial basis when DB think they make commercial sense they can restore and expand the service anytime they want. Thirdly I don't think DB ever proposed to reinstate midweek nitelinks, they have proposed 24hour routes and the only hold up is funding not staff.

Elemonator

lxflyer wrote: »

Did I say that I thought they should get a rise?

I'm afraid you have been rather misled about Nitelinks.

Midweek Nitelinks being withdrawn happened a long time before the current recession and simply reflected the fact that the numbers using them were minuscule.

There has not been any proposal to reinstate them, nor have drivers objected to them being reintroduced. So I don't know where you're getting these ideas from. There is already full agreement within DB to facilitate 24 hour routes but any increase in service requires additional PSO funding from the NTA.

Services in general were indeed cut back as passenger numbers plummeted and at the same time PSO funding was cut too.

Any increases in service levels requires additional PSO funding from the NTA who now dictate service level provision - the operators aren't going to run services without it anymore due to their poor financial health.

That post was not targeted at you. I haven't even quoted you.
I was offering my opinion, that is what this forum is for.

I can tell you there would be huge demand for Nitelinks on Thrusday. From what I've seen in college, Thursday has become the new beginning of the weekend. A lot of people take Friday off too.

I'm nearly sure I saw it in the paper months ago that there would be a new 24 hour bus service. Then read on only to see the drivers were objecting.

LXFlyer

Elemonator wrote: »

That post was not targeted at you. I haven't even quoted you.
I was offering my opinion, that is what this forum is for.

I can tell you there would be huge demand for Nitelinks on Thrusday. From what I've seen in college, Thursday has become the new beginning of the weekend. A lot of people take Friday off too.

I'm nearly sure I saw it in the paper months ago that there would be a new 24 hour bus service. Then read on only to see the drivers were objecting.

Actually you did quote my post in your post above, hence my comment.

I'm afraid you are wrong. There was a suggestion some time ago by DB that they (in conjunction with the NTA) that they would look at introducing some 24 hour services.

However no plans have yet been developed nor have drivers raised objections. There is full internal agreement for some time with regard to operating 24 hour routes with the unions.

The issue is one of money - any such services would require additional PSO subvention from the NTA and right now there are far more pressing needs such as expanding the existing daytime service (including additional orbital routes) that require it.

I think we will see 24 hour routes developing rather than Nitelinks (they're an out of date business model), but only after existing daytime routes have expanded.

Elemonator

lxflyer wrote: »

Actually you did quote my post in your post above, hence my comment.

I'm afraid you are wrong. There was a suggestion some time ago by DB that they (in conjunction with the NTA) that they would look at introducing some 24 hour services.

However no plans have yet been developed nor have drivers raised objections. There is full internal agreement for some time with regard to operating 24 hour routes with the unions.

The issue is one of money - any such services would require additional PSO subvention from the NTA and right now there are far more pressing needs such as expanding the existing daytime service (including additional orbital routes) that require it.

I think we will see 24 hour routes developing rather than Nitelinks (they're an out of date business model), but only after existing daytime routes have expanded.

Apologies, my post quoting yours was hidden for some reason.

Jamie2k9

Unions have pulled out of talks on the new timetable!